| FTBL Stick with JPW or give McElroy a shot?

[Outlaw]

TerryP, thank you for posting. Everything you have said has been on point. Blaming the UGA and FSU games solely on JPW is absolutely absurd. Did you watch the UGA game? He played ok in this game. The game against FSU is where JPW can legitimately take the most criticism. Keep in mind that FSU has a very good D and we had no running game. Man the expectations on JPW were apparently way too high pre season. Don't get me wrong, I thought he'd play better than he has too, but we're talking about a college QB who has zero shot at playing on Sundays.

I fall into that category as well. I expected a lot more, and have been disappointed in his performance.

I have no idea about Sunday's, but if he repeats this years performance next year, you are right. (GM was making business contacts in Alabama before he even stepped foot on campus...it's not that he won't try to play on Sunday's, but he's already working on his back-up plan as well. The same can be said for JPW. Heck, with his family and their connections to UA for almost 4 decades now, he's in a different boat than GM.)

All that said, if you would have asked people about Jason Campbell playing on Sunday's after his Jr. year what would they have said?

Very solid point. I remembered always thanking Auburn for playing JC, until that senior year.

 

[TideAlum05]

TerryP, thank you for posting. Everything you have said has been on point. Blaming the UGA and FSU games solely on JPW is absolutely absurd. Did you watch the UGA game? He played ok in this game. The game against FSU is where JPW can legitimately take the most criticism. Keep in mind that FSU has a very good D and we had no running game. Man the expectations on JPW were apparently way too high pre season. Don't get me wrong, I thought he'd play better than he has too, but we're talking about a college QB who has zero shot at playing on Sundays.

I fall into that category as well. I expected a lot more, and have been disappointed in his performance.

I have no idea about Sunday's, but if he repeats this years performance next year, you are right. (GM was making business contacts in Alabama before he even stepped foot on campus...it's not that he won't try to play on Sunday's, but he's already working on his back-up plan as well. The same can be said for JPW. Heck, with his family and their connections to UA for almost 4 decades now, he's in a different boat than GM.)

All that said, if you would have asked people about Jason Campbell playing on Sunday's after his Jr. year what would they have said?

Like I said Terry, you're always on point. No one in their right mind would've guessed he'd be a starting QB in the NFL right now.

 

[Guest]

I'm really undecided. On one hand, I'm worried on how the team will react with a new QB. While at the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing GM get a shot at the starting spot.

 

[DustyG]

Here is my opinion for what it is worth. I doubt that McElroy will ever throw a meaningful pass while at the University of Alabama, barring an injury to JP or Nick Fanuzzi. McElroy wasn't Saban's recruit, and probably isn't hands down ahead of Fanuzzi in his developement the way JP IS handsdown ahead of McElroy. JP will be our Quarterback for the remainder of this season and all of next season unless he gets hurt or one of the others has a tremendous burst in understanding the offense. The following year, Star Jackson and Fanuzzi will battle for the starting job, leaving McElroy for the third string. Again, this is only my opinion, but I don't think McElroy will ever be the guy.

 

[BamaCoast]

I think TerryP made a very good point stating the similarities between JPW and GM and making the point that fanuzzi would bring a different look. I have not been to a practice to watch fanuzzi however I have seen some of his high school video and he looks very strong. He is very mobile with a strong arm and seems to be accurate Just something to consider.

 

[TerryP]

Here is my opinion for what it is worth. I doubt that McElroy will ever throw a meaningful pass while at the University of Alabama, barring an injury to JP or Nick Fanuzzi. McElroy wasn't Saban's recruit, and probably isn't hands down ahead of Fanuzzi in his developement the way JP IS handsdown ahead of McElroy. JP will be our Quarterback for the remainder of this season and all of next season unless he gets hurt or one of the others has a tremendous burst in understanding the offense. The following year, Star Jackson and Fanuzzi will battle for the starting job, leaving McElroy for the third string. Again, this is only my opinion, but I don't think McElroy will ever be the guy.

That may be true.

He did start a Sr. his last year at LSU with Russell sitting in the wings. It was his senior year before JR actually amounted to a good college QB.

If you look at this time at Mich. St and LSU, you'll see he was in favor of a QB that didn't lose the game...which would in turn favor GM in his Sr. year.

A bigger question will be how long it takes GM to graduate. I don't see him transferring, but do see him graduating in 3.5 years, at the most.

 

[Guest]

I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!

