| NEWS ESPN's Kirk Herbstreit foresees Auburn exposing Alabama football's defense in Iron Bowl - Montgomery Advertiser

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

They were allowing less than 10 points per game in '19 until they ran into LSU: 37 was put up on their defense.

Until I see differently, I have no reason to believe they have the offense to keep up with the better offenses in college football. It's the old "proof is in the pudding" thing.

Basing your 2021 UGA perspective on the fact that UGA of the past hasn't had an offense to keep up with a good offense is a strawman argument. Previous teams are not predicated on past teams no matter how you try to justify it. If an UA analyst gave a report to CNS saying that we can't see the 2021 UGA Offense as a threat primarily based on how they've done in the past, that analyst would be set aflame just to made an example.

IF I pull UGA out of the statistics these offenses are still in the bottom half. That's the point here.

Show me your data please. I'm a skeptic.

FEI has UGA's SOS at #42 (UA at #4) and that's based purely on what's happened within this season measuring efficiency on both sides of the ball: UGA's and their opponents.

You have faith in Georgia. Okay. The substance of things not seen ...

I wasn't aware of FEI & I'd like to learn more. Who is this?

And I agree that we have had the tougher schedule, such as playing more away games than Jawja. But just because we have played a tougher schedule so far doesn't necessarily mean we are better prepared to play Jawja.

I am basing my perspective on both 'Bama's & Jawja's 2021 teams. The substance I am basing it on is what has been seen: They haven't lost, they have dominated everyone they played, they don't make negative plays, etc. They have played with better execution on both sides of the LOS. That's not because everyone they played isn't as talented. We have not performed like that. Not even close. Which is the entire point about us not playing good football with the likes of Mercer. "But we have a stronger SOS". Yep but that didn't show up playing the Bears. Its interesting how that fact is not even acknowledged. But if you want to make your stand on that hill (they just haven't played anybody good offensively) be my guest. Thank you for proving my point on the confirmation bias via fandom.

For what it is worth, IF we get in a shoot out with Jawja, I agree, we win because we have a better offense because of our QB & WR's.

However, based on how I have seen both teams actually play in 2021, regardless of competition, I don't see it being an offensive shootout. Jawja's defense has played very good football regardless of who they played. They haven't done anything spectacular on offense, I'll give you that. But I don't see our offensive LOS holding up to their front 7 right now based on how I have seen both sides play. Our saving grace is Bryce Young, but he can't block or catch the ball. Jawja has shown that against anyone so far, a QB will be neutralized by an outstanding front 7.

 

[TerryP]

Yeah his mouth had written a check. Even then I still contend it was more about the crappy play of Bama more so than A&M. Give them credit (but not to much ), they did win in the end.

I agree with the A&M game. One half of pretty good football, one half where they were lost. Bama was out-played and out-coached that Saturday: it happens to the best of the best.

 

[BamaFan334]

I can't speak for Tider here but have a thought.

When there's only one team out of the 130 that's scored more touchdowns than Ohio State I'd say the Buckeyes are a good place to start, right? They've become very efficient on offense since their game with Oregon.

You lead me to a question. I'll assume you consider Ole Miss to have a dynamic offense. Ohio State's putting up better numbers and are more efficient than Lane's crew. If one is dynamic and the other is putting up better numbers wouldn't you call that dynamic?

But Ole Miss is doing it against better competition than Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Akron etc. Yes, Ole Miss is dynamic for sure. We can atleast say Ole Miss is getting it done. They also looked the part against us, but our defense did play a hell of a game. I consider Ole Miss scarier than Ohio State as hard as some may find that to believe. They both boast about the same kind of defensive ability too. I'd take Ole Miss and the spread against Ohio State. Treyveon Henderson is the real deal and with him heating up I feel Ohio State will be a tough out, but their defense will fail them. Stroud is the guy I don't trust. It's easy to be good when you don't have a defense that's worth a crap on the other side of the ball. His competition hasn't been anything to write home about.

