This should be Trumps first federal death penalty case…Bondi should move in quickly and file federal terrorism charges
| CURRENT EVENTS These LA wildfires are something...
- Thread starter Brandon Van de Graaff
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This should be Trumps first federal death penalty case…Bondi should move in quickly and file federal terrorism charges
They should’ve hung them from power poles
Anyone else seeing lots of photos and videos of trees appearing unharmed??
When embers are landing on rooftops, decks, etc... I don't think it is all that unusual. And in some of the areas where the high winds swept the fire along quickly, I think that helps save some of the trees. I saw first hand where that happened in some areas in Gatlinburg after their fire a few years back. It basically cleared the underbrush, but the trees survived in some areas (I assume because the winds pushed the fire along faster than it could burn the trees?). Would be interesting to get @50+yeartidefan's take on it since he has a history working with wildfires.
That doesn’t make sense to me, but I appreciate the response. This is out of my wheelhouse for sure, but I can’t get past some of the footage I’ve seen of home after home, row after row, block after block, homes into ash. Yet trees still green and alive. The branches and leaves all spread out, waiting to catch an ember, but nah, the fire wanted man made structures instead. 
Ever tried to burn a green tree you cut down? Takes a really hot fire and time to get it to burn. Timber companies do controlled burns all the time to clear the competition for pine trees, all you'll see is a little black at the base for a few months. Fast moving fires or fires that don't have a lot of sustained heat don't hurt the grown trees.That doesn’t make sense to me, but I appreciate the response. This is out of my wheelhouse for sure, but I can’t get past some of the footage I’ve seen of home after home, row after row, block after block, homes into ash. Yet trees still green and alive. The branches and leaves all spread out, waiting to catch an ember, but nah, the fire wanted man made structures instead.
The same can't be said for houses with asphalt shingles, vinyl siding, and kiln dried wood.
When devastations happen like this, my heart always aches for the wildlife. Of course all sympathies for the people affected, but damn I have a soft spot for animals.
Correct assumption here? You don't have a lot of experience outdoor/roughing it/camping?
I have seen videos of this fire and others spread through Ca the past several years of trees burning from inside out. What;s up with that?
Official explanations I have heard do not make sense.
January typically is not wildfire season there.
Houses burning to white ash, including tile roofs and bathrooms, while many trees left barely scorched, in wildfires in Ca past 6 - 7 years.
Autos with windshields melted away. Flipped over with what looked like mortar shell hole in the quarter panel with gas tank visible and unexploded, undamaged. Again, what's up with that. At what temperature does laminated glass melt, liquifie? At 2700 = 2900 degrees F.
Of course, most of the videos I have described have been taken down or censored.
Official explanations I have heard do not make sense.
January typically is not wildfire season there.
Houses burning to white ash, including tile roofs and bathrooms, while many trees left barely scorched, in wildfires in Ca past 6 - 7 years.
Autos with windshields melted away. Flipped over with what looked like mortar shell hole in the quarter panel with gas tank visible and unexploded, undamaged. Again, what's up with that. At what temperature does laminated glass melt, liquifie? At 2700 = 2900 degrees F.
Of course, most of the videos I have described have been taken down or censored.
Unfortunately, no, not on land. I’ve spent lots of time on water though, including “roughing it” overnight several times, does that count?
Again, I admit my ignorance on how fires spread and travel and the flammability of various substances. But there are many factors that don’t add up to me, even if this one issue is a nonissue. The older I get, the more I respect people’s intuition, my own included, when reason may not support it. I notice more and more instances where people question or object to something, but when pressed they don’t articulate a defensible stance. All the while, their subconscious is detecting an irregularity or anomaly which eventually proves over time to justify the skeptics long ago. Accidents happen, yes, but for anyone keeping score, there are so many deliberately created disasters these days that it justifies a default conspiratorial disposition. As society further decays and as wealth continually consolidates, we almost need to hold the powerful guilty until proven innocent. A quote comes to mind:“Authority, when first detecting chaos at its heels, will entertain the vilest schemes to save its orderly facade.”
So much here .... that could be discussed.... from vegetation ecology to politics to climate.... a lot technical ...a lot philosophical...a lot misunderstood
In wildland fire management there are 3 levels ..
Prevention...pre-suppression (planning)....suppression ( putting fire out)
The LA area..waxy highly flammable native vegetation...local fire service funding reductions.....West ( Santa Anna) winds 60-100 mph and humidity in single digits
Just pure nightmare conditions....and add inthe number of fires...
All of this exceeds all levels of pre suppression ( planning level) ...and suppression capability. In the wildland....to much fire...to excessive conditions...
Dont know if it was ever conceived that the wildland conditions could affect the urban areas where non native vegetation ..less of the waxy native species..was used in landscaping ( your right @TerryP )
Especially to such a degree
Saw a lot about lack of water..and .but in those conditions with fire at that level...
How much water would have been enough. In those conditions i doubt it!
But blame blame blame ( the politics)
Fires in our Appalachians hard wood. Much different. Get really dry n low humidity. No West winds and RH rarely bottoms out. Hardwoods can handle light to moderate ground fires
According to season...growing season or dormant season
So the forest recovers...but urban growth around and in forest is the issue. People n peoples homes.
Piney woods .... have been in Georgia,Mississippi n Texas where we had crown fires. But its rare
Saw some in Georgia in swamp fires ( in Okefenokee swamps...)
Mostly ground fires and southern pines canhandle low to moderate ground fires
Same urban growth problem
But when conditions get extreme. Like LA or gatlinburg. Or Okefenokee. They exceed the planning levels Its rare but happens. Not enough human or firefighting resources..
Happens in other situations...covid breakout...Katrina in New Orleans...etc
My take @Brandon Van de Graaff
Right. January isnt typically majaor fir season...but when west winds ( santa annas) arrive. If there is ignition. Theres problems
Most of big fires are from lightning....storms are mostly summer..early fall. I think .these in LA may be arson??? Some reports
All true. Its a climate phenomenon. The air and surrounding vegetation exchange moisture. The smaller the vegetation ( dry leaves..twigs) do so quickly. Larger the vegetation..the more time it takes ... we call this 10 hour fuels...100 hour fuels..1000 hour fuels..etc. when RH ( amount of moisture in air) bottoms out...can get lower than kiln dried lumber.....it begins to dry out construction material. And increases flammability
And makes...the structures flammable...
Plus surrounding fires pre heats all materials as it burns and is pushed by the wind and is sucking the wind ( fires needs fuel, heats, oxygen) and creating wind forces in itself...
As far as fire in piney southern forest...most are species ..southern yellow pines..are designedto withstand some fire...in controlled conditions ( control burns..lol..) and some wildfires...
wildlife takes a major toll from wildfires. .absolutely.
Some have instincts and ability ( can run like hell) to escape. Other just bury down.Its devastating . And the secondary affect is the run off of ash and increased flow and temperature into streams can be damaging to aquatic species
Ummm. Fast moving fire. No buildup of heat around them. They may not be harmed. They may not be green long. They may be protected by their thick bark. A lot of factors
Sorry bout long response. Hope i answered ur questions. 40 years in fire ( along with my management position) ... fire is unpredictable..fire fighting is dangerousl ... every region of country is unique... and has it own set of issues.... i hate the political blame game... could things been done differently...in retrospect...sure... but in fire the unique ican be so extreme. God bless to all those in LA...
It is my understanding that when the high winds started, they were from the East.
From what I heard on a TV report, there are no controlled burns in the greater Los Angeles area.
How can you controller something when you don't have the water to put it out!
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