OK. That leads me to this question. A different look...how? They are virtually the same type QB's. Shula went after GM because it was his prototypical QB. (no pun with the pro... intended.)

Fanuzzi would be a different look...but still, same package. Going to GM wouldn't have brought us the same results as say...the switch from Weatherford to Lee did in the FSU game.

It could have. How do you know? Are you God? Are you a psychic? Lee ran the ball some but he was thrashing our secondary.

 

[TerryP]

I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!

OK. That leads me to this question. A different look...how? They are virtually the same type QB's. Shula went after GM because it was his prototypical QB. (no pun with the pro... intended.)

Fanuzzi would be a different look...but still, same package. Going to GM wouldn't have brought us the same results as say...the switch from Weatherford to Lee did in the FSU game.

It could have. How do you know? Are you God? Are you a psychic? Lee ran the ball some but he was thrashing our secondary.

Simple football. When Lee was put in the game in the second quarter he started off running the ball. It was a threat that Weatherford didn't possess. In fact, he accounted for over 60% of FSU's total rushing yards, almost twice as much as the other three combined.

How do I know GM wouldn't have offered the same threat as Lee? Because, he's of the same skill set as JPW but not as developed and neither offer the same threat of running as Lee does.

The God and psychic comments I find boorish, pedomorphic. I suppose I can see how you might be bollixed up right now. You've made several comments today about the last three games we've played and your premise versus what happened in the games were polar opposites.

 

[Colin]

I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!

OK. That leads me to this question. A different look...how? They are virtually the same type QB's. Shula went after GM because it was his prototypical QB. (no pun with the pro... intended.)

Fanuzzi would be a different look...but still, same package. Going to GM wouldn't have brought us the same results as say...the switch from Weatherford to Lee did in the FSU game.

It could have. How do you know? Are you God? Are you a psychic? Lee ran the ball some but he was thrashing our secondary.

Why is there always a QB crew ready to get them replaced? The kid learns a new offense messes up once or twice and you expect a rookie to do way better? Are you God Bones? Are you a psychic? Are you Coach Nick Saban? Have you won a national championship? If so was it in the SEC ?

 

[Outlaw]

I get that Terry,but they adjusted to JPW and maybe just maybe the QB change would have given us a diff. look! It doesn't matter now. We changed nothing, so we didn't learn anything!

OK. That leads me to this question. A different look...how? They are virtually the same type QB's. Shula went after GM because it was his prototypical QB. (no pun with the pro... intended.)

Fanuzzi would be a different look...but still, same package. Going to GM wouldn't have brought us the same results as say...the switch from Weatherford to Lee did in the FSU game.

It could have. How do you know? Are you God? Are you a psychic? Lee ran the ball some but he was thrashing our secondary.

So, let me get this straight. Houston's QBs pretty much scrambled at will for "over 7 yards" all day, yet Lee only ran the ball some?

Lee averaged over 5 yards a pop that game. 3 out of his first 6 plays were rushes.

Lee rushed 6 times for 7 or more yards.
Houston's QBs as a whole rushed 3 times for 7 or more.

Lee shredded us through the air as well as doing damage on the ground. Given that 128 of his 224 yards through the air came on two plays.

 

[bamarooski]

WOW I did not intend to be such a lighting rod! Simple put we changed nothing so we learned nothing!
The thread was hypothetical anyway! Since no matter what happens with the exception of being up 35 plus points will Mac get a shot! I can go on only what I've seen and I saw Mac lead us to a TD in his only few snaps! Granted it was against WC. Anyway let's get ready to kick Ole Piss ass!RTR!

 

[Guest]

This is all I will say. The limited time we have seen GM he has been very sharp in the spring game and also in the WC game. My personal believe is that he has a stronger arm and is actually taller than JPW. If those 2 different physical tools helps him hit receivers in stride why not try him? JPW has regressed since the beggining of the season. That is mostly due to competition I believe but if he does not step it up we are in a great deal of trouble with the tougher part of our schedule remaining. We will see what happens on down the road. No one can sit there and say that they are happy with the QB play. It is so inconsistent that it is ridiculous. Maybe GM will not throw the ball off of his back foot. That alone would make a huge difference.

 

[TerryP]

First, a suggestion. It's high time we stop using the Western Carolina game as a reference point to how the team is doing. Whether it be the QB, the OL, DB's, you name it.