 

[TerryP]

Basing your 2021 UGA perspective on the fact that UGA of the past hasn't had an offense to keep up with a good offense is a strawman argument. Previous teams are not predicated on past teams no matter how you try to justify it. If an UA analyst gave a report to CNS saying that we can't see the 2021 UGA Offense as a threat primarily based on how they've done in the past, that analyst would be set aflame just to made an example.

The head coach is the same. His philosophy is the same. If he hasn't changed why should we expect something different? Tell me, what do you see as different in Georgia's offense this season? (They are better on defense this season than last, a little better than their teams in '18 and '19. But all three seasons have the same trait: when they run into a good offense they give up points.)

I've not said UGA's offense isn't a threat. I have said that when they face a good offensive opponents their numbers and success in those seasons didn't carry over to those games: sans one against OU. We've seen the Tide have to score to keep up. We've not seen UGA have to do the same.

Show me your data please. I'm a skeptic.

Quickly do the math. One game out of seven isn't going to make much of a difference. UK is 11th, I believe, in the SEC right now. Without UGA they'd be fighting LSU for 10th. It's roughly 29 to 31 point comparison.

I wasn't aware of FEI & I'd like to learn more. Who is this?

BCFToys is the database.

I am basing my perspective on both 'Bama's & Jawja's 2021 teams. The substance I am basing it on is what has been seen: They haven't lost, they have dominated everyone they played, they don't make negative plays, etc. They have played with better execution on both sides of the LOS. That's not because everyone they played isn't as talented. We have not performed like that. Not even close. Which is the entire point about us not playing good football with the likes of Mercer. "But we have a stronger SOS". Yep but that didn't show up playing the Bears. Its interesting how that fact is not even acknowledged. But if you want to make your stand on that hill (they just haven't played anybody good offensively) be my guest. Thank you for proving my point on the confirmation bias via fandom.

This is where two subjects have been mixed together: talking about what Georgia's faced and then comments about Bama's defense in comparison. It's two different conversations, really.

If you've noticed I haven't disagreed with things said about UGA. Points to their favor here I've seen as well.

It's what I haven't seen I keep bring up and until I do...? 'Clemsoning' was something you could count on for several consecutive years; you knew it was coming but not necessarily when. Dabo managed to break through that 'barrier.'

May I coin "Kirbying?" I look to the past few seasons and see little differences in Georgia. I've pointed out things we've not seen Georgia face. Is it reasonable to assume we'll see a "Kirby" before the regular season ends? This may be Georgia's season but until I see ...

For what it is worth, IF we get in a shoot out with Jawja, I agree, we win because we have a better offense because of our QB & WR's.

However, based on how I have seen both teams actually play in 2021, regardless of competition, I don't see it being an offensive shootout. Jawja's defense has played very good football regardless of who they played. They haven't done anything spectacular on offense, I'll give you that. But I don't see our offensive LOS holding up to their front 7 right now based on how I have seen both sides play. Our saving grace is Bryce Young, but he can't block or catch the ball. Jawja has shown that against anyone so far, a QB will be neutralized by an outstanding front 7.

We don't see this differently.

If Bama progresses the way we all hope and the two meet it's a game I'd think we'd see 60-65 points (total.)

I don't believe Georgia has the ability to make up a 14 point deficit unless we see a half like we saw at A&M.

 

[TerryP]

t's funny, because you didn't want to give LSU the benefit of the doubt either a couple of years back and they won the National Championship.

LSU came up with a few friends yesterday afternoon reminding me of this comment.

Do you recall why several of us had serious doubts about LSU in '19? If you don't remember the crux of the matter came down to their offense; specifically Ensminger. We weren't wrong. We did underestimate Brady's influence.

 

[NickelDoubleDog]

Something I've been wondering lately-

Everyone has rightfully noted that the Alabama made changes in the profile of player they use due to the fast paced spread offenses that don't allow you to substitute, and use a ton of 3 and 4 WR sets.

