| NEWS The NCAA needs to take a strong stand against Arkansas law that will allow guns in stadiums

[sk33tr]

That first part is such a stupid straw man. People that murder people are going to murder people whether there is a law against it. People that smoke meth are going to smoke meth whether their is law against it. Using your logic, lets just do away with all laws. The point of the law is when someone breaks it, you can actually do something about it. Not to mention, there are metal detectors or bag searches at pretty much every stadium in America at this point so if you try to bring a gun into a stadium you're probably getting caught.

not necessarily. you don't get personally searched at BDS and they don't have metal detectors there, either. all they do is ask you to open your bag, if you have one, so they can look inside. they don't do pat-downs or anything. and any person who legally carries a gun on a daily basis, like myself, does NOT carry their firearm in a bag; they carry it on their person, in a holster...the correct way.

Someone that has a conceal carry permit makes me no less worried when it comes to emotional **** like football games where people do a lot of dumb **** out of anger (tea bagging LSU fans for example or poisoning trees). Tho I do like the idea of being required to take a safety course to receive a permit rather than just simply being able to walk into the sheriff's office and get one like you can in Bama (then again our brilliant politicians are getting ready to completely get rid of permits all together because they're gonna make us safer)...

again, not so true. you can't just walk in and ask for a permit and receive one. you do have to go through a background check. and it's the same background check you go through if you want to purchase a firearm in this state and do not have a concealed carry permit. if you do have the permit, you don't have to go through the background to purchase a firearm (obvious limitations aside) since it is the same background check done by the same agency (NICS).

and the bill has only been introduced, it has not passed any of the appropriate steps to become a law. the person that introduced the bill had already introduced a similar bill several years ago that was not passed. so there's no guarantee that this one will pass, either.

being able to carry a firearm to defend yourself, your family, and your property is a right given by the 2nd amendment of the Constitution of The United States. it doesn't put restraints or limitations on it, it simply says that the right "shall not be infringed". obviously i am a staunch supporter of this right, along with the other nine listed in the Bill of Rights. does that make me a strange person, or someone who is crazy, or someone who is out to shoot others for no good reason than to just do harm? no. all it means is i believe in my right to keep and bear arms and i exercise that right on a daily basis.

and allowing people to carry a firearm into a stadium will not automatically cause everyone to just start shooting at everyone else.

if you don't agree with the rules set forth for a certain venue, then you shouldn't attend that venue. if i see a sign somewhere that says "no guns allowed", i do not go in that place. if i'm not allowed to practice my Constitutional rights, then that place doesn't need me there, plain and simple.

 

[planomateo]

Some of you need to read up on this a bit more .

This is more than just a conceal carry license... There will be two permits, a conceal carry and an enhanced carry (or whatever they call it) by late 2017/early 2018. Conceal carry won't be able to take to a game, but the enhanced carry will.

I would imagine if that person with the enhanced carry does something stupid (as some of you fear), they'll be punished accordingly.

I wonder how they'll reciprocate with my Texas License to Carry

 

[TheChief]

Agreed @sk33tr I haven't been to Wildwings in quite a while now, probably four years.

Schools do not allow firearms, unless you're an SRO, so I attend sporting events unarmed. That's the only place I go unarmed. This world is crazy.

@Birdman37 Your analogy equating meth and carrying doesn't really add up. Meth is illegal; carrying isn't. You tried to deflect Terry's point about someone committing terror by switching what was being compared. I see your concern about stadiums and those in attendance, but the right to bear arms is in the Constitution. Whether we like it or not, we all have a right to carry firearms. I don't like the way lots of people drive, but most people have a right to driive and have managed to get a license even if in my view they put my life in danger. I'm much more comfortable taking care of myself rather than depending on someone else to protect me.

 

[sk33tr]

I don't like the way lots of people drive, but most people have a right to driive and have managed to get a license even if in my view they put my life in danger.

technically it's a privilege, but i can see where you're coming from.

I'm much more comfortable taking care of myself rather than depending on someone else to protect me.

right there with ya on that one. the only other people i truly trust with my life are my family.

 

[TerryP]

It has absolutely nothing to do with my age nor political views. Seriously, make a logical argument against what I said. Someone will cook meth whether it is allowed or not, so we shouldnt have laws against cooking meth right? RIGHT? You cant have it both ways, either you use that argument for every law or stop making that straw man argument. And sorry if I think something is a stupid I say it.

I dont need a safe space because Im not a PC bitch.

What you said was coherent, but the point you were trying to make isn't clear, at all.

That first part is such a stupid straw man.

Is this what you'r referencing?

By saying it's an inherent danger is suggesting this "danger" is a permanent thing just because some will be allowed to carry.

