So if you’re pro Israel (not their govt), and quote the Old Testament, you’re spewing idolatry? Now that’s a stretch. Sir, please share your version of the Gospel. I’m assuming you’re a God hating Jesus denying atheist.
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Well, I'm glad that calmed down a bit...
It's not just the old testament, Romans 11 covers this subject.
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Nice try, Cathy Newman.
My version is irrelevant. What’s relevant to this discussion is whether or not the Gospel and NT support political Zionism and Israel’s aggression and expansion. My point is that the text of the NT, and the whole concept of a new covenant, repudiates (1) the racist and tribal favoritism of the OT, and (2) the notion that divine favor can be summoned by birthright or by pious adherence to Torah or any other legalistic ideology. Instead, the scope of the Gospel is universal, international, and cosmopolitan. One’s race, sex, class, home country, etc., are neither advantageous nor disadvantageous for spiritual salvation. “For God so loved the
To @Krimson ’s point, yes, you can certainly find excerpts here and there of a delicate handling of Jewish affairs, Romans 11 being such an example. I had to reread it again before replying, and I was reminded how convoluted it is. I mean seriously, it’s difficult to take away anything concrete because Paul back pedals as much as he asserts. To me it reads like Paul is trying to assuage Jewish members at a time when keeping all young churches intact and unified is critical. We know the necessity of Torah observance was a point of contention. Jewish followers of Jesus probably resented or felt marginalized by the influx of Gentile membership and Greco-Roman (ie pagan) influence over the new religion.
You assume wrong. Because I’m an atheist, I don’t hate god or Jesus.
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I can understand some of what you're feeling here but to me Romans 11 isn't an excerpt, it's a chapter on exactly what you're talking about. Paul uses the analogy of an olive tree and Judaism is the root of our faith in God. He also speaks on how they didn't accept the new covenant and how their branches were trimmed from the tree and gentiles were grafted on as we did accept the new covenant. He also tells us not to be haughty because Jews are still God's chosen people and the promises God made in the Old Testament are irrevocable and will come to fruition.Nice try, Cathy Newman.
My version is irrelevant. What’s relevant to this discussion is whether or not the Gospel and NT support political Zionism and Israel’s aggression and expansion. My point is that the text of the NT, and the whole concept of a new covenant, repudiates (1) the racist and tribal favoritism of the OT, and (2) the notion that divine favor can be summoned by birthright or by pious adherence to Torah or any other legalistic ideology. Instead, the scope of the Gospel is universal, international, and cosmopolitan. One’s race, sex, class, home country, etc., are neither advantages nor disadvantages to spiritual salvation. “For God so loved theJewsworld…”
To @Krimson ’s point, yes, you can certainly find excerpts here and there of a delicate handling of Jewish affairs, Romans 11 being such an example. I had to reread it again before replying, and I was reminded how convoluted it is. I mean seriously, it’s difficult to take away anything concrete because Paul back pedals as much as he asserts. To me it reads like Paul is trying to assuage Jewish members at a time when keeping all young churches intact and unified is critical. We know the necessity of Torah observance was a point of contention. Jewish followers of Jesus probably resented or felt marginalized by the influx of Gentile membership and Greco-Roman (ie pagan) influence over the new religion.
You assume wrong. Because I’m an atheist, I don’t hate god or Jesus.
What i get from that chapter is that someJews chose a sentimental way of laws and religion and refused to accept Jesus because that would change much of how they'd worshipped for forever. They sinned by not trusting God and they've paid for it but the promises still remain and will be fulfilled and we, as Christians, should support them and recognize the history of their persecution and sacrifices for God because they are His chosen people and they paved the way for us.
Some of Paul's writings were difficult for me to understand but asking God for help in understanding and actually studying the Bible have helped me, maybe it would help you as well.
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