| FTBL UA Coordinator/coaching changes— SPLIT into offensive and defensive threads.

[94 Grad]

The stats are decent, sure. Everybody points to the box score and says "but look!"

To relate this to scouting: kid from a top-heavy conference has all the measurables. 4.3 speed, 36" vertical, great broad jump. Even excels at cone drills.

But what truly matters is play on the field. The "eye test", measured against top competition.

And that is what so many of us observe on a weekly basis that the statisticians in a back office don't:

Wiffed tackles. Poor coverage. Bad run fits. Gaps in coverage. Troves of defensive penalties. Players constantly out of position at the snap. Not adjusting to "window dressing" well.

Our defense is a paper tiger, bro.

In the biggest games against tougher opponents, our defense had no will to dominate, no killer instinct. Reflective of the coordinator.

"We're changing".

Really?

NOW?

It took you all season to finally figure out how to make an adjustment?

Come onnnnnnn, bro.

But that’s across all football. It’s not just happening to Bama. The game itself is changing for many reason. I think the Era of shut down Defense is over… at least until some of the rules change.

 

[ElephantStomp]

I’ll again say this about PG, irregardless of what you feel about our defense and PG’s ability as a DC recruiters like him don’t just fall off the damn trees, the dude can also coach or our HC wouldn’t have so much respect for him. To run a dude like PG out of town because “his defense isn’t what Bama defenses in the past have been” meanwhile ignoring every fact shown to you and saying “facts and stats don’t show everything” is simply ignoring the truth. If PG ends up at Ole Miss he’ll do a hell of a great job.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

But that’s across all football. It’s not just happening to Bama. The game itself is changing for many reason. I think the Era of shut down Defense is over… at least until some of the rules change.

So out of place players, undisciplined, fumbling defensive checks, way too many defensive penalties, poor run fits half the time, zero secondary ball skills, etc is the norm across the country?

Nahhh, bro.

So what you're saying is because officiating started getting more ticky-tack with roughness calls... That's an excuse that defensive coaches use to not still teach toughness and discipline?

It's like 2 of our 4 fingers have been chopped off.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

I’ll again say this about PG, irregardless of what you feel about our defense and PG’s ability as a DC recruiters like him don’t just fall off the damn trees, the dude can also coach or our HC wouldn’t have so much respect for him. To run a dude like PG out of town because “his defense isn’t what Bama defenses in the past have been” meanwhile ignoring every fact shown to you and saying “facts and stats don’t show everything” is simply ignoring the truth. If PG ends up at Ole Miss he’ll do a hell of a great job.

Look, he's not a horrible coach. He's good. But he ain't great.

But he sucks at adjusting to competent offenses.

That shit used to not cut mustard here.

Why have all y'all settled just because our talent alone in defense dominates 8 or 9 lesser opponents a year, but struggles with the other 3 competent opponents?

It's like y'all all have gone soft on the Bama standard.

Sure, we're not gonna obliterate everybody every game.

But to lose the in the precise way we do, it's shit-ugly. ESPECIALLY on defense.

The thing is, these problems that are glaring in the big games are visible in the "meh" games. They're just way less pronounced because of competition.

Balance out the competition a bit, and our defense shits the bed.

And THAT, sir, is shitty defensive coaching.

 

[ElephantStomp]

Look, he's not a horrible coach. He's good. But he ain't great.

But he sucks at adjusting to competent offenses.

That shit used to not cut mustard here.

Why have all y'all settled just because our talent alone in defense dominates 8 or 9 lesser opponents a year, but struggles with the other 3 competent opponents?

It's like y'all all have gone soft on the Bama standard.

Sure, we're not gonna obliterate everybody every game.

But to lose the in the precise way we do, it's shit-ugly. ESPECIALLY on defense.

The thing is, these problems that are glaring in the big games are visible in the "meh" games. They're just way less pronounced because of competition.

Balance out the competition a bit, and our defense shits the bed.