Some. That being the key word.

What doesn't make sense is this bit you threw out there ...

People that murder people are going to murder people whether there is a law against it. People that smoke meth are going to smoke meth whether their is law against it. Using your logic, lets just do away with all laws. The point of the law is when someone breaks it, you can actually do something about it. Not to mention, there are metal detectors or bag searches at pretty much every stadium in America at this point so if you try to bring a gun into a stadium you're probably getting caught.

What does that have to do with those licensed are able to carry? You're right in the two scenario's, but neither are making a salient point in this discussion. In fact, it seems you're saying "those that aren't allowed to carry won't be allowed in." OK. How can anyone not be OK with that?

The notion, "do away with all laws?" What? There's absolutely nothing I said from which one could draw that conclusion.

This isn't difficult.

You want a gun you pass a background check with its waiting period.
You want a concealed carry permit you pass another background check along with having to prove WHY you need to carry a concealed weapon.

I'm left here thinking you're saying "people are going to carry inside the stadium whether it's within the law or not" and then turning around and saying "there's a metal detector there."

 

[TerryP]

That's the only place I go unarmed.

I have stopped going to some places because they have signs posted about no weapons allowed. It's not a big deal, I could go without one. But, I'm not going to stop, take the gun out, secure it...all to get a damn hamburger at a bar.

 

[UAgrad93]

I carry and I tuck it away in a place where I can get to it quickly in my vehicle while I'm in my workplace. Yes, I'm a teacher and our SRO is well aware. We have discussed this issue before. When it was mentioned allowing teachers to carry after the most recent school shooting, we joked about what teachers would we trust on our campus with a handgun. The answer, "Not too damn many!"
As for Arkansas, are they going to start checking each individual for both weapons and a concealed carry permit? A lot of resources will have to be spent in this area. We know that there will be a push from the left and how they feel scared by all of the weapons in the stands.
It was mentioned earlier about terrorists and a possible attack on 80,000+ venue. I do believe terrorists look for large venues where a lot of collateral damage can be accumulated. What better way to strike at America than to have coordinated attacks on several of the nations largest football venues. Hell! Just one could take out 100k+!!! True too, that some redneck could possibly take out an innocent person because "they thought" they saw something.

 

[JoshB]

What you said was coherent, but the point you were trying to make isn't clear, at all.



Is this what you'r referencing?



What doesn't make sense is this bit you threw out there ...



What does that have to do with those licensed are able to carry? You're right in the two scenario's, but neither are making a salient point in this discussion. In fact, it seems you're saying "those that aren't allowed to carry won't be allowed in." OK. How can anyone not be OK with that?

The notion, "do away with all laws?" What? There's absolutely nothing I said from which one could draw that conclusion.

This isn't difficult.

You want a gun you pass a background check with its waiting period.
You want a concealed carry permit you pass another background check along with having to prove WHY you need to carry a concealed weapon.

I'm left here thinking you're saying "people are going to carry inside the stadium whether it's within the law or not" and then turning around and saying "there's a metal detector there."

No, I was referencing this:

In this thread, so far, that is the general consensus.

In which you were replying to:

And to be more realistic, if someone wanted to carry a gun, they'll carry a gun whether it's allowed or not.

That was I was referencing when talking about a strawman...

I dont want anyone carrying a gun inside of a stadium (same as a school, office, etc.) unless by a police officer.

 

[JoshB]

Agreed @sk33tr I haven't been to Wildwings in quite a while now, probably four years.

Schools do not allow firearms, unless you're an SRO, so I attend sporting events unarmed. That's the only place I go unarmed. This world is crazy.

@Birdman37 Your analogy equating meth and carrying doesn't really add up. Meth is illegal; carrying isn't. You tried to deflect Terry's point about someone committing terror by switching what was being compared. I see your concern about stadiums and those in attendance, but the right to bear arms is in the Constitution. Whether we like it or not, we all have a right to carry firearms. I don't like the way lots of people drive, but most people have a right to driive and have managed to get a license even if in my view they put my life in danger. I'm much more comfortable taking care of myself rather than depending on someone else to protect me.

How is carrying meth not illegal? Yes it is, possession of a controlled substance is different than trafficking (and there are multiple degrees of possession). I didnt try to deflect anything, I said that the claim that "if they want to do it they will do it regardless of a rule/law" is a stupid argument.

Right to bear arms is in the constitution, as is the wording "well regulated" meaning you have to following the laws that are in place. It kills me when people want to cherry pick parts of the constitution they like.

