🏈 Jameis Winston is being investigated for sexual assault

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember the Duke lacrosse players getting arrested and charged before being vindicated in a situation that was basically a setup. Very different than what happened with Winston, regardless of whether it was consensual or a rape.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

I actually hope FSU and OSU both lose and we play you guys again.

That would be the perfect scenario, and while there has been some strange business happen in the past couple of years... there is NO WAY, NO WAY this happens. I did see where some Vegas odds maker had it at a 1% chance.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

Then again, maybe the perfect scenario would be for us to play Missouri, so that auburn doesn't get the satisfaction of an SEC Championship. :lol:

 

[russb8903]

I just meant it felt like Duke in that there was someone, probably innocent, that was crucified by a media that wanted to make a story. The Duke example was of course far worse.

 

[bama alum]

I didn't get to watch the presser, but a friend of mine told me that a reporter actually asked Meggs if Alabama was somehow involved in all this.

Seriously?!?

Sorry, not Meggs. It was the victim's lawyer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23nwdMXnTS4

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

Sorry, not Meggs. It was the victim's lawyer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23nwdMXnTS4

A radio intern if I saw correctly.

 

[foshman]

I just meant it felt like Duke in that there was someone, probably innocent, that was crucified by a media that wanted to make a story. The Duke example was of course far worse.

This is now a story of legal innocence vs factual innocence. Winston is, as of now, legally innocent. Whether or not he is factually innocent will probably remain unknown so people have to decide for themselves until there is either a civil trial or new evidence that causes the state to prosecute.

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the victim unless I feel there is a compelling reason not to. In this case I have yet to see a compelling reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that this happened.

 

[JoshB]

This is now a story of legal innocence vs factual innocence. Winston is, as of now, legally innocent. Whether or not he is factually innocent will probably remain unknown so people have to decide for themselves until there is either a civil trial or new evidence that causes the state to prosecute.

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the victim unless I feel there is a compelling reason not to. In this case I have yet to see a compelling reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that this happened.

To me... that she acknowledged drinking heavily the night before and then even got on his "scooter" after the supposed assault and he dropped her off somewhere looked bad for her case.

 

[rocknthefreeworld]

To me... that she acknowledged drinking heavily the night before and then even got on his "scooter" after the supposed assault and he dropped her off somewhere looked bad for her case.

Except that in many places, Florida included if I remember correctly, an intoxicated person is not capable of giving consent and therefore sex with them is rape. It might be a crappy law, but it is the law.

 

[JoshB]

And if he was drunk too? They raped each other? Yeah.... okay...

 

[foshman]

To me... that she acknowledged drinking heavily the night before and then even got on his "scooter" after the supposed assault and he dropped her off somewhere looked bad for her case.

I think a lot of people feel this way. I would encourage you to examine this concept further. Her actions before or after the act of saying "no" are irrelevant. One "no" trumps an infinite number of "yes's." It has to, and it does legally. Beyond that I doubt either of us will ever understand how deeply women are effected by the possibility of rape.

To put it bluntly, I have spent exactly 0% of my life worrying about, planning for, or guarding against being raped. I spend slightly more time worried about being physically attacked, maybe .000001% of my life and it's usually situational. A large percentage of women I know are concerned with these factors every time they walk alone at night, every time they dress up and go out, every time they drink a little. As it turns out they should be since 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. You can't expect someone living in that reality to always behave in a manner that appears rational to those that do not.

Maybe she took a scooter ride because she didn't want to get attacked again walking home. Maybe she took the ride so that he didn't get suspicious of her. Maybe she took the scooter ride so that she could get to the emergency room earlier.

We'll probably never know her reasons but I would strongly encourage you to learn to empathize with women on this issue. I don't think JW set out to "rape" this girl. I think he thought he eventually talked her into it. He's seemingly not a sociopath. I also doubt he understands empathy towards women. He probably doesn't understand the legal standards of what rape is - most men don't. He probably has no idea that what he did was wrong. None of that makes what he did "not rape."

