| CURRENT EVENTS Israel is about to unleash some hell...

['65 Cobra]

What money are we giving Iran?

Other than the six billion just released? Or, the money sent when Obama was leaving office?

Obama sent $1.7 billion ALL IN CASH. Biden sent another $230 million or thereabouts within the first month of his presidency and just last month the $6 billion that Terry mentioned. I mean really this is pretty commonly known. And it's fungible, so even if it's "earmarked" for humanitarian expenses, it simply frees up other cash to pay for weapons.

ElephantStomp - All the killing is horrible for sure, but what sets it apart is the means and methods. I mean there are international norms and standards in war even though war is insanity. Are you aware, they went apartment to apartment just killing innocent people including women and children? Are you aware, they paraglided in to the music festival and just started mowing innocents down? Are you aware they video'ed beheading children and killing women? And they keep hostages in their ammunition depots as shields. Again, war and killing is horrible but committing grisley acts on innocents intentionally and specifically to create fear and terror...

There is a difference in ideology. Did you know that the Israelis have given citizenship to Arabs in Gaza? And they get full benefits - even if a male provider in the family commits a suicide bombing against Israel, the family still gets survivor benefits.

 

[ElephantStomp]

First of all, I hope I never have to debate Terry or It Takes Eleven on this forum.

Secondly, our open borders are openly inviting something like what is happening to Israel to happen to us.

Thirdly, as it stands now with knowing that American's were killed and that Iran is involved; how involved do you want America to get in Israel's war.

You won’t have to debate them, y’all are on the same side.

I’m 1000% against us being involved outside of what we’re doing now

 

[ElephantStomp]

Obama sent $1.7 billion ALL IN CASH. Biden sent another $230 million or thereabouts within the first month of his presidency and just last month the $6 billion that Terry mentioned. I mean really this is pretty commonly known. And it's fungible, so even if it's "earmarked" for humanitarian expenses, it simply frees up other cash to pay for weapons.

ElephantStomp - All the killing is horrible for sure, but what sets it apart is the means and methods. I mean there are international norms and standards in war even though war is insanity. Are you aware, they went apartment to apartment just killing innocent people including women and children? Are you aware, they paraglided in to the music festival and just started mowing innocents down? Are you aware they video'ed beheading children and killing women? And they keep hostages in their ammunition depots as shields. Again, war and killing is horrible but committing grisley acts on innocents intentionally and specifically to create fear and terror...

There is a difference in ideology. Did you know that the Israelis have given citizenship to Arabs in Gaza? And they get full benefits - even if a male provider in the family commits a suicide bombing against Israel, the family still gets survivor benefits.

The 6 billion didn’t go to Iran, America has to give permission for any money going to anything. Qatar having that money and America having to give permission for it to be spent doesn’t free up anything. That 6 billion hasn’t even spent yet, unspent money isn’t fungible. Obviously Iran provides Hamas with a lot, but this trying to blame Biden is idiotic.

In the 2014 Gaza War Israel killed over 1400 civilians and 500 of them were children. I’m not excusing what Hamas did and continues to do, but Israel isn’t innocent of grisly attacks on innocents. Take the Al Aqsa Mosque, it’s significant to Jews, Christian’s, and Muslims and Israel repeatedly kills, kidnaps, and arrests Muslims there. Do Palestinians not deserve to the same freedom as Jews in Israel?

Different ideology for sure. Palestinians aren’t free there, but that’s ignored. Let’s take the current goings on, Hamas did the attacks, but Israel is killing innocents just like Hamas did, but Hamas is the only bad guy in this?

 

['65 Cobra]

That $6 billion is absolutely for Iran. Just because Qatar holds it means nothing. Iran takes it out by request. Further the State Department confirmed today that that $6 billion has NOT been frozen and there are no such plans so it is Iran's money. And yes that is fungible. So you decided to simply ignore the other $2 billion in your argument?

Israel does not produce war strategy that intentionally targets innocent citizens as part of the strategy. Hamas does (as does Hezbollah). It is an integral part of their strategy - it is not collateral.

Show me your evidence that Israel is killing Muslims intentionally at that Mosque.

Hamas executed an unprovoked attack, and NOT on military targets, but intentionally and specifically on innocent citizens (including free people from numerous other countries that have nothing to do with this conflict) focusing on women and children.

Iran led all of the strategy and planning for this attack and provided the weapons. Hamas carried it out. Iran has publically and expressly stated that it's goal is wipe Israel off the map and kill all the jews. Again, in the public domain. Nobody is claiming Israel is squeaky clean but there are degrees in these things and there is intent and yes, there is a difference.

