| FTBL Stick with JPW or give McElroy a shot?

Stick with JPW or give Mcelroy a shot?


  • Total voters
    206
I

imported_porkchop

Thread Starter
I voted McElroy but only with the thought of giving him some snaps to see how he does. Doing that will give us an experienced backup if something happens to JPW. We've seen in the past how the lack of a backup QB has just killed us.

Giving Greg some snaps could also have a positive effect on JPW. It may cause him to up his play a bit.

But if anyone is asking should we replace JPW I am saying no.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
Bones82 said:
I say give McElroy a shot. Saban swaps out underperformers at every other position. Why not QB?

I'm curious. Who in particular are you talking about here? Is that statement meant to apply to cases where other players who have been in competition for those positions earned the right to play more? Progression and under-performance are not the same thing. He's (CNS) said it, almost verbatim, more than once this year.

I might add, our depth chart is still a work in progress. Our RB rotation mirrors what he's done for years in the college ranks.
 
G

Guest

Thread Starter
TerryP said:
Bones82 said:
I say give McElroy a shot. Saban swaps out underperformers at every other position. Why not QB?

I'm curious. Who in particular are you talking about here? Is that statement meant to apply to cases where other players who have been in competition for those positions earned the right to play more? Progression and under-performance are not the same thing. He's (CNS) said it, almost verbatim, more than once this year.

I might add, our depth chart is still a work in progress. Our RB rotation mirrors what he's done for years in the college ranks.

Coffee and Upchurch had more carries than Grant. Although Grant performed he obviously was not performing properly (hitting holes, etc.). L. Mitchell was replaced due to performance and then he replaced M. Johnson due to performance.
 
G

Guest

Thread Starter
porkchop said:
I voted McElroy but only with the thought of giving him some snaps to see how he does. Doing that will give us an experienced backup if something happens to JPW. We've seen in the past how the lack of a backup QB has just killed us.

Giving Greg some snaps could also have a positive effect on JPW. It may cause him to up his play a bit.

But if anyone is asking should we replace JPW I am saying no.

It is worth a shot to see what the kid can do. Just from watching the Spring game and a few practices I would say McElroy has a stronger arm and has performed well in his limited play time.
 

Colin

Verified Member
Sideline Club
I wouldn't mind letting him play , but definitely not to replace JPW for the rest of the year, if THAT is the inclination that you're getting at (based on previous games) then that's probably the most absurd gesture i've heard all year. I doubt McElroy has learned the offense any more than JPW has , especially by sitting on the sidelines.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
Bones82 said:
Coffee and Upchurch had more carries than Grant. Although Grant performed he obviously was not performing properly (hitting holes, etc.). L. Mitchell was replaced due to performance and then he replaced M. Johnson due to performance.

Both situations Saban has addressed in detail. It was due to under performance by Grant. It was due to what the other two were accomplishing.

With the defensive backs, that isn't so much under performance as much as it is finding the right combinations. The last few games we've been playing a lot of nickel and dime packages which moves Castille to the star position. At that point, it requires a mixture of substitutions. Again, shuffling of the depth charts.

I'd encourage you to listen to some of the pressers he's held over the last few weeks. It'll take an 30 minutes or so of your time, but you'll see that the notions that are being spread about lack of performances by the media and posters around the 'net are merely suppositions and not so much based on fact.

Heck, there is an article I saw linked earlier today titled "Saban critical of offensive play calling." He practically said the exact opposite in the presser post game.

As to the JPW poll question...we are talking a QB with experience reading different schemes vs a QB that doesn't have much, if any. I've been impressed with GM since the day he signed. There are a lot of good stories I could share about him, things he's said in conversations that would impress each and every person who read them.

By no means am I discounting how JPW's play has leveled off in the last three weeks. That being said, those problems, at least a lot of them, would not be solved by a new guy taking snaps. He'd still be dealing with a lot of the same situations.

As example, the Utah shuffle play that ended in an interception Saturday...with GM the play along the line still would have broken down. It was a bad decision, no doubt. But, inexperience in the back field could cost us games. So far, it hasn't been a situation where our QB has lost a game for us. The two losses have come from defensive breakdowns.
 