And THAT, sir, is shitty defensive coaching.

Who’s a better coach? Any of us or Saban?

Also, everything you said had nothing to do with my comment. But, I’ll reiterate they don’t grow coaches and recruiters like PG and allowing him to leave for a school in OUR conference is idiotic.

Who was our DC in 2018?

Don’t get me wrong I didn’t think our defense was elite, but it wasn’t as terrible as some would like for people to believe.

 

[mando]

A defense at Bama should be elite. It is not. Measure against the Bama standard or even others it fall short. Our elite defenses of the past were not 13th. They would be in the top 5. We all know there is a big difference in a top 5 team and a team outside the top 10. Same to me with defense.

The argument "if we can get someone better" doesn't add up to me. This is Bama where they should be able to get the best of the best in my opinion. Bama needs someone back out there that will jerk a knot in some backsides and demand excellence. Need some attitude similar to Jonathan Allen types back on the field.

 

[TerryP]

Saban wouldn't be inquiring about defensive coordinators if he was happy as you're eluding to. Golding wouldn't be at Alabama if he had other promotional offers because he's so good.

There may be four people who know what Saban is thinking right now: two of whom are Saban and his wife.

Golding has had offers.

 

[Bammerboy321]

Is Alabama apparently looking at Jeff Lebby or Garrett Riley for OC?

 

[It Takes Eleven]

We've got 3-4 years worth of film to watch and go over, that's more than enough to make a decision on his performance, if you feel it's enough to keep him at Alabama, fine. But from what I've watched since his time here, it's not. I'm not willing to wait another year to see if he finally puts it together.... I can only hope Saban feels that way, or any other way about him to get him to leave for another job.

I never saw Henry develop the way I thought he would. He transferred in and committed to the program, but I never saw the recognition and run to the ball that we saw from a McClain or Mosley. I know that's a high bar. The teaching part is on the coaches, and the physical ceiling is just what it is. I feel like, to some degree, we settled on that key part of the D, and it affected our overall effectiveness. That, and a weaker D line, cost us a few yards - seemingly - on so many plays, and it allowed GA to close out the fourth quarter on us.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

First off, 2020 was an offensive year where nobody could touch us. We simply outscored everyone. So sitting there thumping our chest and making an argument for Notre Dame is just hilarious. They had no right to be in that game, and we gave up 375 yards. Ohio State's quarterback was playing hurt and we still gave up 350 yards. Gave up 380 to Ole Miss that year, over 410 to Georgia in the regular season, and over 460 to Florida in the SEC Championship game.

Last year's game against Georgia in the SEC Championship was fun to watch because the offense exploded finally and was blocking. We gave up 340 yards as a defense. Gave up 364 in the Natty against them.

I cannot even believe you want to throw Cincinnati in there as some amazing accomplishment. We simply outclassed them with talent alone. Defense played well, yes, but they had zero answers with our size, talent, and strength. Like men playing boys there. Not hanging my hat on that one.

The one thing I see you continuing to be accepting is allowance of yards as long as we win the game. The issue with that is the allowance of yards is what gets us beat in close games and what is making other games close for no reason. Zero reason Texas and Texas A&M should have been close to us. Offensive struggles, yes, but they drove up and down the field on us with opportunities to win in both of those games. You're clearly willing to accept this year's defense as great, but I am not. We looked like shit in a lot of spots, and with the talent and veterans in that unit, we should have dominated, plain and simple. All of this being said, we don't have a crappy defense and I've never said we do, but we are doing less with more than anyone else I have seen in college football. This season of college football was down as a whole and nobody really wants to take the trophy. This was a year even a down Alabama team of the past would have coasted to a Natty. But we couldn't stop anyone on defense when it mattered. We shut Kansas State down, and that was great and showed us what we expected, but the inconsistency to do it when we normally thrive, at the end of a game was non-existent.