Not sure continuing to debate you will be constructive as you seem to have something in particular against Israel/Jews that produces a biased perspective. You are arguing things are difficult to defend.

 

[Justneedme81]

Iran was involved in this.. Russian too so I'll say this. I think they want world war 3 to break out l.

 

[XXL TideFan]

Iran was involved in this.. Russian too so I'll say this. I think they want world war 3 to break out l.

Russia isn’t the boogeyman. They are using their production for Ukraine and buying from abroad as well.

 

[Justneedme81]

Russia isn’t the boogeyman. They are using their production for Ukraine and buying from abroad as well.

I'm trying to find a way to word this carefully in a way where I'm not trying to say too much or what not... Iran and Russian are involved...

 

[XXL TideFan]

I'm trying to find a way to word this carefully in a way where I'm not trying to say too much or what not... Iran and Russian are involved...

No need to be careful. You can’t offend me.

 

[ElephantStomp]

That $6 billion is absolutely for Iran. Just because Qatar holds it means nothing. Iran takes it out by request. Further the State Department confirmed today that that $6 billion has NOT been frozen and there are no such plans so it is Iran's money. And yes that is fungible. So you decided to simply ignore the other $2 billion in your argument?

Israel does not produce war strategy that intentionally targets innocent citizens as part of the strategy. Hamas does (as does Hezbollah). It is an integral part of their strategy - it is not collateral.

Show me your evidence that Israel is killing Muslims intentionally at that Mosque.

Hamas executed an unprovoked attack, and NOT on military targets, but intentionally and specifically on innocent citizens (including free people from numerous other countries that have nothing to do with this conflict) focusing on women and children.

Iran led all of the strategy and planning for this attack and provided the weapons. Hamas carried it out. Iran has publically and expressly stated that it's goal is wipe Israel off the map and kill all the jews. Again, in the public domain. Nobody is claiming Israel is squeaky clean but there are degrees in these things and there is intent and yes, there is a difference.

Not sure continuing to debate you will be constructive as you seem to have something in particular against Israel/Jews that produces a biased perspective. You are arguing things are difficult to defend.

It’s not frozen, the Treasury dept oks all purchases with that money, Iran doesn’t take it out by request, it’s not fungible.

Israel doesn’t target civilians well those over 1400 civilians and 500 children didn’t die by themselves.

I never said Iran isn’t involved, I know they’re involved, they’ve said so. I also didn’t say what Hamas is doing is right, I simply said Israel isn’t the innocent government that people want to believe.

I’ve got nothing against Jews, I’m not antisemitic. You do know you can be against Israel’s government and not be against Jewish people right?

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Here I’ll explain myself and position clearly for you- I don’t like innocent people dying for any reason, but to say Israel is innocent is wrong on many levels. Palestine should be free.

The Israeli government and Hamas should drop their weapons and fight hand to hand until there’s a winner.

I don’t support Hamas’ kidnapping of innocent women and children, I don’t support the raping of women in any country or society.

My opinion on the government of Israel changed drastically in the 2014 Gaza War after they killed over 1400 Palestinian civilians including 500 children.

Better clarification for you or no?

Instead of commentary, I'll use question marks to clear up whether you've been asked a question.

Were you aware that Hamas' tunnel system was intentionally developed under residential areas?
Were you aware of the specific advance warnings are provided to Gaza citizens ahead of strikes to give them time to evacuate?
That these advance warnings are not unusual, before or after that conflict?
That Hamas tortured and murdered their Palestinian political rivals during the 2014 Gaza War?
That Hamas was storing rockets in UN schools used for refugees?

Israel takes incredible steps to avoid civilian casualties, and it affects their effectiveness and puts their military at greater risk for doing so. I agree that when something of this magnitude occurs - I've read the concert slaughter was the largest group killing of Jews since The Holocaust - the gloves come off and military objectives are pursued with less concern for collateral damage. Think in terms of the rescue portion of Black Hawk Down, compared to the pre-crisis use of AC-130's to keep the warlords in line. Huge difference in rules of engagement. I digress, but when one of the two AC-130's assigned to Somalia went down over the Indian Ocean during a routine test fire procedure, the sister ship was recalled due to cost concerns. A buddy of mine was a crewman on the recalled AC-130. He maintains to this day that if they had been in theater, there would have been no losses. Their slow, arcing overwatch would've kept everyone away. He hated Les Aspin for years over that, but later learned Colin Powell had made the call.


.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

Here I’ll explain myself and position clearly for you- I don’t like innocent people dying for any reason, but to say Israel is innocent is wrong on many levels. Palestine should be free.