Colin

Verified Member
Sideline Club
like the article that was posted here earlier says...

saban said:
"I think everybody needs to understand, somebody doesn't have to mess up for somebody else to play," Saban said. "You understand? It's called competition."

Prince Hall started ahead of McClain because he did a better job of learning a complex Houston offense, according to Saban. That knowledge was especially important since nickel and dime alignments often left Hall as the lone linebacker.

Glen Coffee replaced Grant on the first team, started strong and finished with a career-high 121 yards on 30 carries, the most for Alabama tailbacks this season.

"Any one of us can get in there and run the ball 30 times," Coffee said. "I just happened to be that person."

Grant entered on the Tide's opening drive, but did not run the ball again after recovering his first-quarter fumble. He finished with three attempts for 12 yards, a steep drop for the offense's leading rusher.

"We intended to play Terry Grant more today," Saban said Saturday. "We need to play him and get his production back to where it was earlier in the season, because he can be a very effective player for us. But he didn't do anything wrong."
 

bamarooski

Extra Point Club
When we went up 23-0. IMHO that would have been the time to put Greg in.Then and if we laid an egg in the 2nd Quarter then put JPW back in!Anyway we laid an egg for the next 2 an a half! and changed nothing!
So we learned nothing!RTR!
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
bamarooski said:
When we went up 23-0. IMHO that would have been the time to put Greg in.Then and if we laid an egg in the 2nd Quarter then put JPW back in!Anyway we laid an egg for the next 2 an a half! and changed nothing!
So we learned nothing!RTR!

The problem with that, which was also talked about in detail during the presser, was that a offense like Houston has makes a 23 point lead a very, very small lead.
 

bamarooski

Extra Point Club
TerryP said:
bamarooski said:
When we went up 23-0. IMHO that would have been the time to put Greg in.Then and if we laid an egg in the 2nd Quarter then put JPW back in!Anyway we laid an egg for the next 2 an a half! and changed nothing!
So we learned nothing!RTR!

The problem with that, which was also talked about in detail during the presser, was that a offense like Houston has makes a 23 point lead a very, very small lead.
I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!
 
G

Guest

Thread Starter
TerryP said:
Bones82 said:
Coffee and Upchurch had more carries than Grant. Although Grant performed he obviously was not performing properly (hitting holes, etc.). L. Mitchell was replaced due to performance and then he replaced M. Johnson due to performance.

Both situations Saban has addressed in detail. It was due to under performance by Grant. It was due to what the other two were accomplishing.

With the defensive backs, that isn't so much under performance as much as it is finding the right combinations. The last few games we've been playing a lot of nickel and dime packages which moves Castille to the star position. At that point, it requires a mixture of substitutions. Again, shuffling of the depth charts.

I'd encourage you to listen to some of the pressers he's held over the last few weeks. It'll take an 30 minutes or so of your time, but you'll see that the notions that are being spread about lack of performances by the media and posters around the 'net are merely suppositions and not so much based on fact.

Heck, there is an article I saw linked earlier today titled "Saban critical of offensive play calling." He practically said the exact opposite in the presser post game.

As to the JPW poll question...we are talking a QB with experience reading different schemes vs a QB that doesn't have much, if any. I've been impressed with GM since the day he signed. There are a lot of good stories I could share about him, things he's said in conversations that would impress each and every person who read them.

By no means am I discounting how JPW's play has leveled off in the last three weeks. That being said, those problems, at least a lot of them, would not be solved by a new guy taking snaps. He'd still be dealing with a lot of the same situations.

As example, the Utah shuffle play that ended in an interception Saturday...with GM the play along the line still would have broken down. It was a bad decision, no doubt. But, inexperience in the back field could cost us games. So far, it hasn't been a situation where our QB has lost a game for us. The two losses have come from defensive breakdowns.
He fumbled twice in the AU game last year and AU scored two TD's with a short field. Same deal with UGA and FSU. He may not have thrown a pick and had it returned for a TD but he has certainly put the defense in difficult situations.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
bamarooski said:
I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!

OK. That leads me to this question. A different look...how? They are virtually the same type QB's. Shula went after GM because it was his prototypical QB. (no pun with the pro... intended.)

Fanuzzi would be a different look...but still, same package. Going to GM wouldn't have brought us the same results as say...the switch from Weatherford to Lee did in the FSU game.
 

