| FTBL "Wild Rebel" / Single Wing - Why is it Successful?

moreno_iv

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Alright, I'm getting ready to hit the road for T-Town, but I wanted ask y'all a question before I get out of town. I've been reading a lot this week about the Single Wing/"Wild Rebel/Hog/Dolphin/you fill in the blank" formation and here is my question:

Why does it seem like it is so much more effective than regular running plays where the QB gets the ball and hands it off to the ball carrier? Is it the change in tempo that throws defenses off?

I mean, obvioulsy McFadden was/is a beast and would do well in any formation, but they ran it for so many big plays at Arky. And now the Dolphins with Ronny Brown scoring 4 TDs in one game from the formation and Ole Miss using it against UF and surely against us this weekend.

Can some of you X's and O's guys fill me in on this?
 
Re: "Wild Rebel" / Single Wing - Why is it Success

moreno_iv said:
Alright, I'm getting ready to hit the road for T-Town, but I wanted ask y'all a question before I get out of town. I've been reading a lot this week about the Single Wing/"Wild Rebel/Hog/Dolphin/you fill in the blank" formation and here is my question:

Why does it seem like it is so much more effective than regular running plays where the QB gets the ball and hands it off to the ball carrier? Is it the change in tempo that throws defenses off?

I mean, obvioulsy McFadden was/is a beast and would do well in any formation, but they ran it for so many big plays at Arky. And now the Dolphins with Ronny Brown scoring 4 TDs in one game from the formation and Ole Miss using it against UF and surely against us this weekend.

Can some of you X's and O's guys fill me in on this?

It is designed to tie up the defense. They can run keeper draws, off tackle, end arounds, or throw it. They fake the end around often, that keeps the LB's and DE's honest. The safeties have to stay honest against the threat of a pass. Plus, you have a guy with the ball that is much more athletic than your average QB, so when he takes off, he is going to pick up more yards than an average QB. It is difficult to prepare for and takes a disciplined defense to defend it correctly... kinda like defending the option. The good news is, UA has had 2 weeks to prepare. I think BAMA will force everything outside, and I really don't see Ole Miss having much success with it.
 
Re: "Wild Rebel" / Single Wing - Why is it Success

moreno_iv said:
Why does it seem like it is so much more effective than regular running plays where the QB gets the ball and hands it off to the ball carrier? Is it the change in tempo that throws defenses off?

i'd say it has to do with a few things.

1. there is a greater degree of misdirection involved.

2. when the QB is a legitimate threat to carry the ball, that is an additional player the defense has to cover.

3. the wide splits between O-linemen today create running lanes without the need of an additional blocker.
 
I think that a lot of it has to do with the element of surprise. The personnel grouping is often the same as for a spread, and often the QB is in the game, so while they are in the huddle there is no reason to expect anything unusual. Then when they line up often the QB is lined up as a wide receiver and the star RB is lined up to receive the direct snap. While the defense is adjusting to this the ball is snapped and the D is a split second behind. I'd think, especially with the off week, we'll be able to recognize this quickly and react to it.
 
If you have multiple threats that can hurt a team, the offense puts a D in a bind. To me though, when you place the QB out wide it just gives away a skill position player. The Wing T has been widely used at the high school level and been very successful. Defenses have to be very disciplined and read their keys and play their gaps.
 
Basically it is successful in that it forces defenders to play player-assignment football. This was exactly why option offenses of the 1970s were so successful early on.

Remember in the late 1960s most teams ran either a version of THE Ohio State University wing-T or a more primitive version of the pro passing game. Defenders were taught more to defend lanes or gaps or areas or zones - as far as the run game was involved. Outside of passing routes and plays, defenders were not really assigned to account for a particular offensive player.

Then, along comes the Wishbone and Houston Veer and offenses began to account for defenders by optioning off the movements of the defenders and not necessarily blocking them. Suddenly, defenders had to be more concerned that they tackled or accounted for a particular offensive player whether or not that player had the ball. Compounding this problem was the offense may block the play a little differently next time and the defensive guy normally unblocked who was responsible for the HB might be blocked and another defensive guy that normally might be blocked go unblocked. This now unblocked guy had to recognize this difference and in the course of the play understand that he had to assume the responsibility to account for the HB.

As you can imagine, confusion reigned. To ease this confusion, defenses became less aggressive. After a while, players became accustomed to this new game and coaches became better at teaching the more passive assignment defenses.