 

[JoshB]

I think a lot of people feel this way. I would encourage you to examine this concept further. Her actions before or after the act of saying "no" are irrelevant. One "no" trumps an infinite number of "yes's." It has to, and it does legally. Beyond that I doubt either of us will ever understand how deeply women are effected by the possibility of rape.

To put it bluntly, I have spent exactly 0% of my life worrying about, planning for, or guarding against being raped. I spend slightly more time worried about being physically attacked, maybe .000001% of my life and it's usually situational. A large percentage of women I know are concerned with these factors every time they walk alone at night, every time they dress up and go out, every time they drink a little. As it turns out they should be since 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. You can't expect someone living in that reality to always behave in a manner that appears rational to those that do not.

Maybe she took a scooter ride because she didn't want to get attacked again walking home. Maybe she took the ride so that he didn't get suspicious of her. Maybe she took the scooter ride so that she could get to the emergency room earlier.

We'll probably never know her reasons but I would strongly encourage you to learn to empathize with women on this issue. I don't think JW set out to "rape" this girl. I think he thought he eventually talked her into it. He's seemingly not a sociopath. I also doubt he understands empathy towards women. He probably doesn't understand the legal standards of what rape is - most men don't. He probably has no idea that what he did was wrong. None of that makes what he did "not rape."

Dont take my opinion on the matter as if I dont empathize with women on it, I do. And rapists along with someone that would hurt a child are the lowest level of scumbags in my opinion. And like you said I can never truly understand how that feels, but at the same time I also empathize with the MANY, MANY false rape cases. How many times have girls blamed guys, for whatever reason, of assaulting them whether sexual or not and it end up coming out that it never happened. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions but at the same time are you not doing the same the opposite way? We will probably never know the truth and that is unfortunate.

 

[foshman]

Dont take my opinion on the matter as if I dont empathize with women on it, I do. And rapists along with someone that would hurt a child are the lowest level of scumbags in my opinion. And like you said I can never truly understand how that feels, but at the same time I also empathize with the MANY, MANY false rape cases. How many times have girls blamed guys, for whatever reason, of assaulting them whether sexual or not and it end up coming out that it never happened. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions but at the same time are you not doing the same the opposite way? We will probably never know the truth and that is unfortunate.

I totally appreciate what you are saying. I wanted to point out that a lot of men don't understand what rape encompasses. A rape can be consensual in the eyes of the attacker which is why the law recognizes the POV of the victim as being the litmus test.

I am absolutely making a judgement about this case based on what I know - which I think is fine. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I know what happened that night but I am objective enough to put the pieces of the puzzle together in the way that makes the most sense to me. I think you are doing the same thing. I was just trying to get you to challenge what you consider acceptable behavior on the part of a potential rape victim.

As for the false rape accusations, I doubt 1 in 5 men is falsely accused of rape. If they are it will not cause PTSD or deep long term emotional turbulence.

I would rather we err on the side of the non invasive violent act and deal with the other issues as they pop up.

 

[PhillyGirl]

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[PhillyGirl]

I sincerely hope that none of you believe there are more fake rape cases than real. The majority of rapes (both male and female) actually go unreported because of societal pressure, shame, etc. and 99% of reported rapes are real.

As a 23 year old woman, 6 of my friends my age (5 female, 1 male) have been raped and/or sexually assaulted. I was almost raped once in college. And I was one of several students sexually harassed/inappropriately touched by a teacher in 7th grade, as I mentioned in a previous post, and nobody believed us. We were accused of making it all up to sabotage a "good Christian man". Some of those students are still in therapy for that event.

Rape, sexual assault, etc isn't a joke. A few idiots who report false rapes for attention or their five seconds of fame or to destroy someone else's life should NOT lead to victim blaming or disbelieving the majority.

Re: this incident .. If she did indeed say NO at any point, even if they were already engaged in the act, or if she'd given every indication she wanted it until that point, and he continued to have sex with her, that is rape.

But we will never know for sure one way or another in this case.

