| CURRENT EVENTS Israel vs. Iran, and where will the US fit in?

[64Tide]

No, but…

Why would human beings trust ANY GOVERNMENT having nukes, especially when governments have such a bloody history with having a monopoly on force?

Given that nukes already exist and are in possession by governments, why should we trust MORE the only government who has used them against civilians? And why should we trust the West, in general, when it’s been the West overthrowing, bombing, invading, and occupying foreign lands for centuries now?

It seems that the acquisition of nukes internationally has an analogous effect to the widespread acquisition of firearms intranationally. First of all, there’s the adage, “An armed society is a polite society.” The fact that the US and USSR never fought each other directly was largely due to mutually-assured destruction. Furthermore, where do mass shootings usually occur? In gun-safe zones. Similarly where do you see wars? Nuclear-armed countries overthrowing or striking non-nuclear countries. Power inequality encourages aggression by the powerful against the powerless. Deterrence is a prerequisite to international respect and peace.

Military alliances further encourage gang-like behavior by enabling bellicosity against non-member states. For instance why should Ukraine and Israel act responsibly towards their neighbors if they can socialize their defense costs to the US taxpayer? Alliances (ie international welfare) subsidize antisocial and uncompromising actions abroad just like welfare subsidies encourage unproductive activity domestically.

Lastly, the obsession about Iran is part of a psyop created by the same actors behind 9/11. The fact is, any energy spent scrutinizing Shia Iran detracts from the justified and deserved scrutiny owed toward Sunni Islam, namely the GCC led by Saudi Arabia, and Israel as the counterbalancing force in the region.

Why anyone would worry about marginalized countries like Iran over worrying instead about corrupt allies on the receiving end of US taxpayer aid and protection who have been proven to harm us, shows just how effectively the Deep State and the M.I.C. manipulates public opinion. Defense contractors thrive on alliances while perversely thriving too on instability, both real and perceived. This is what Ike and many others throughout history warned us about.


My guess is the nearest recipient of US arms and aid who threatens them and vocally calls for preemptive nuclear strikes, as Bibi does. This is why many foreign policy experts not on the payroll of think tanks or foundations funded by defense contractors and foreign governments have commented that US aid and diplomatic immunity to Israel ironically HARMS, NOT HELPS, Israel’s long term security. Besides, the United States government is constitutionally responsible for protecting AMERICANS, NOT FOREIGNERS. Your question is akin to leftists and progressives who justify domestic spending and programs on the basis of “what if ___ happens?” You can justify any government policy or expenditure if your imagination is dark or pessimistic enough. Freedom requires courage, and peace requires trust. Cowardice and fear fuel authoritarianism and militarism.

They would strike Israel. The known manifesto of these people is to kill every Jews. Other infidels would be next. But it would be Israel’s fault and well deserved because of the atrocities they have committed. Corrrct?

 

[musso]

They’ve been saying Iran has been a week away for years now…

And they identified the list of regimes to overthrow (or, in the case of Syria, try to) ten days after 9/11.


And if you look up A Clean Break, a foreign policy proposal the Neocons wrote in the 90’s for Bibi back during his first stint as Israeli Prime Minister, you’ll see current events in the Middle East were planned decades ago. So don’t pretend the current arguments for war are the real reasons. They are propaganda to either persuade or frighten the public into tolerating more war and more corporate welfare.

 

[musso]

They would strike Israel. The known manifesto of these people is to kill every Jews. Other infidels would be next. But it would be Israel’s fault and well deserved because of the atrocities they have committed. Corrrct?

I’m not responding to Straw Man arguments. Critique or question something I actually said by using the quote feature.

As you do this, ask yourself, why didn’t AQ or ISIS ever attack Israel? And why did ISIS apologize to Israel one time when accidentally striking an Israeli asset? And why did Israel provide medical treatment for injured ISIS rebels trying to topple Assad? Why did our response to 9/11, called the War on Terrorism, avoid targeting the region’s theocracies, notably Saudi Arabia, and instead targeted the region’s most secular regimes, like Iraq, Libya, and Syria, which had nothing to do with 9/11? Why did we keep the states who had long supported the spread of radical Islam and jihad on the receiving end of defense aid???

 

[TerryP]

I’m not responding to Straw Man arguments.

There is no straw man here. Rather, centuries of history.

 

[musso]

The known manifesto of these people is to kill every Jews.

What manifesto? And who is “these people”?