The Israeli government and Hamas should drop their weapons and fight hand to hand until there’s a winner.

I don’t support Hamas’ kidnapping of innocent women and children, I don’t support the raping of women in any country or society.

My opinion on the government of Israel changed drastically in the 2014 Gaza War after they killed over 1400 Palestinian civilians including 500 children.

Better clarification for you or no?

You're a fucking moron.

All those deaths lay at the feet of Hamas, and the Palestinians who "voted" them into power.

Hamas was embedded in the civ pop and firing rockets into Israel behind human shields, you fuckwit.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

Chew on this for a second...

One uses its weapons to protect their citizens.
One uses its citizens to protect its weapons.

Am I off there?

 

[ElephantStomp]

You're a fucking moron.

All those deaths lay at the feet of Hamas, and the Palestinians who "voted" them into power.

Hamas was embedded in the civ pop and firing rockets into Israel behind human shields, you fuckwit.

Good talk tough guy.

It’s easier for you to say you’ve got no clue what the hell you’re talking about rather than the immature unintelligent shit you just spewed.

Palestinians didn’t “vote” anybody in, they don’t have a country, the parts they claim are occupied by Israel. The other thing is the “government” isn’t Hamas, it’s called Palestinian Liberation Organization.

So, I’d suggest the next time you feel like calling somebody a “fucking moron” and a “fucktwit” I’d make sure I knew what I was talking about, try reading that might help

 

[ElephantStomp]

Instead of commentary, I'll use question marks to clear up whether you've been asked a question.

Were you aware that Hamas' tunnel system was intentionally developed under residential areas?
Were you aware of the specific advance warnings are provided to Gaza citizens ahead of strikes to give them time to evacuate?
That these advance warnings are not unusual, before or after that conflict?
That Hamas tortured and murdered their Palestinian political rivals during the 2014 Gaza War?
That Hamas was storing rockets in UN schools used for refugees?

Israel takes incredible steps to avoid civilian casualties, and it affects their effectiveness and puts their military at greater risk for doing so. I agree that when something of this magnitude occurs - I've read the concert slaughter was the largest group killing of Jews since The Holocaust - the gloves come off and military objectives are pursued with less concern for collateral damage. Think in terms of the rescue portion of Black Hawk Down, compared to the pre-crisis use of AC-130's to keep the warlords in line. Huge difference in rules of engagement. I digress, but when one of the two AC-130's assigned to Somalia went down over the Indian Ocean during a routine test fire procedure, the sister ship was recalled due to cost concerns. A buddy of mine was a crewman on the recalled AC-130. He maintains to this day that if they had been in theater, there would have been no losses. Their slow, arcing overwatch would've kept everyone away. He hated Les Aspin for years over that, but later learned Colin Powell had made the call.


.

I knew about some, but not all of the things you mentioned.

So, Israel can kill whoever they want because the gloves come off, but the Palestinian side can’t, got it.

Thanks to your buddy for his service. I’ve always thought Powell was a jackass, but that’s just one person’s opinion

 

[ElephantStomp]

@TerryP Watching an interview this morning while drinking coffee changed my mind about Ukraine or made me rethink it.

The US supports Ukraine against an occupier, but also supports the occupier (Israel), my mind has been changed about giving Ukraine help

 

[TerryP]

@TerryP Watching an interview this morning while drinking coffee changed my mind about Ukraine or made me rethink it.

The US supports Ukraine against an occupier, but also supports the occupier (Israel), my mind has been changed about giving Ukraine help

Ya want to talk about Nigerian Christians? Actual genocide.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

So, Israel can kill whoever they want because the gloves come off, but the Palestinian side can’t, got it.

Clearly not what I said, quite a leap. Any action in Gaza will be completely different than what Hamas just did.

 

[ElephantStomp]

Clearly not what I said, quite a leap. Any action in Gaza will be completely different than what Hamas just did.

It’s not different by any means. Israel has bombed hospitals, universities, residential towers, markets, and an UN building. They’ve closed off Gaza from food, electricity, and such. They are killing indiscriminately, they’re absolutely no different than Hamas other than one has the backing of the US.

 

[ElephantStomp]

Ya want to talk about Nigerian Christians? Actual genocide.

That is genocide, I agree.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

It’s not different by any means. Israel has bombed hospitals, universities, residential towers, markets, and an UN building. They’ve closed off Gaza from food, electricity, and such. They are killing indiscriminately, they’re absolutely no different than Hamas other than one has the backing of the US.

We'll just disagree.