I've seen both practice, both up close in person in pads and out of pads. I've seen strong points and weak points with both. They are virtually the same player at comparable points in their careers. (RS Frosh to RS Frosh)

The message board genre' is designed for voicing opinions. The problem with that is when you are talking about a sport, in this case performance in football, there is empirical data that can quickly debunk ones opinions.

Let's take the opinion that the QB play, in this case JPW, has "...regressed since the beginning of the season."

The facts are these...

Houston: 15 for 27 2 Td's 1 Int. (46 rushes) .555
FSU : 28 for 53 2 Td's 0 Int. (27) .528
UGA : 17 for 35 0 and 0 **** (45) .485
Arkansas: 24 for 45 4 TD's 2 Int. (34) .533
Vandy: 14 for 28 0 Td's 1 Int (48 ) .500
WCU: The team was 25 for 34 with 1 TD. (44) .735

**** Georgia was one of the worst games in his career.

But, as you can see it's not a case of regression in the QB position, it is the point the play has leveled off. Again, the notion of it being "so inconsistent that it is ridiculous" is an opinion, but isn't supported by what has happened on the field of play.

I haven't seen a soul, on any forum, say they were pleased with the play out of our QB position. It's more along the lines of expectations not being met and that disappointment being taken out on the QB. It happens with just about every football teams fan base.

Why? It's easy to take a shot at the guy that is leading the offense because he is the figure head.

The main problem with that is these people are taking one person and blaming them on the results of eleven guys. While it is criticism, it's not sound criticism.

Personally, I find myself in the same boat our staff is right now. I can see things that need to improve, but I can also see it isn't one players fault. Interestingly enough, the HC said the very same thing yesterday in the presser. In that case, accusing the press of creating a QB controversy when there isn't one.

Now, we have a segment of fans doing the same. I see it related to the print media in one of two ways. One, they are either repeating what they are reading in the print media. Or, they are making judgments on things without a factual basis to support them. (Which, ironically, is the same thing as the print media is doing.)

We would all like to see progression and improvement out of the QB position. But, we can also take solace in the fact the QB position isn't losing games.

 

[TerryP]

Just to add a note since there is a lot of comparisons between last year and this year.

JPW did better last year than this year, no doubt. But, is the difference that great?!?

His pass efficiency for the entire season last year was 126. This year, it's 115. It was better last year, sure. BUT, not that much.

HOWEVER, at this point we are 22 of 24 in scoring in the red zone. (92%)

16 of those scores have been TD's.

In 12 games last year we only scored 20 TD's. And, scored only (75%) of the time.

Folks, if you look at the way things are going you can see areas of improvement.

 

[Guest]

As I have said 1000 times. I do not want to see him replaced. I do want to see what the other QB can do. There are also situations that stats do not show such as JPW dangerously sailing the ball over the middle, his unwilling to throw the ball away, and not standing in to take a hit and scrambling too early.I hope JPW finds his rythymn and he may but why should he be given a free pass when he totally is misfiring the ball. Also you keep saying that the two QB's are the same. That is completely absurd. They are not the same person or football player. Maybe GM has not been "Shula programmed" and would read other recievers.

 

[TerryP]

All I have done is stay on the same sheet of music you provided. The problem is you keep switching songs.

As I have said 1000 times. I do not want to see him replaced. I do want to see what the other QB can do.

I realize that. The things I have commented on are the reasons you say it should be done. You've tried to support your desire with different reasons. But, you've hit the wrong note on each reason.

There are also situations that stats do not show such as JPW dangerously sailing the ball over the middle, his unwilling to throw the ball away, and not standing in to take a hit and scrambling too early.

Those are called incompletions. :wink: The 4 to 9 Int to TD ratio is troublesome. Although, it bears noting that 3 of those INT's came in wins vs Vandy and Arkansas, one last week vs Houston. In both losses he didn't throw an INT.

I hope JPW finds his rythymn and he may but why should he be given a free pass when he totally is misfiring the ball.

By saying he is totally misfiring the ball is again, a different song. Is his pass efficiency down? Yes. But, if he was totally misfiring the ball, that would translate into INT's, wouldn't it? And, if that did translate to losses, one could see a good reason for a switch.

We may see a switch this weekend. My gut says if we do, it'll be because we are losing and JPW his having a worse game than he has had all year.


[/quote]Also you keep saying that the two QB's are the same. That is completely absurd. They are not the same person or football player. Maybe GM has not been "Shula programmed" and would read other recievers.[/quote]

Again, you are switching songs here. My response to you comment was they are virtually the same QB. I said that in response to your statement that GM had a stronger arm and was taller than JPW. Considering my opinion is based on what I've seen, not to mention evaluations by the staff, the accurate assessment of that statement should be Sforzando.