Alabama "got smaller" across the front overall as a response to that.

The last few years, we've seen some teams seem to push the front 7 around and run the ball well when they can get the D on their heels. Many have pointed to talent deficiency. I don't see that reflected in the recruiting.

My question is - has Alabama focused too much on going smaller on the DL? These days, a 3 man front is almost the de facto approach rather than a 4 man. It allows you more 2nd level players to pursue, it cuts down on QB scrambling by not having a 4 man front run past the QB on a pass and giving him tons of room. UGA has perfected the use of a Creeper to get the extra guy in the box without declaring it presnap.

Look at the D Line UGA uses.
Their DTs are
6'6" 340,
6'3" 315
6'3" 310
6'5" 300

These are not the pass rushers (like Will Anderson, Drew Sanders, Dallas Turner equivalent) but are their interior guys. Bama is not as big up front with Dale, Mathis, Eboigbe, Young, Ray, Smith.

Phil Mathis and Tim Smith are more along the lines of what UGA uses. Jamil Burroughs (who doesn't play anymore) is another.

Does Alabama need to rethink the profile of DTs they are recruiting perhaps? Or have they done that recently with guys like Smith and Burroughs, Tim Keenan/Anquin Barnes, and Jaheim Oatis in the 2022 class?

 

[BamaFan334]

Something I've been wondering lately-

Everyone has rightfully noted that the Alabama made changes in the profile of player they use due to the fast paced spread offenses that don't allow you to substitute, and use a ton of 3 and 4 WR sets.

Alabama "got smaller" across the front overall as a response to that.

The last few years, we've seen some teams seem to push the front 7 around and run the ball well when they can get the D on their heels. Many have pointed to talent deficiency. I don't see that reflected in the recruiting.

My question is - has Alabama focused too much on going smaller on the DL? These days, a 3 man front is almost the de facto approach rather than a 4 man. It allows you more 2nd level players to pursue, it cuts down on QB scrambling by not having a 4 man front run past the QB on a pass and giving him tons of room. UGA has perfected the use of a Creeper to get the extra guy in the box without declaring it presnap.

Look at the D Line UGA uses.
Their DTs are
6'6" 340,
6'3" 315
6'3" 310
6'5" 300

These are not the pass rushers (like Will Anderson, Drew Sanders, Dallas Turner equivalent) but are their interior guys. Bama is not as big up front with Dale, Mathis, Eboigbe, Young, Ray, Smith.

Phil Mathis and Tim Smith are more along the lines of what UGA uses. Jamil Burroughs (who doesn't play anymore) is another.

Does Alabama need to rethink the profile of DTs they are recruiting perhaps? Or have they done that recently with guys like Smith and Burroughs, Tim Keenan/Anquin Barnes, and Jaheim Oatis in the 2022 class?

In my mind we haven't prioritized the recruiting of our defensive line. Sure, we are getting some three and four stars, but we seem to be working harder on our outside linebacker and middle linebacker recruitment. We haven't gotten that big boy like a Maason Smith, Travis Shaw, Walter Nolan in a few years.

 

[XXL TideFan]

Of course, it's interesting because folks can come on boards like this and expose them for who they really are.

Yea truly as we are the definition of unbiased.

 

[NickelDoubleDog]

In my mind we haven't prioritized the recruiting of our defensive line. Sure, we are getting some three and four stars, but we seem to be working harder on our outside linebacker and middle linebacker recruitment. We haven't gotten that big boy like a Maason Smith, Travis Shaw, Walter Nolan in a few years.

I think they've recruited DT well. Have they recruited the wrong guys? The wrong profile? Or is it development? Burroughs was playing vs. UGA last year when the game was in crunch time. He can't play this year?