On another note, did you know that the largest Jewish population in the world, other than in Israel and the US, is in Iran? Did you know that Jews are represented in the Iranian assembly? Any attack on Iran by either Israel or the US on Israel’s behalf, would assuredly endanger the third largest Jewish population in the world. Political Zionism isn’t Judaism and many Jews worldwide including many Orthodox Jews inside Israel oppose Bibi’s extremist government, not to mention many Israelis at large and most Jews in the US. If you’ve been paying attention to domestic Israeli politics, you’d know just how much Bibi needs perpetual conflict and endless war to save his career.

 

[musso]

There is no straw man here.

The Straw Man was there.

 

[TerryP]

The Straw Man was there.
View attachment 28301

I'm of the opinion you fell for sarcasm.

 

[musso]

I'm of the opinion you fell for sarcasm.

Is he not able to speak for himself to clarify??? I wasn’t even replying to you, to begin with.

Considering all that I’m doing in the real world why recalling so much history for this thread, I’d say I’m doing rather well if I miss a sarcastic tone here or there due to my multitasking.

 

[TerryP]

Is he not able to speak for himself to clarify??? I wasn’t even replying to you, to begin with.

Sir. This is a Wendy's.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Considering all that I’m doing in the real world why recalling so much history for this thread, I’d say I’m doing rather well...

Yes, you are the Sage to Fit Your Perspective.

 

[64Tide]

What manifesto? And who is “these people”?

On another note, did you know that the largest Jewish population in the world, other than in Israel and the US, is in Iran? Did you know that Jews are represented in the Iranian assembly? Any attack on Iran by either Israel or the US on Israel’s behalf, would assuredly endanger the third largest Jewish population in the world. Political Zionism isn’t Judaism and many Jews worldwide including many Orthodox Jews inside Israel oppose Bibi’s extremist government, not to mention many Israelis at large and most Jews in the US. If you’ve been paying attention to domestic Israeli politics, you’d know just how much Bibi needs perpetual conflict and endless war to save his career.

The goal of radical Muslims/Islam is too kill every Jew, or at least that’s the goal of terrorist organizations from the Middle East. Should have put manifesto in parenthesis. Destroy Jews first and other infidels.

 

[musso]

Destroy Jews first and other infidels.

Well then, as I indicated already, they’re doing a very poor job. Funny that they seem to target more Gentiles than Jews. And most of their Gentile victims seem to be in the Western states with the world’s largest military and intelligence budgets which rely on perpetual threats. But Israel remains fine, has one of the world’s highest percentage of billionaires, and continues to illegally seize more and more lebensraum from Palestinians unchecked. Jews around the world, even in Iran, are among the most successful ethnic groups per capita. So either you have the goals of radical Muslims backwards, or they just really suck.

 

[musso]

Yes, you are the Sage to Fit Your Perspective.

Broaden my perspective, won’t you please. Point to any falsehoods I’ve shared so that I may correct myself. Let us learn from each other.

 

[64Tide]

Well then, as I indicated already, they’re doing a very poor job. Funny that they seem to target more Gentiles than Jews. And most of their Gentile victims seem to be in the Western states with the world’s largest military and intelligence budgets which rely on perpetual threats. But Israel remains fine, has one of the world’s highest percentage of billionaires, and continues to illegally seize more and more lebensraum from Palestinians unchecked. Jews around the world, even in Iran, are among the most successful ethnic groups per capita. So either you have the goals of radical Muslims backwards, or they just really suck.

So how go you explain that? It’s like they have providential protection…from that God that doesn’t exist. The One who chose the Jews as a people unto Himself and promised to make them a great nation. Maybe that God does exist?

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Broaden my perspective, won’t you please. Point to any falsehoods I’ve shared so that I may correct myself. Let us learn from each other.

You're not going to learn from me. You've concluded that, since Truman, the U.S. is a greater evil than the Irans and North Koreas of the world. We can all point to instances of foreign policy that says the U.S. acts only in its interests or is genuinely supportive, the U.S. is a bully that shows no restraint or is a great power that shows exceptional restraint, that the U.S. only has friends of convenience or it seeks to support freedom abroad.

 

[TerryP]

You're not going to learn from me. You've concluded that, since Truman, the U.S. is a greater evil than the Irans and North Koreas of the world.

Your time line is off here, Tim. I've been talking with him about political issues since 43 was in office. He's actually "loosened" up over the years.

 

[musso]

So how go you explain that? It’s like they have providential protection…from that God that doesn’t exist. The One who chose the Jews as a people unto Himself and promised to make them a great nation. Maybe that God does exist?

