If Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens aren't inducted into the baseball HOF, is it really the Hall of Fame?

[TerryP]

Tim Kurkjian, MLB analyst for ESPN, mentions there's three years left for either man to be inducted into the HOF. By reports, support for both is growing.

There are still gains to be made for Bonds and Clemens, but only three years to get to the required 75%. After 10 years on the BBWAA ballot, players are no longer eligible to be voted in by the writers. They fall into what used to be known as the veteran’s committee, a much more intimate selection process with a 16-person panel of Hall of Famers and contributors throughout the game.

A question was posed at the end of last nights Sportscenter, "if they aren't inducted, is it truly a baseball Hall of Fame?" Salient point, in my opinion. A lot of controversy with both players; to that, there is no argument. A lot of that controversy defines their career(s) but doesn't take away the fame they earned while playing baseball.

I get the notions that anyone using PED's should "have an asterisk beside their names." That alone doesn't take away from what they accomplished, does it?

I'm not a big MLB fan. I really don't have a dog in this hunt. But I have to admit, it sure seems like a good question to ask...and consider seriously.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

But using PEDs helped them accomplish what they did. Do you put them in with no mention of their statistics? Wipe those statistics out entirely? Someone, somewhere will always know their statistics though.

I also agree that Bonds and Clemens were HOFers before they started using the stuff. What about Palmeiro? He would have been very close to 3,000 hits without the stuff.

 

[ComeOnSon]

Hasn’t been a Hall of Fame in years. It’s now a Hall of Very Good. Martinez nor Mussina should be in.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

It's become the Hall of the Very Good or the Hall of the Good for a long time and not just a Hall of Fame of baseball greats.

 

[BamaFan334]

Ok, well, were Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens without steroids?

 

[PurlJam]

Ok, well, were Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens without steroids?

Before

After.... you be the judge.

 

[rammerjammer]

Athletics has always been about gaining an edge. I bet if roids would have been accessible to guys like Ruth, Cobb, Maris, Mays, Mantle, DiMaggio, they would have done it too. I have no problem with Bonds and Clemens getting into the HOF.

I have zero use for baseball and the pious sports writers that feel the need to look down their noses at guys that bent the rules to the breaking point, but didn't do anything outside the confines of what MLB allows. At the time that these guys were juicing, there was no rules against it, per se'...........but this is not my caveat for my disdain for MLB. Pete Rose being black balled is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in all of sports. What is an absolute shame, is that he will eventually get in, but it will most likely be posthumously when all the voters have been purged. An absolute travesty IMO.

 

[scottyhk]

I haven't really had a high opinion of baseball HOF in a long while. If you're gonna argue for Bonds, Clemens, etc....there shouldn't be an argument against Charlie Hustle.

 

[planomateo]

But using PEDs helped them accomplish what they did. Do you put them in with no mention of their statistics? Wipe those statistics out entirely? Someone, somewhere will always know their statistics though.

I also agree that Bonds and Clemens were HOFers before they started using the stuff. What about Palmeiro? He would have been very close to 3,000 hits without the stuff.

MLB enabled it when they needed baseball viewers.

 

[BamaFan334]

Athletics has always been about gaining an edge. I bet if roids would have been accessible to guys like Ruth, Cobb, Maris, Mays, Mantle, DiMaggio, they would have done it too. I have no problem with Bonds and Clemens getting into the HOF.

I have zero use for baseball and the pious sports writers that feel the need to look down their noses at guys that bent the rules to the breaking point, but didn't do anything outside the confines of what MLB allows. At the time that these guys were juicing, there was no rules against it, per se'...........but this is not my caveat for my disdain for MLB. Pete Rose being black balled is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in all of sports. What is an absolute shame, is that he will eventually get in, but it will most likely be posthumously when all the voters have been purged. An absolute travesty IMO.

You have absolutely lost me here. You have no problem with guys breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage? You base your opinion on "I bet if". Life in general used to be a lot more honest and straight forward back in the day, so I don't think you can say with any sort of assurance that the greatest players to ever play would have or would have even needed steroids. Your lack of interest in baseball has allowed you to just not care, which is totally different than a true opinion on the matter. I played baseball through my first couple of years in college, love the sport, but hate freaking watching it, except for the Playoffs. There is no fun watching people cheat no matter what the event is. Were you ok when Ole Miss, USC, or Miami was cheating? It's just not realistic or even fun, atleast I think that way. Might as well have robots playing if cheating is ok.

 

[Tidestalker]

Baseball writers are weird... Lots of do-gooders out there voting on beliefs and not facts.

Not so much Barry and Roger, but the guys they will allow in may or may not have cheated either. Larry Walker for example got a huge uptick in voting... And as a Rockies fan, it would be hard for me to think he wasn't on the juice either. But, he was a likable dude. I guess that's the difference for the old guard of baseball writers...

 

[ElephantStomp]

I’ve always had a deep love for baseball, it’s my favorite sport by far!!

The HOF is and has been a joke for a long time! Clemens and Bonds should be in the hall. The idea that Mussina is in before Clemons is an absolute joke

 

[#80]

I hope the known cheaters Clemens, Bonds etc. never get in. There numbers are tainted.

 

[planomateo]

MLB is as much to blame as the players.

 

[Tidestalker]

I hope the known cheaters Clemens, Bonds etc. never get in. There numbers are tainted.

Interesting you added "known" in there...

 

[#80]

I hope the known cheaters Clemens, Bonds etc. never get in. There numbers are tainted.

Interesting you added "known" in there...

I suspect some that got in without getting caught like J. Bagwell. Are you disputing Bonds and Clemens didn't use PED's.

 

[94 Grad]

The HoF is a popularity contest... if they are not popular enough to get in due to whatever reason, they shouldn't get in. Who cares about the HoF any way...

 

[BamaFan334]

MLB is as much to blame as the players.

Still doesn't make it right. Have some morals for goodness sake. Not you, but the players. The players knew it was wrong, so it's on them. Now if Major League Baseball said they could do them and wouldn't get in trouble, that's one thing, but I don't think that's what happened.

 

[TUSKtimes]

If life was black and white it's an easy decision. NO!!!

If you take the time to consider the history of PEDs in sports it gets a lot more gray, with a chance of ongoing severe thunderstorms. Some type of steroids has been in use back to the ancient Greeks 2000 years ago in the original Olympics. In fact, it is where the term Doping (or specifically doop) was first coined. But to bring the so-called menace to modern society and apply it to sports in general, steroids and amphetamines have had a long and abusive history in sports.


Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and others often spoke about amphetamines in a liquid drink that was available constantly in the locker room. Look it up, it's all there. And it was prevalent and effective and a bunch of sports writers saw it in lockers and on tables and some reported it. Speed will speed up a bat and everything else my friends. There is a very simple reason the best of the best players of the 50s, 60, haven't condemned Barry Bonds and those who have been on PEDs.

What are Bonds and Clements and A-Rod and the rest of the tainted ones really guilty of? They lived in a time where they finally started testing for all kinds of PEDs in baseball and even then someone during that testing era, a confidant, who often supplied, turned them in. Otherwise, we still wouldn't know about it today and they would be in the HOF.

 

[Tidestalker]

I hope the known cheaters Clemens, Bonds etc. never get in. There numbers are tainted.

Interesting you added "known" in there...

I suspect some that got in without getting caught like J. Bagwell. Are you disputing Bonds and Clemens didn't use PED's.

Absolutely not... But do guys like Bagwell, Larry Walker, Todd Helton get a pass because someone didn't snitch them out? Despite the numbers spike that pretty clearly shows a trend towards PED use?