2018
Stephon Wynn
Christian Barmore

2019
Antonio Alfano (huge bust)
Ishmael Sophser (335 lb bust - this was the type of guy UGA has in terms of size)
Justin Eboigbe (has been a 3 year co starter)
Byron Young (been a 3 year co starter)
Braylen Ingraham (bust)
DJ Dale (started as a true freshman but is actually a small body type)

2020
Tim Smith (315 - the type of guy needed - ranked ahead of UGA DT Jalen Carter)
Jah-Marien Latham (4*, 280 lbs. Has not played hardly a snap yet)
Jamil Burroughs (4*, 320 lbs - already mentioned)

2021
Damon Payne (5* 297 lbs. Has he even suited up this year? Haven't heard one thing about him. 2nd ranked DT in nation behind Maason Smith)
Tim Keenan (4* 330 lbs - at least he's suiting up for games)
Anquin Barnes (3* 6'5" 299 - legit size)

2022
Jaheim Oatis (4* 6'4" 370)

 

[BamaFan334]

I think they've recruited DT well. Have they recruited the wrong guys? The wrong profile? Or is it development? Burroughs was playing vs. UGA last year when the game was in crunch time. He can't play this year?

2018
Stephon Wynn
Christian Barmore

2019
Antonio Alfano (huge bust)
Ishmael Sophser (335 lb bust - this was the type of guy UGA has in terms of size)
Justin Eboigbe (has been a 3 year co starter)
Byron Young (been a 3 year co starter)
Braylen Ingraham (bust)
DJ Dale (started as a true freshman but is actually a small body type)

2020
Tim Smith (315 - the type of guy needed - ranked ahead of UGA DT Jalen Carter)
Jah-Marien Latham (4*, 280 lbs. Has not played hardly a snap yet)
Jamil Burroughs (4*, 320 lbs - already mentioned)

2021
Damon Payne (5* 297 lbs. Has he even suited up this year? Haven't heard one thing about him. 2nd ranked DT in nation behind Maason Smith)
Tim Keenan (4* 330 lbs - at least he's suiting up for games)
Anquin Barnes (3* 6'5" 299 - legit size)

2022
Jaheim Oatis (4* 6'4" 370)

Ha, totally forgot about Damon Payne. Yeah, haven't heard a word from him. I think we have some really good players, but not that dominating guy like Da'Ron Payne or Ashawn Robinson.

 

[Bammerboy321]

I don't see this being a controversial take. Alabama doesn't tackle well in space, Bo Nix knows how to improvise, and no one - outside of Anderson - is great at getting pressure and is quick off the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately, this game will likely be won on how well Alabama and Young move the ball on Auburn's defense.

I can't trust Golding.

 

[Bammerboy321]

I think they've recruited DT well. Have they recruited the wrong guys? The wrong profile? Or is it development? Burroughs was playing vs. UGA last year when the game was in crunch time. He can't play this year?

2018
Stephon Wynn
Christian Barmore

2019
Antonio Alfano (huge bust)
Ishmael Sophser (335 lb bust - this was the type of guy UGA has in terms of size)
Justin Eboigbe (has been a 3 year co starter)
Byron Young (been a 3 year co starter)
Braylen Ingraham (bust)
DJ Dale (started as a true freshman but is actually a small body type)

2020
Tim Smith (315 - the type of guy needed - ranked ahead of UGA DT Jalen Carter)
Jah-Marien Latham (4*, 280 lbs. Has not played hardly a snap yet)
Jamil Burroughs (4*, 320 lbs - already mentioned)

2021
Damon Payne (5* 297 lbs. Has he even suited up this year? Haven't heard one thing about him. 2nd ranked DT in nation behind Maason Smith)
Tim Keenan (4* 330 lbs - at least he's suiting up for games)
Anquin Barnes (3* 6'5" 299 - legit size)

2022
Jaheim Oatis (4* 6'4" 370)

Not to belabor the point, but at what point to do start questioning the staff for the lack of development and/or the misses in recruiting? A few misses in each class is one thing. For it to become a trend likely means there's more than meets the eye.