Aahhh the common “god of the gaps” fallacy: when you don’t know how to understand or explain something, you invoke a deity. Not just any deity, but an ugly, petty, jealous, vindictive, genocidal, racist, Jewish supremacist deity. If I did believe in a god, it’d be one who saw no distinction between “Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free, etc.” and who replaced covenants based on ethnic identity with a new covenant based on spiritual identity and “fruits” such as faith, hope, and love.

I’d say you’re confusing godly favor with government favor. Israel “prospers” because of the sponsorship it receives from the most powerful Western colonizers on the planet, especially ours, which subsidize and protect it from diplomatic and military reprisals. No gods are needed to explain Israel’s privileges when you already have good ‘ol American guns and billions from broke US taxpayers flowing in every year. The Israel Lobby is statistically among the most powerful lobbies in our federal and state governments.



Power also comes from espionage. Were you living under a rock during the Epstein disclosures??? The dude had many of the world’s richest, smartest, and most talented and powerful people in Mossad’s pocket. No need to reach for theories of divine providence when tried-and-true arts of blackmail, honeypot operations, and false flags will suffice.

 

[64Tide]

O sage of the ages, how do you explain the nstion being reborn in 1948? Another coincidence? Explain surviving 6 wars since 1948, surrounded by ethnic groups that hate the ground they walk on.

 

[musso]

how do you explain the nstion being reborn in 1948? Another coincidence?

Terrorism. Against both the indigenous Palestinian Arabs and the British who oversaw Jewish immigration into Palestine. Talk about biting the hand who fed you…

Explain surviving 6 wars since 1948, surrounded by ethnic groups that hate the ground they walk on.

First of all, Jews, Jewish Christians, Arab Jews, Arab Christians, and Arab Muslims all got along fine in Palestine under the Ottoman Empire before the Allies imposed the mandate system after WW1 and began colonizing Palestine with European Jews. It’s not like Arabs and Jews have always fought. In fact, there has been more conflict between Europeans and Jews than between Arabs and Jews dating back to Roman rule. What most Arabs have detested since the British mandate is a Zionist state which from the beginning discriminated against the indigenous people and has functioned as a US protectorate meddling in the region.

The National Crime Syndicate (dominated by the Italian and Jewish mobs led by Lansky) fused with military intelligence during WW2. Jewish mobsters were long instrumental in the organization of the CIA, Mossad, and the Zionist project. See the movie Lansky starring Harvey Keitel. So we aren’t just talking about small little Israel against its mean Arab neighbors. We’re actually talking about well positioned Jewish financiers (Rothschild originally sponsored Zionism — see Balfour Declaration) and organized crime networks since the days of alcohol Prohibition, backed by superior Western arms against a less technological Arab region. Of course long being the nuclear bully on the block has always helped Israel intimidate neighboring countries who disagree with its policies —enter Western aid and oil investments to purchase alliances from the ruling classes in all these Gulf states, from Egypt to Pakistan. The whole region has been a literal chessboard played by the West since WW1.

How Israel got nukes is a topic worth exploring. At the time of his assassination, JFK, among other things, was working to deny Israel’s nuclear aspirations and force its lobby to register as a foreign agent. Unfortunately a coalition of intelligence and mobsters took him out, paving the way for Israel to steal nuclear technology from the US and keep AIPAC from being subject to stricter lobbying and fundraising regulations. Here’s a good read from the declassified NatSec archive:

The NUMEC Affair: Did Highly Enriched Uranium from the U.S. Aid Israel's Nuclear Weapons Program? | National Security Archive

The NUMEC Affair: Did Highly Enriched Uranium from the U.S. Aid Israel's Nuclear Weapons Program? Document collection and introduction by Roger J. Mattson, PhD

nsarchive.gwu.edu

For decades there have been allegations and suspicions that foreign agents, perhaps aided by American citizens, diverted a significant fraction of NUMEC’s unexplained uranium deficits to Israel for its nuclear-weapons program. Because of the high stakes involved, the affair has been clouded in denial and concealment for nearly a half century. Several recent books and articles, including a book by this Briefing Book’s primary author, Stealing the Atom Bomb: How Denial and Deception Armed Israel, have attempted to account for what is known and what is still a mystery.[1] Using recently declassified documents published today for the first time by the National Security Archive and the Nuclear Proliferation International History Project, this Electronic Briefing Book aims to make more widely available to the public the fascinating information that has been declassified so far.

The Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation, commonly known as NUMEC, owned the Apollo uranium plant. A company named Apollo Industries, headed by Morton Chatkin, Ivan J. Novick and David Lowenthal, invested in NUMEC when it was formed in 1957. Novick later headed the Zionist Organization of America. Lowenthal was an American Zionist who played a significant role in the resettlement of Holocaust survivors in Israel.[2]

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]