 

[BamaFan334]

Well, it's good to hear that nothing, in your opinion, has changed socially in Fayetteville that would necessarily warrant preemptive strikes against Bama fans with deadly force? Save the NRA position for another day and person, cause the only issue here is the potential stupid of this Arkansas law. Why would a sane person think about even going to a football game thinking that potentially 80,000 hogvilians feel it neccessary to arm themselves with deadly weapons upon our arrival, just in case? In this day of HD and ticket prices, I'm not worried about arming myself, just in case, I ain't going.

By the way, my wife and I recently went to one of our grandaughter's kindergarden recitals, and we went unarmed. I know, we were taking a chance, cause bad things have happened before. That's just the way we roll.

Would someone go to church and think they would get gunned down? It's more of the thought of a potential threat, not stating there is definitely one there and you have to sniff it out. I mean, I'd rather be safe than sorry any day of the week. Can't think about What If if you're the unfortunate one with the bullet in your head. I trust no one these days, and no offense to anyone on this site, but I wouldn't trust anyone as far as I could throw them. Hell, look at the Aaron Hernandez situation to show that anyone can turn on you.

 

[TUSKtimes]

Would someone go to church and think they would get gunned down? It's more of the thought of a potential threat, not stating there is definitely one there and you have to sniff it out. I mean, I'd rather be safe than sorry any day of the week. Can't think about What If if you're the unfortunate one with the bullet in your head. I trust no one these days, and no offense to anyone on this site, but I wouldn't trust anyone as far as I could throw them. Hell, look at the Aaron Hernandez situation to show that anyone can turn on you.

The reality is that the right to bear arms isn't a right if an establishment says you can't come in with a gun. You can choose not to come in, but then nothing absolute about your right to bear arms. And so it's always been with all these wonderful rights we hold so dearly. No such thing as absolute.

You know when these gate people are going through all our stuff, they are actually looking for the very thing that R-Kansas wants to mandate at Reynold's Stadium. All these stadiums, all these check downs, all this homeland fear in the modern world and R-Kansas thinks, hey it's 2017 and a crowded stadium, filled with fanatics, let's lock and load, what could go wrong?

 

[BamaFan334]

The reality is that the right to bear arms isn't a right if an establishment says you can't come in with a gun. You can choose not to come in, but then nothing absolute about your right to bear arms. And so it's always been with all these wonderful rights we hold so dearly. No such thing as absolute.

You know when these gate people are going through all our stuff, they are actually looking for the very thing that R-Kansas wants to mandate at Reynold's Stadium. All these stadiums, all these check downs, all this homeland fear in the modern world and R-Kansas thinks, hey it's 2017 and a crowded stadium, filled with fanatics, let's lock and load, what could go wrong?

Yeah, cause those gate guys are paid good money and do such a great job. How much alcohol gets past them? I don't mind using that topic again.

I agree with your first comment about following the rules of an establishment, but I also disagree with you in the fact that the bad guys don't give a shit about the establishment or your merry rules. I'm not saying break the rules in the name of fending off the bad guys that break the rules, but passing the law to be able to protect one's self is what the right to bear arms is all about and they are simply putting it in writing with the stipulation of safety classes. I'm guessing though that if it was going to be you or other guy, it's going to be you as you don't seem to want to be ready if/when it happens.

To be fair to the legal gun toting folks out there, they're not the ones you need to worry about. It's the ones that want to cause harm are the ones you have to worry about. This doesn't mean 80,000 guns are going to be inside the stadium, and I highly doubt it changes anything at all amongst the students and common folks, so getting all bent out of shape is really all you're doing here.

 

[planomateo]

@Birdman37 Your analogy equating meth and carrying doesn't really add up. Meth is illegal; carrying isn't.

How is carrying meth not illegal?

Read that again...

 

[planomateo]

:rolf:

 

[JoshB]

Read that again...

What would you like me to re-read? You said meth is illegal, carrying it isnt?

 

[pignjig17]

Nothing wrong with a RESPONSIBLE gun owner and CONCEALED carry in any venue, But with this law it gives those who are not responsible the ability to be around us carrying now. I put it like this. I have concealed carried a hand gun into the local Walmart for years, no one knew but myself and my family, Open carry has been legal in Alabama for years, but no one did it because Walmart would call the police and they would arrest you for, not open carry, but public endangerment, or inciting fear, or whatever they could come up with. Alabama changed the law a couple years ago and they cant do that anymore. Last week a guy in walmart was walking in the grocery section with what looked like a 10inch barreled revolver in a tiny loop holster on his side. Every step he took the gun was flopping back and forth all over the place. I asked him why and he said because I can and its cool and none of my business. There is nothing responsible about this situation. There is always a bad apple in every cart who makes it hard on the rest of us.

 

[planomateo]

What would you like me to re-read? You said meth is illegal, carrying it isnt?

Don't be an asshat.