I personally haven't liked the complete 180 in identity change since Golding took over. Some of this also probably has to do with Saban's approach to the modern game.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

I don't see this being a controversial take. Alabama doesn't tackle well in space, Bo Nix knows how to improvise, and no one - outside of Anderson - is great at getting pressure and is quick off the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately, this game will likely be won on how well Alabama and Young move the ball on Auburn's defense.

I can't trust Golding.

@Bammerboy321 welcome back. Four years between posts?

 

[Bammerboy321]

@Bammerboy321 welcome back. Four years between posts?

Thank you sir.

Decided it was time. Focused on graduating at UA, getting a job, and joining the Air National Guard, so I took time away from message boards. Saw that Woolly has disbanded and came here.

 

[XXL TideFan]

@Bammerboy321 welcome back. Four years between posts?

He has been stocking up.

 

[NickelDoubleDog]

Ha, totally forgot about Damon Payne. Yeah, haven't heard a word from him. I think we have some really good players, but not that dominating guy like Da'Ron Payne or Ashawn Robinson.

Seriously, I'd like to hear what the word is on Payne. Is he hurt? This class has the most 5* guys not even close to contributing that I can recall. Maybe that's a function of the team being young and losing so many elite players and leaders that they can't integrate the more talented newcomers because there aren't upperclassmen leaders to the point they need.

I think Tim Smith is a potentially dominant player. He flashes some great stuff and physically is elite. What happened to Burroughs?

There was a game where Cubelic had talked to Golding and the gist was that the young DL were more talented, but "not ready". Is that where guys like Burroughs, Smith (to a degree), Latham, and Payne have landed? Even last year when it was white knuckle time vs Georgia, the D turned to 2 true frosh in Smith and Burroughs to slow the UGA run game.

 

[BamaFan334]

Seriously, I'd like to hear what the word is on Payne. Is he hurt? This class has the most 5* guys not even close to contributing that I can recall. Maybe that's a function of the team being young and losing so many elite players and leaders that they can't integrate the more talented newcomers because there aren't upperclassmen leaders to the point they need.

I think Tim Smith is a potentially dominant player. He flashes some great stuff and physically is elite. What happened to Burroughs?

There was a game where Cubelic had talked to Golding and the gist was that the young DL were more talented, but "not ready". Is that where guys like Burroughs, Smith (to a degree), Latham, and Payne have landed? Even last year when it was white knuckle time vs Georgia, the D turned to 2 true frosh in Smith and Burroughs to slow the UGA run game.

Maybe @TerryP can give us some updates?

I agree with you as far as contributions. You feel atleast one young guy would crack the lineup and get some playing time. I'm to the point where if I don't see some shaping up by the older guys, put some of the young talent in there and just let them go. A busted assignment is a busted assignment to me, and I can accept it from a young hungry guy. Maybe this defense needs less "structure" and more "get after it". Turn 'em loose like we have talked about.

 

[Rolltide24]

Looks like Georgia’s best LB was suspended for rape today. He’s a beast. Big loss for them if he can’t return. Anderson is his name.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

Looks like Georgia’s best LB was suspended for rape today. He’s a beast. Big loss for them if he can’t return. Anderson is his name.

Nakobe Dean is their best LB. I'm pretty sure he will win the Butkus, barring injury.

But something tells me Adam Anderson will be cleared of allegations by the SEC Championship Game (sarcasm).

 

[Rolltide24]

Nakobe Dean is their best LB. I'm pretty sure he will win the Butkus, barring injury.

But something tells me Adam Anderson will be cleared of allegations by the SEC Championship Game (sarcasm).

Gotcha. I just saw his stats and assumed he was their top LB. His stats are just as good with 2 more sacks as Dean but less INTs. Two LB’s projected to be selected in the first round in the 2022 draft is impressive. Still a big loss for them. But again, I’m like you, probably be back by SECCG time.