So no, it's not intellectual dishonesty or lying to myself, it's the simple fact we did not get the job done when it mattered when teams of the past have. I'll ask you this as well. Why is Saban even talking to defensive coordinators if he is happy and that our defense is truly great/elite/top drawer or whatever else you are trying to call it?

I see your points, but if we transition from a ball control offense in the 2008-2014 window to having one minute scoring drives, the D cannot be as dominant.

 

[rick4bama]

So is PG going to OLe Siss?

 

[colbyjacks]

A defense at Bama should be elite. It is not. Measure against the Bama standard or even others it fall short. Our elite defenses of the past were not 13th. They would be in the top 5. We all know there is a big difference in a top 5 team and a team outside the top 10. Same to me with defense.

The argument "if we can get someone better" doesn't add up to me. This is Bama where they should be able to get the best of the best in my opinion. Bama needs someone back out there that will jerk a knot in some backsides and demand excellence. Need some attitude similar to Jonathan Allen types back on the field.

Bama this year was top 5 in yards allowed per play. Where we got hurt is penalties extending drives.

Just for reference how things have changed, here are the defensive rankings of the 4 playoff teams: 10, 26, 41, and 63.

I agree Pete’s defenses haven’t been consistently top 5 caliber, but a lot of that has to do with offense. As our offense has gone to elite status, our defense has taken a step back. In the last 8 years here were our offensive and defensive ranking per play side by side starting with this year.
8 5
12 10
2 18
3 13
2 25
14 1
21 1
47 3

Look at that shift that happened between offense and defense in 2017/2018 year. It’s almost like you can’t have an elite offense and defense in the same year.

 

[TerryP]

That, and a weaker D line,

This.

These complaints about the performance of the defense the last few years can be traced back to that one area: the previous two hires before Roach are among the worst Saban's made. And, as I've hinted to on occasion, the shift and results on defense this season can be traced back to the same group: starting with Justin's neck injury.

I've wanted to "take a rant" on that for weeks. Watching, hearing, and reading others opinions have been far more entertaining—defining.

 

[BamaFan334]

I see your points, but if we transition from a ball control offense in the 2008-2014 window to having one minute scoring drives, the D cannot be as dominant.

Definitely understand that, but when does that change come with the understanding it's costing us on the other side of the ball then? That or we find ways to rotate more guys in without a drop off. Or find ways to minimize the defenses time on the field with pressure and blitz packages that help get us off the field, and not running around all day while getting gashed over the middle and giving up 3rd and longs over and over again. Like others have said, we transitioned to smaller backers in efforts of helping with pass coverage, but we are still vulnerable in pass coverage at the position and then have smaller backers that allow running backs to fall forward for extra yardage all the time. These have to be things that Saban, Golding, position coaches all have their hands on, it's not all just Saban.

 

[BamaFan334]

This.

These complaints about the performance of the defense the last few years can be traced back to that one area: the previous two hires before Roach are among the worst Saban's made. And, as I've hinted to on occasion, the shift and results on defense this season can be traced back to the same group: starting with Justin's neck injury.

I've wanted to "take a rant" on that for weeks. Watching, hearing, and reading others opinions have been far more entertaining—defining.

Yep, tough to disagree with that. Pressure is non-existent.

 

[c5vetman]

I think the biggest difference is penalties. We may be 5th in yards per play allowed in the stat sheet, but that doesn't take into account penalties. How many penalties are we getting per game and if they were counted, where would we be on yards per play? I don't want to take the time to figure it out, but my math says for every extra 15 yards from a PI or personal foul penalty that isn't in those yards per play stat, we're actually giving up WAY more than that. Just looking at Tennessee, if you add the penalties to their yards gained, we nearly gave up 700 yards.

And I don't hate PG, I just think someone else would be as good at everything else and better at adjusting. I don't feel we ever adjust mid game. Look at the Tennessee game, did we do anything different in the 2nd half that we didn't do in the 1st to try to stop them?