You mentioned meth, TheChief replied, then you replied. I was pointing out you need to read what he said.

I never said shit about meth until right f'ing now.

 

[TerryP]

@Birdman37 In this thread, that does seem to be the general feeling. If someone wants to, they will. I don't see how you're pulling strawman out of that.

You're points are murky--which I believe is due to your use of a strawman argument.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
​

I wasn't arguing with his notion that if someone wants to carry, and aren't allowed to by law, that'll stop them. That's the case.

My point is a simple one and it's pretty clear in my post. It's not Fox Sports "duty" to tell the NCAA they need to step in and do something about Arkansas state law. It's not the NCAA job to do so.

The NCAA has no business getting involved with state politics.

 

[18Champs]

ARKANSAS FANS DON’T NEED GUNS

It’s a longtime stated belief of this website: The most insane fans by degree and context in the SEC are Arkansas fans. Alabama fans are obsessed, yes, but their obsession at least has a tangible, reasonable action/reward system that keeps the whole thing working. LSU fans, while not sane, have a similar if not quite as productive positive feedback loop working with the Tigers as well as a significant cultural element keeping their fandom alive. (i.e. “It’s perfectly acceptable to show up for a Saturday game on Thursday night, cook on the Parade Grounds, and live your life from a tailgate for at least 21 days not counting road games during the season.”)

Arkansas, however: Man, Arkansas fans follow and love and stay devoted to a team often good enough to give them hope, and then bad enough to invalidate the concept of hope itself. There are a thousand angles to take on the issue of letting football fans period carry guns into a stadium, but let’s start with this one. Pretend it doesn’t apply to anyone in particular, even if all of this sounds like an Arkansas fan.

Take a person. Place them in a largely rural state with the standard Southeastern mix of societal factors like loads of hunting, income inequality, an affinity for hefty incarceration rates and the death penalty, and violence. Give them a generational and cultural bond with a football team, the only football team for miles around in an NFL-free state. Put them in a conference noted for corruption and lunatic behavior, and then move them into another conference noted for normalized corruption and even more lunatic behavior. Make the level of competition absolutely savage.

Do not give them the proximity to huge talent bases. Do not give them a booster corps and state government 100% devoted at all costs to making football great, like oh just picking one at random OH HOW BOUT ALABAMA.


That’s a pretty mean cage to put this fan in, but it doesn’t sound too different from other SEC fans’ basic setups. The difference with Arkansas fans: the sticks they got and get poked with, which are sharper than most and relentless.

To name a few:

Give that team one real brush with a national title, and make sure they lose in mindbreaking fashion. Give them a spell with Lou Holtz, and see how that ends. (Predictably!) Move them into the SEC West, where they have to compete with Alabama and everyone else in the division year in and year out. Put them through some of the strangest coaching hires and tenures of any team over the past two decades.

Make sure these strange hires include the inexplicable near-excellence of Houston Nutt, a promising stint by Bobby Petrino that ended when he literally fell off a motorcycle with his mistress on the back, and a lost season under John L. Smith that didn’t even qualify as scrimmage-level football that they actually paid John L. Smith to only do for one season. By design! They did that on purpose, y’all. Pay Bret Bielema four million dollars to go 25-26 and be very, very likable while losing to Auburn 56-3 in the calendar year 2016, but also hammering Florida 31-10? That all happened, and it just happened in the last year.


If you want vintage, remind Arkansas fans about their coach getting fired the day after losing to Citadel at home. There’s no bottom here. Make sure your history isn’t bad enough to scare people off, but is just good enough to keep fans on the hook forever.

Have this happen, too.

Now, after considering all that: Of all the people you want to have guns in a stadium, are these the best choice for this bold experiment in American freedom? We’re not saying Arkansas fans are inherently insane. We are saying: it’s not your fault, because your football team made you this way.

 

[JoshB]

@Birdman37 In this thread, that does seem to be the general feeling. If someone wants to, they will. I don't see how you're pulling strawman out of that.

You're points are murky--which I believe is due to your use of a strawman argument.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
​

I wasn't arguing with his notion that if someone wants to carry, and aren't allowed to by law, that'll stop them. That's the case.

My point is a simple one and it's pretty clear in my post. It's not Fox Sports "duty" to tell the NCAA they need to step in and do something about Arkansas state law. It's not the NCAA job to do so.

The NCAA has no business getting involved with state politics.

You're arguing that people will do what they wont, regardless of the law/rule so there is no point in the rule/law. That is a strawman.

And Fox Sports isnt telling the NCAA anything. Chris Strauss (a Fox writer) is giving an opinion in an opinion article. Unless you think Fox should censor their OPINION writers OPINION? Actually lets go with that, as long as that carries over to Fox News too