Then, Offensive Coordinators saw that defenses were more stationary and passive and thus suspect to the old power game. Hence the evolution continued to what we have today, defenses that are now once again designed to be more gap and space control than individual offensive player accountability.

The modern Spread Option is just Wishbone and Houston Veer principals run out of a different formation. When a defense tries to stunt and fire without being able to trade player accountability assignments mid-play you see busts.
 
alagator said:
Basically it is successful in that it forces defenders to play player-assignment football. This was exactly why option offenses of the 1970s were so successful early on.

Remember in the late 1960s most teams ran either a version of THE Ohio State University wing-T or a more primitive version of the pro passing game. Defenders were taught more to defend lanes or gaps or areas or zones - as far as the run game was involved. Outside of passing routes and plays, defenders were not really assigned to account for a particular offensive player.

Then, along comes the Wishbone and Houston Veer and offenses began to account for defenders by optioning off the movements of the defenders and not necessarily blocking them. Suddenly, defenders had to be more concerned that they tackled or accounted for a particular offensive player whether or not that player had the ball. Compounding this problem was the offense may block the play a little differently next time and the defensive guy normally unblocked who was responsible for the HB might be blocked and another defensive guy that normally might be blocked go unblocked. This now unblocked guy had to recognize this difference and in the course of the play understand that he had to assume the responsibility to account for the HB.

As you can imagine, confusion reigned. To ease this confusion, defenses became less aggressive. After a while, players became accustomed to this new game and coaches became better at teaching the more passive assignment defenses.

Then, Offensive Coordinators saw that defenses were more stationary and passive and thus suspect to the old power game. Hence the evolution continued to what we have today, defenses that are now once again designed to be more gap and space control than individual offensive player accountability.

The modern Spread Option is just Wishbone and Houston Veer principals run out of a different formation. When a defense tries to stunt and fire without being able to trade player accountability assignments mid-play you see busts.

Interestingly enough, Saban commented in his presser that it wasn't a difficult thing to incorporate into an offensive system because the blocking schemes aren't any different for the Wild (insert your favorite proper noun) formation.
 
The Spread option game goes right along with these "wild" formations in that their blocking schemes incorporate the wing T philosophy. Its all about getting proper blocking angles on the D. you don't have to have the huge linemen needed to drive people off the ball, just smart,athletic, linemen who can gain leverage through angles.
 
TerryP said:
alagator said:
Basically it is successful in that it forces defenders to play player-assignment football. This was exactly why option offenses of the 1970s were so successful early on.

Remember in the late 1960s most teams ran either a version of THE Ohio State University wing-T or a more primitive version of the pro passing game. Defenders were taught more to defend lanes or gaps or areas or zones - as far as the run game was involved. Outside of passing routes and plays, defenders were not really assigned to account for a particular offensive player.

Then, along comes the Wishbone and Houston Veer and offenses began to account for defenders by optioning off the movements of the defenders and not necessarily blocking them. Suddenly, defenders had to be more concerned that they tackled or accounted for a particular offensive player whether or not that player had the ball. Compounding this problem was the offense may block the play a little differently next time and the defensive guy normally unblocked who was responsible for the HB might be blocked and another defensive guy that normally might be blocked go unblocked. This now unblocked guy had to recognize this difference and in the course of the play understand that he had to assume the responsibility to account for the HB.

As you can imagine, confusion reigned. To ease this confusion, defenses became less aggressive. After a while, players became accustomed to this new game and coaches became better at teaching the more passive assignment defenses.

Then, Offensive Coordinators saw that defenses were more stationary and passive and thus suspect to the old power game. Hence the evolution continued to what we have today, defenses that are now once again designed to be more gap and space control than individual offensive player accountability.

The modern Spread Option is just Wishbone and Houston Veer principals run out of a different formation. When a defense tries to stunt and fire without being able to trade player accountability assignments mid-play you see busts.

Interestingly enough, Saban commented in his presser that it wasn't a difficult thing to incorporate into an offensive system because the blocking schemes aren't any different for the Wild (insert your favorite proper noun) formation.

Bring on the Wild Turkey formation.

:D :D :D
 
Saban press conf

What was coach talking about right there at the end when he stuck his head back in and said "when you get a head coaching job you can do whatever the hell you want to"?
 
Re: Saban press conf

cjaytch said:
What was coach talking about right there at the end when he stuck his head back in and said "when you get a head coaching job you can do whatever the hell you want to"?

One of the reporters said something to the effect of he likes the option game so would Coach Saban ever implement some option plays? Coach replied...
 
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