 

[94 Grad]

So out of place players, undisciplined, fumbling defensive checks, way too many defensive penalties, poor run fits half the time, zero secondary ball skills, etc is the norm across the country?

Nahhh, bro.

So what you're saying is because officiating started getting more ticky-tack with roughness calls... That's an excuse that defensive coaches use to not still teach toughness and discipline?

It's like 2 of our 4 fingers have been chopped off.

Not even remotely what I said.

Currently the rules in play afford an advantage to the Offense. It makes it much more difficult for the defense to read plays. Combine that with player of talent opting for the offensive side of the ball and more offensive minded coaches becoming head coaches and you put all defenses under pressure.

This is happening across all football at all levels.

Go look up and review defensive ranking over the past 5/6 years and you understand it more.

As for the first part of your response, some of that is from what I’m stating above. Some from coaching. My argument on coaching is who do you blame? The position coach teaching the technique? The analyst for putting forth a bad scheme? The head coach for having an overly complicated defensive scheme? The recruit evaluators that maybe misevaluated the player? The player for simply making a mistake? These are things we as fans can’t know the proper answer to as we simple don’t have enough data to know where the fault lies. I have confidence that Saban does and can figure out how best to manage that moving forward with the same coaches or new coaches.

 

[94 Grad]

Bama this year was top 5 in yards allowed per play. Where we got hurt is penalties extending drives.

Just for reference how things have changed, here are the defensive rankings of the 4 playoff teams: 10, 26, 41, and 63.

I agree Pete’s defenses haven’t been consistently top 5 caliber, but a lot of that has to do with offense. As our offense has gone to elite status, our defense has taken a step back. In the last 8 years here were our offensive and defensive ranking per play side by side starting with this year.
8 5
12 10
2 18
3 13
2 25
14 1
21 1
47 3

Look at that shift that happened between offense and defense in 2017/2018 year. It’s almost like you can’t have an elite offense and defense in the same year.

I would also note that’s when most teams started to switch to a more no huddle rpo style offense taking advantage of the rule books to lean things in their favor. Defenses have have adjusted, but the overall game has changed. The days of shutdown defenses has ended, at least for now until something changes.

I’d also note that dual threat QBs are an easier commodity to find than traditional pro style QBs. It seems to be fast shifty QBs with average arms are a dime a dozen and can affect a game tremendously.

 

[94 Grad]

A defense at Bama should be elite. It is not. Measure against the Bama standard or even others it fall short. Our elite defenses of the past were not 13th. They would be in the top 5. We all know there is a big difference in a top 5 team and a team outside the top 10. Same to me with defense.

The argument "if we can get someone better" doesn't add up to me. This is Bama where they should be able to get the best of the best in my opinion. Bama needs someone back out there that will jerk a knot in some backsides and demand excellence. Need some attitude similar to Jonathan Allen types back on the field.

When you start to look at the top 5 in the main defensive categories, you'll see that they don't incorporate the traditional powers nor the teams that are considered to top of the league. It's a changing game... just saying. I mean, by the "stats" account, Air Force, Iowa and Illinois are lights out Dominant Defense.

Top 5 in Total Defense
1. Air Force
2. Iowa
3. Illinois
4. Iowa St.
5. James Madison

Top 5 in Yards per Play:
1. Iowa
2. Illinois
3. Marshall
4. Alabama
5. Penn St.

Top 5 in Scoring Defense
1. Illinois
2. Iowa
3. Air Force
4. Minnesota
5. UGA

Top 5 in Red Zone D
1. UGA
2. Oregon St.
3. San Diego St.
4. Middle Tenn.
5. UCF

Top 5 in 3rd down conversion Defense %
1. Marshall
2. UGA
3. Oklahoma St.
4. Air Force
5. Minnesota

 

[94 Grad]

That's why we watch film man, to determine what the problem is.

But only if you stay at a Holiday Inn Express... sorry, couldn't resist