-------

FWIW Bones, besides one comment last night, I've enjoyed the conversations with you on the QB situation. I just wish you would look at this situation in its whole and not just trying to pick little pieces to promote an entire theory.

 

[Guest]

All I have done is stay on the same sheet of music you provided. The problem is you keep switching songs.

As I have said 1000 times. I do not want to see him replaced. I do want to see what the other QB can do.

I realize that. The things I have commented on are the reasons you say it should be done. You've tried to support your desire with different reasons. But, you've hit the wrong note on each reason.

There are also situations that stats do not show such as JPW dangerously sailing the ball over the middle, his unwilling to throw the ball away, and not standing in to take a hit and scrambling too early.

Those are called incompletions. :wink: The 4 to 9 Int to TD ratio is troublesome. Although, it bears noting that 3 of those INT's came in wins vs Vandy and Arkansas, one last week vs Houston. In both losses he didn't throw an INT.

I hope JPW finds his rythymn and he may but why should he be given a free pass when he totally is misfiring the ball.

By saying he is totally misfiring the ball is again, a different song. Is his pass efficiency down? Yes. But, if he was totally misfiring the ball, that would translate into INT's, wouldn't it? And, if that did translate to losses, one could see a good reason for a switch.

We may see a switch this weekend. My gut says if we do, it'll be because we are losing and JPW his having a worse game than he has had all year.

Also you keep saying that the two QB's are the same. That is completely absurd. They are not the same person or football player. Maybe GM has not been "Shula programmed" and would read other recievers.[/quote]

Again, you are switching songs here. My response to you comment was they are virtually the same QB. I said that in response to your statement that GM had a stronger arm and was taller than JPW. Considering my opinion is based on what I've seen, not to mention evaluations by the staff, the accurate assessment of that statement should be Sforzando.

-------

FWIW Bones, besides one comment last night, I've enjoyed the conversations with you on the QB situation. I just wish you would look at this situation in its whole and not just trying to pick little pieces to promote an entire theory.[/quote]

That's it...set up a charity boxing match and I will wear GM gloves and you can can wear gloves with JPW's face on them and we can just go at it. :lol:
It's cool man. FWIW I would like to see better QB play. I do not care if the walk on QB that is 5'2 and 125 pounds can get the job done...just put him in. I am sure thst Saban knows best and I trust his judgement. I would like to see McElroy but if Saban thinks it is a bad idea, I trust him.

 

[Guest]

FWIW Bones, besides one comment last night, I've enjoyed the conversations with you on the QB situation. I just wish you would look at this situation in its whole and not just trying to pick little pieces to promote an entire theory.

Well Bones, I can sympathize to a degree. I'm frustrated, very frustrated. I'm probably coming from a little different point of view though as I missed the entire 1st half on Sat. due to travelling.

When I sat down to watch the game on my laptop I was excited for the 1st time since the beginning of the UGA game. I began thinking maybe we've got this all worked out now.

That quickly soured as I saw drive after drive stall vs. a Houston defense that everyone said was horrible...pathetic. I knew their offense was potent but knew their D was nothing more than warm bodies.

Yet these warm bodies were blowing us off the line (and maybe I should pay more attention to that aspect). I don't think JP completed one pass while I was watching and if he did it was one of those quick short routes inside. It was literally painful for me to watch him be so ineffective.

It was equally as painful for me to see him run out time after time. I know most of you don't agree, but tell me how much worse sending GM or even Fanuzzi would have been at this point? For the 2nd straight week JP made a horrible decision that could have cost us the game. Would GM or Fanuzzi have done that? I don't know, but the point is having JP in didn't help.

Disagree, call me crazy, tell me I don't know squat about football...but when JP becomes ineffective it's pretty much over. He has a hard time getting his rhythm back until the 2 minute drill, and by then it's usually too late.

Saban says he has total confidence in John Parker, and I have to leave it at that. I'm sure if I sat down and talked to him personally he'd tell me exactly what he is telling the media re: JP. I just don't see what it would hurt at a certain stage to give GM the chance. :?

 

[Guest]

Edited.

 

[Guest]

JPW
47% [ 22 ]
Greg McElroy
52% [ 24 ]

Total Votes : 46


:shock:

Right down the middle! lol only at Alabama! :lol: