🏈 From AD Bill Battle: In Support of Coach Grant

[bamaraider]

I can't believe nobody has commented about the strength of schedule this year.

Or the fact that there was some progression near the end of the year.

 

[UAgrad93]

I don't understand Grant's offensive philosophy or even if he has one. That is probably my biggest gripe. There is no flow to it. We set up 4 guys around the perimeter and 1 post guy stands still. We don't flash to gaps in a zone, or run the baseline. The offense goes in to too many lulls where they can't throw one in the ocean if they are standing knee deep in the surf!! I know you can't coach height, but our bigs don't give us squat on offense and then aren't aggressive enough on defense. Engstrom is a project that I never really understood and Jacobs needs kicked in the ass on defense. We have played great defense and Grant has graduated his kids too. Let's see what next year holds. I think Coach Battle has stated without saying it, you need to win 20+ and go to the Big Dance.

 

[TerryP]

I wouldn't say anybody has regressed per se, but I just don't see improvement much.

Full disclosure I'm not a big basketball guy as in x and o and such, but I follow college enough to at least know what a 2 or 3 is.

Maybe it's more of a recruiting issue or coaches aren't very good at evaluation of talent, but a team should improve and Bama hasn't. It seems to me players have either stayed the same, reached their full mediocre level or something, but wouldn't you agree we have gotten worse as Grant's tenure has gone on?

I will say most of issue boils down to wins and losses and our losses have mounted. I do like Coach Grant, he seems like a good guy and that he loves Alabama, but when you have a leaky faucet you fix it and our basketball team is leaky, so it has to be fixed.

As I see this it all started with Mizzou; twice.

The trip the team had to Missouri where they ended up losing by @20 marked the beginning of the disappointment in Grant. It got worse, quickly, over the next month when we saw the team lose 8 of the next 10 games—all in conference play. Some of those losses were just down right ugly (Auburn and A&M come to mind.) It was enough to turn a lot of people against Grant.

But, starting with the second game against Mizzou, the team started to find a rhythm to what they were doing. I sent a text to psychojoe that day and said, "this is the first time I've seen this team, this season, play the style of game Grant has in mind." Two losses followed that game in the regular season but both of those games were pretty well played.

In the end a lot of people can't escape those eight losses or them adding into the eleven we had in conference play. It was a horrible season; one that deserves criticism.

You use a "leaky faucet" analogy and I'll go with that. We definitely had one this year, but I believe it's far too soon to call it a major plumbing problem. A guy like Lacey on the team and we wouldn't have had to wait until that Mizzou trip to Tuscaloosa to have another guard step in with point production. (Grant's offensive style has always had two.) Pollard or Gueye coming off the bench would have helped our underneath game. Without those three I don't see enough evidence to say "it's time to change the faucet, sink, pipes, and everything associated with them."

Why? I think Battle looks at this the same way I have; the 33-17 conference record over the three preceding years. Winning 66% of the conference games certainly isn't what we want, expect, or should see. Pulling the plug after one horrible season isn't either.

Talent evaluation? I've wondered about that as well. Like [MENTION=14438]uagrad93[/MENTION] mentioned Engstrom is a project; I'm not sure he's SEC caliber period. I'd swear Jacobs is basketball bi-polar. It's the "plan B" guys that I question. He's certainly pegged some good players to recruit and when we've missed on those guys and ended up signing guy like the two I've mentioned...those evaluations I question.

That said, a lot of the questions I see about players fall on the fans end as well. I see them expecting certain things out of guys that simply don't posses those type of skills. (IE: Looking at Algie as someone we should be relying on to score when he's a slasher, not a scorer.)

We've got help coming. Tarrant should replace the productivity of Relly. Adding Kessens to the combo of Taylor and Hale should help as well. Today, that gives me a reason to look at next season optimistically.

It's cautious optimism.

 

[planomateo]

Football only school :icon_scratch:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>On selection Sunday in 95 (my sr. year) UA was heading to the NCAA's for the 10th time in 12 seasons, including 6 Sweet 16's. Great Memories</p>&mdash; Bryan Passink (@BryanPassink) <a href="https://twitter.com/BryanPassink/statuses/445227514441760768">March 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[TheChief]

Plano, the track team just finished higher than basketball EVER has.

 

[TheChief]

Bama is an everything but basketball school. I don't call being in the top 65 successful.

 

[planomateo]

Bama is an everything but basketball school. I don't call being in the top 65 successful.

5 sweet 16's in 12 seasons (by my count) is pretty decent if you ask me, hell some might say that as successful. Sure its not on the level as football, but there was a time when we had some pretty good teams.

1985 - sweet 16 (lost to 3 seed NC State)
1986 - sweet 16 (lost to 1 seed Kentucky)
1987 - sweet 16 (lost to 6 seed Providence)
1990 - sweet 16 (lost to 11 seed Loyola Marymount)
1991 - sweet 16 (lost to 1 seed Arkansas)


Let me add, that I'm mixed on where I stand on this topic. I could make a case for either argument, Grant staying vs leaving. Glad I don't have to make that decision.

 

[ElephantStomp]

I think maybe people's opinion of what success is and isn't is different.

I would agree that we are a everything, but basketball school as Chief stated.

Although I am aware that our schedule this year was the second hardest in the country, so there has to be some lea way given for that. But, if next year we aren't any better then a change must be made

 

[TheChief]

5 sweet 16's in 12 seasons (by my count) is pretty decent if you ask me, hell some might say that as successful. Sure its not on the level as football, but there was a time when we had some pretty good teams.

1985 - sweet 16 (lost to 3 seed NC State)
1986 - sweet 16 (lost to 1 seed Kentucky)
1987 - sweet 16 (lost to 6 seed Providence)
1990 - sweet 16 (lost to 11 seed Loyola Marymount)
1991 - sweet 16 (lost to 1 seed Arkansas)


Let me add, that I'm mixed on where I stand on this topic. I could make a case for either argument, Grant staying vs leaving. Glad I don't have to make that decision.

Thanks for making my point. We've never been higher than 8th. What if football had never been higher than 8? What if all they hung their houndstooth hats on was top 16 finishes?

I think Battle is remembering what success was when he coached in Knoxville.

 

[TheChief]

What if Bear Bryant's famous quote said: "I ain't never been nothing but a winner. You know, someone who's always in the top 65, and sometimes in the top 16."

Or how 'bout this:

"The price of victory is high. I hear the rewards are too, but I've never won it all."

Sort of loses its charm, huh.

 

[TerryP]

There's a difference in being a basketball school and being a school that supports basketball.

Comparison to the football program are misplaced. They don't belong in this conversation.

 

[TheChief]

Misplaced? Okay, so Alabama is a school that "supports basketball"? Right so far? So fans should expect that due to that, the team can never win a national championship? Is that what you're saying? Never past the top eight? Fans should never even expect it...

 

[rammerjammer]

Don't really know how to argue this, but I'll throw out there what I'm thinking. I was jacked when we hired Grant. I think he is a class act, but our team has looked impotent the past several years. Maybe next year will be the year. Who knows?

TP, not that I'm calling you out, but I guess that is more or less what I'm doing, but you have been a big apologist for Coach Grant. Why is that? What do you know that all the other fans are not seeing, or don't know? Just wondering is all. I'll be the first to say that I don't follow basketball much. I'm a Bama fan and if they were to compete against anyone at anything up to, and to include douche-bag making I would want UA to kick tail at it. I pull for them at everything. Maybe I don't understand the numbers game of scholarships and basketball. Either way Grant is on borrowed time IMO.

Now to another issue. My question is will Auburn sell their soul to the devil and hire Bruce Pearl. That is what I'm afraid will happen. If they do, love him or hate him, the guy can coach and will put a winning program on the court. Ultimately in this state you have to win if you want to fill up your arena for bb games. I wonder if we could have landed Pearl had we let Grant go and went after him? Either way we have at least another year of Coach Grant.

 

[ElephantStomp]

There's a difference in being a basketball school and being a school that supports basketball.

Comparison to the football program are misplaced. They don't belong in this conversation.

And that's the entire problem. You (school not you specifically) either have championship expectations or you're fine with being mediocre. Having the expectations of making it to the tourney and that's fine are expectations that need to be rose a bit.

As for the comparison to the football program being misplaced and not belonging in this conversation I have to disagree. In that if this was football Grant would be ran out of town faster than you can say "hello".

I would like for somebody to tell me the difference between UA and Florida? They have expectations for championships in every sport while we as long as football does good the world is fine

 

[TerryP]

Don't really know how to argue this, but I'll throw out there what I'm thinking. I was jacked when we hired Grant. I think he is a class act, but our team has looked impotent the past several years. Maybe next year will be the year. Who knows?

TP, not that I'm calling you out, but I guess that is more or less what I'm doing, but you have been a big apologist for Coach Grant. Why is that? What do you know that all the other fans are not seeing, or don't know? Just wondering is all. I'll be the first to say that I don't follow basketball much. I'm a Bama fan and if they were to compete against anyone at anything up to, and to include douche-bag making I would want UA to kick tail at it. I pull for them at everything. Maybe I don't understand the numbers game of scholarships and basketball. Either way Grant is on borrowed time IMO.

Now to another issue. My question is will Auburn sell their soul to the devil and hire Bruce Pearl. That is what I'm afraid will happen. If they do, love him or hate him, the guy can coach and will put a winning program on the court. Ultimately in this state you have to win if you want to fill up your arena for bb games. I wonder if we could have landed Pearl had we let Grant go and went after him? Either way we have at least another year of Coach Grant.

I take exception to the "apologist" for Grant. Perhaps that's how I'm coming across. I certainly don't mean it to be that way.

Let me use something [MENTION=12433]planomateo[/MENTION] said here, "Let me add, that I'm mixed on where I stand on this topic. I could make a case for either argument, Grant staying vs leaving."

I've said something similar to that on many occasions and at the risk of putting words into Matt's mouth here let me rephrase that a bit: I've yet to see an argument that makes me say it's time for a new coach. I've yet to see a compelling reason that puts me in the position of saying, "it's time to fire Grant."

I have to disagree that team has "looked impotent" the last several years. Taking the SEC standings from 2013 we had a team that was a 4 seed going into tournament play with a 3-3 record against the three teams ranked ahead of us. It was a competitive basketball team. The 12-6 record was only bettered by the conference winner, UF, at 14-4. UK, the bellwether for the SEC, finished at 12-6 last season. There were reasons to be optimistic for 2014—until...

I'd say Grant's on a real tight leash heading into 2014-2015. Borrowed time makes me think "lame duck." And I don't see that as the case.

The biggest issue I've had falls on why people want him gone, now. As stated, the wins and losses from this season certainly deserve criticism. However, we'd have to be a "basketball crazy school" to fire him after one season. We aren't and never have been. The reasons cited have lacked substance in many cases—often they've been...well...I'll use the term uninformed instead of stupid.

Those instances where someone has brought up a point that has substance and deserves consideration there's always something on the other side of the scale. That leaves me going back to what I said earlier in this post. There isn't overwhelming reasons for a change now...as I see this.

Like you, I'm amazed we're at this point. I had greater expectations for where we'd be coming out of year five. But, I never expected for him to be dealing with what he's dealt with either.

Auburn and Pearl...I see that being pushed by one beat writer for Auburn. The same guy who was positive they were hiring Jimbo Fisher. And then it was Gary Patterson, then it was Jack Del Rio, then it was...

Ask yourself this question. Pearl was around how many basketball writers and analyst this weekend and how many of them are reporting he has interest in the job at Auburn? How many have even asked that question? Why is that?

 

[TerryP]

And that's the entire problem. You (school not you specifically) either have championship expectations or you're fine with being mediocre. Having the expectations of making it to the tourney and that's fine are expectations that need to be rose a bit.

As for the comparison to the football program being misplaced and not belonging in this conversation I have to disagree. In that if this was football Grant would be ran out of town faster than you can say "hello".

I would like for somebody to tell me the difference between UA and Florida? They have expectations for championships in every sport while we as long as football does good the world is fine

Here's one reason you can't make comparisons between the two programs—talent available. The state of Alabama consistently ranks among the top five states in terms of D1 talent coming out of high school—top five out of 50 states.

In basketball, just in the SEC alone, there are only three states which produce less D1 talent than the state of Alabama.

We're just talking recruiting here. It's a completely different landscape in terms of numbers available...and that's not beginning to touch on the rules that govern recruiting and how drastically different they are from basketball to football.

It's not just "we aren't a basketball school," the state of Alabama isn't a basketball state. For that matter the SEC isn't a basketball conference as evidence by 50% of the top 100 players each season leave the SEC's footprint to play.

I'm coming full circle here to something I tried to point to on several occasions over the last two months. Grant had a building project when he was hired; not a rebuilding project. He didn't understand that and there are a lot of fans that don't see that as well. Using Kristi Curry as example, she understood that and built a foundation of support before beginning to reach out and build a roster. Where's the support Grant built? It's not there, because he didn't.

---

Differences between Florida and Alabama? Adding to what I've pointed to alone let me put some numbers to it.

Last year Florida had 60 players commit and sign to schools in the SEC, American, and CUSA conferences. Alabama had 11 out of those three conferences—all going to SEC schools. The next biggest conference pulling talent out of the state of AL? SWAC.

 

[TerryP]

Misplaced? Okay, so Alabama is a school that "supports basketball"? Right so far? So fans should expect that due to that, the team can never win a national championship? Is that what you're saying? Never past the top eight? Fans should never even expect it...

There's a difference between a school that supports basketball and a school that is a basketball school. There have been many who say Alabama doesn't support the program. That's simply not true.

However, we aren't a Kansas, a Duke, or a Gonzaga. Those are basketball schools...schools that took longer than a half of a decade to become what they are today.

 

[TheChief]

Here's one reason you can't make comparisons between the two programs—talent available. The state of Alabama consistently ranks among the top five states in terms of D1 talent coming out of high school—top five out of 50 states.

In basketball, just in the SEC alone, there are only three states which produce less D1 talent than the state of Alabama.

We're just talking recruiting here. It's a completely different landscape in terms of numbers available...and that's not beginning to touch on the rules that govern recruiting and how drastically different they are from basketball to football.

It's not just "we aren't a basketball school," the state of Alabama isn't a basketball state. For that matter the SEC isn't a basketball conference as evidence by 50% of the top 100 players each season leave the SEC's footprint to play.

I'm coming full circle here to something I tried to point to on several occasions over the last two months. Grant had a building project when he was hired; not a rebuilding project. He didn't understand that and there are a lot of fans that don't see that as well. Using Kristi Curry as example, she understood that and built a foundation of support before beginning to reach out and build a roster. Where's the support Grant built? It's not there, because he didn't.

---

Differences between Florida and Alabama? Adding to what I've pointed to alone let me put some numbers to it.

Last year Florida had 60 players commit and sign to schools in the SEC, American, and CUSA conferences. Alabama had 11 out of those three conferences—all going to SEC schools. The next biggest conference pulling talent out of the state of AL? SWAC.

How much talent is in the state of North Carolina? You're saying in state talent precludes Alabama from being competitive? You're grasping at straws.

 

[TheChief]

Look at Coach K's record. It took five years only.

 

[TheChief]

Coach K's record, in fact, was worse than Grant's at five years into his tenure at Duke. Five years though and he hasn't looked back. There's no way North Carolina has much more talent in the state than Alabama. State talent means nothing. Image means everything. Recruits know what's going to happen playing for Alabama. The end result has been demonstrated over and over and over again.