WDE1313

Verified Member
Registered
My Brother-in-law is an aggie and got a chance to see both future ua QBs in HS and he told me that Mcelroy was good but he was really impressed with the Fanuzzi kid. Has NS commented on Fanuzzi yet?
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
Bones82 said:
He fumbled twice in the AU game last year and AU scored two TD's with a short field. Same deal with UGA and FSU. He may not have thrown a pick and had it returned for a TD but he has certainly put the defense in difficult situations.

Now it sure seems to me you are reaching a bit. I see you keep pointing to JPW in a lot of your posts here. But, let's just address this small paragraph here.

Auburn last year with 2 fumbles. That has nothing to do with what is going on this year.

You used that Auburn reference in light of giving them a short field and then you say the same thing happened with Georgia and FSU.

There was a fumble in the FSU game at the 5 yard line which was immediately followed by an Alabam 91 yard trip down the field to draw us within 14 points. The other two scoring drives were 67 yards and 70 yards. That is far from a QB putting us in a bad position on those two drives.

Then Georgia? That didn't happen, at all, in that game.

1st TD, 70 yard drive.
1st FG 45 yard field goal after a 42 yard drive.
2nd TD 73 yard drive.
2nd FG 47 yard field goal after a 31 yard drive.

Out of 7 scoring drives, only one was because of a fumble. And that fumble was in a series where JPW was sacked twice, the second one resulting in a fumble. Synopsis? The problem didn't start with JPW on that fumble, it started with the OL not doing their job.

---------

I've said more than once that he's leveled off and needs to improve. Along with that, I've mentioned that it hasn't all been JPW's fault.

We've had problems with snaps in shotgun formations breaking his concentration. We've had problems with loss of containment by the OL putting him in situations where he's throwing the ball away or didn't have time to hit the receivers correctly.

I understand your frustration but placing it all on JPW isn't a fair or accurate assessment.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
WDE1313 said:
My Brother-in-law is an aggie and got a chance to see both future ua QBs in HS and he told me that Mcelroy was good but he was really impressed with the Fanuzzi kid. Has NS commented on Fanuzzi yet?

Not a lot. He's seen action in one game, and it was only for a few plays burning his shirt. I don't know why, but Saban historically hasn't been much of a guy who uses red shirts.

Personal opinion is the staff thinks NF is going to grow some before he sees a lot of the playing field. He came in about the same height as McElroy, but lighter.
 

Outlaw

Verified Member
Century Club
I also wonder why people don't point out the bad snaps as much. A low or high snap, one where you have to reach down or jump up, totally breaks your concentration as well as timing. I've seen quite a few errant snaps.
 

TideAlum05

Verified Member
Extra Point Club
TerryP, thank you for posting. Everything you have said has been on point. Blaming the UGA and FSU games solely on JPW is absolutely absurd. Did you watch the UGA game? He played ok in this game. The game against FSU is where JPW can legitimately take the most criticism. Keep in mind that FSU has a very good D and we had no running game. Man the expectations on JPW were apparently way too high pre season. Don't get me wrong, I thought he'd play better than he has too, but we're talking about a college QB who has zero shot at playing on Sundays.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
TideAlum05 said:
TerryP, thank you for posting. Everything you have said has been on point. Blaming the UGA and FSU games solely on JPW is absolutely absurd. Did you watch the UGA game? He played ok in this game. The game against FSU is where JPW can legitimately take the most criticism. Keep in mind that FSU has a very good D and we had no running game. Man the expectations on JPW were apparently way too high pre season. Don't get me wrong, I thought he'd play better than he has too, but we're talking about a college QB who has zero shot at playing on Sundays.

I fall into that category as well. I expected a lot more, and have been disappointed in his performance.

I have no idea about Sunday's, but if he repeats this years performance next year, you are right. (GM was making business contacts in Alabama before he even stepped foot on campus...it's not that he won't try to play on Sunday's, but he's already working on his back-up plan as well. The same can be said for JPW. Heck, with his family and their connections to UA for almost 4 decades now, he's in a different boat than GM.)

All that said, if you would have asked people about Jason Campbell playing on Sunday's after his Jr. year what would they have said?
 
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