I hope he learned from the incident to be careful and also to not cheat on his girlfriend. I hope that they both learned to watch their alcohol. And i hope that they both receive any help they need in getting past this.

 

[JoshB]

^^ Please dont think that Im suggesting that there are more false rapes than actual rapes. I was simply saying that we've seen this enough times with athletes that it makes you maybe question it when you wouldnt otherwise.

 

[foshman]

I sincerely hope that none of you believe there are more fake rape cases than real. The majority of rapes (both male and female) actually go unreported because of societal pressure, shame, etc. and 99% of reported rapes are real.

As a 23 year old woman, 6 of my friends my age (5 female, 1 male) have been raped and/or sexually assaulted. I was almost raped once in college. And I was one of several students sexually harassed/inappropriately touched by a teacher in 7th grade, as I mentioned in a previous post, and nobody believed us. We were accused of making it all up to sabotage a "good Christian man". Some of those students are still in therapy for that event.

Rape, sexual assault, etc isn't a joke. A few idiots who report false rapes for attention or their five seconds of fame or to destroy someone else's life should NOT lead to victim blaming or disbelieving the majority.

Re: this incident .. If she did indeed say NO at any point, even if they were already engaged in the act, or if she'd given every indication she wanted it until that point, and he continued to have sex with her, that is rape.

But we will never know for sure one way or another in this case.

I hope he learned from the incident to be careful and also to not cheat on his girlfriend. I hope that they both learned to watch their alcohol. And i hope that they both receive any help they need in getting past this.

If this was facebook I would "like" this post. I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence and I even hold out hope that he can actually learn that what he did was wrong (or at least appears to be wrong) and maybe even become an advocate for victims of sexual assault/abuse. Both of these kids are going to have a lot of work to do to get past what happened a year ago. I hope they do.

 

[foshman]

^^ Please dont think that Im suggesting that there are more false rapes than actual rapes. I was simply saying that we've seen this enough times with athletes that it makes you maybe question it when you wouldnt otherwise.

I think we've seen it once for certain (Duke Lacrosse.) I think it has been used as a convenient excuse when a jury couldn't convict a rapist many other times.

And I don't think you are purposely trivializing or dismissing what happened. I just think your definition of 'rape' might not be as rigorous as mine and a is little outdated. You have that in common with the vast majority of dudes I know. I wish everyone could see this issue as I do and it is an important enough issue for me to push the dialogue to the front when I can.

I mean no disrespect to you.

 

[RollllTide!]

I am close to this issue because I have 2 loves of my life that have gone through rape and sexual abuse. If this was my sister, wife, or daughter I would take whatever steps it would take to get to the truth. This girl will have mental issues the rest of her life. Rape or sexual abuse has little to do with sex. It has to do with a sick mind that has an unnatural feeling of love and relationships. If a lot of alcohol was involved then that makes it even more sick. It could also be caused from abuse as a child from beatings, or sexual abuse. When one says it was consensual and the other one says it was not, I can assure you that I believe it was rape because there is no way that girl would put herself through the public gauntlet for any other reason. They were not romantically involved so why would she file a complaint. At that time he was not the BMOC that he is one year later.

I have spent many years trying to help the love of my life get over that feeling. The scars are still there....

 

[JoshB]

I think we've seen it once for certain (Duke Lacrosse.) I think it has been used as a convenient excuse when a jury couldn't convict a rapist many other times.

And I don't think you are purposely trivializing or dismissing what happened. I just think your definition of 'rape' might not be as rigorous as mine and a is little outdated. You have that in common with the vast majority of dudes I know. I wish everyone could see this issue as I do and it is an important enough issue for me to push the dialogue to the front when I can.

I mean no disrespect to you.

Just off the top of my head I thought of the Duke case and Kobe Bryant. To me "rape" would be a guy forcing himself onto a girl regardless of anything else, if she says "no" she means no. But if you got two drunk people that have sex, no I dont consider that rape. If a guy takes advantage of a drunk girl, thats pretty damn close to rape.