🏈 I figure this will be entertaining--fire away

[bamafan4ever]

As for the D, I gather Thig will be Ted Roofed and Pelton probably goes. Anything on the defensive side changes if what I've heard about BVG being pissed is true. If he stays the only defensive coach that is safe is Martinez.

I swear Willie Martinez has more than 9 lives! He was on BVG's staff while at UGA and had a modicum of success but when Uncle Rico parted ways with the Dawgs, only to find he was over his head at Ga Southern, Martinez almost single handed brought the UGA defense to its knees. It looks like OU didn't fare much better with him coaching their secondary last year. I hope the guy stays at AU forever for selfish reason!

 

[Duder]

As for the D, I gather Thig will be Ted Roofed and Pelton probably goes. Anything on the defensive side changes if what I've heard about BVG being pissed is true. If he stays the only defensive coach that is safe is Martinez.

I swear Willie Martinez has more than 9 lives! He was on BVG's staff while at UGA and had a modicum of success but when Uncle Rico parted ways with the Dawgs, only to find he was over his head at Ga Southern, Martinez almost single handed brought the UGA defense to its knees. It looks like OU didn't fare much better with him coaching their secondary last year. I hope the guy stays at AU forever for selfish reason!

I don't think the secondary has been horrible this year. They've certainly improved.

 

['65 Cobra]

There are probably 1,000 different answers to this question; I'll give you mine.

First and foremost--Pat Dye is NOT just a fan. I'm an AU fan. I was recruited to play football at Auburn. I'm not allowed free reign at the athletic department. I certainly don't have an office down there.

It will sound like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth at times because this is a rather complicated answer. But the easy part, I say Gene is a good guy because he is. I've spoken with him a few times. The Christian/"God Thing" stuff isn't a show. Poorly worded as it is at times, his religion factors heavily into his life.

Now on to Dye--he is a staunch supporter or Chizik because A) he was a great defensive coach B) he could have some measure of influence and was welcome, unlike during Tuberville's era. I wouldn't go so far as to say Chizik is a puppet but Dye doesn't just come observe. He doesn't have the ultimate power many imply, but he's not an innocent by-stander by any stretch.

Why is Dye allowed around and have any stroke? Why is Chizik safe? Jay Jacobs. Jay played for Coach Dye. Dye allowed him to walk-on then gave him a scholarship. They are tight. It isn't the Dye/Chizik dynamic that needs to be looked at, it is Dye/Jacobs. This my stern belief Jay needs to go.

We have recruited on par with you guys and LSU for the last what, 3-4 years? There is no excuse for the level of play. I don't care if Kiehl was an option QB in high school. An open receiver looks the same regardless of scheme, no? Malzahn ran the ball--A LOT. The line shouldn't be struggling this bad. We shouldn't have the level of off-field problems we have. We don't have strong leadership on the team or from the coaches. Without strong leadership, that many egos are sure to flare at some point. I blame Chizik and Jacobs. I just think Dye needs to go hunt and fish all day. Let him have his weekly spot on Finebaum, let him on the field or in the box at home games but keep him the hell out of offices.

I think I managed to get through that without contradicting myself. That answer your question?

That does, indeed, answer my question. And well done I would add. Thank you for your candor and thoroughness - appreciated - and a very interesting read. After reading your response, I would have to agree about Jay Jacobs. Seems like the ship is ready for a new captain. If they do that soon enough, there is still plenty of talent to work with. At the end of the day, it's better of us, the State, and the SEC when Auburn is viable no matter how much of a Bammer I am.

 

[UAgrad93]

Not being overlooked, per se, just not a deal breaker. We're going to hemorrhage cash if we keep losing.

Plus, it isn't a lump payment. It is paid over the remainder of his contract.

I realize that it isn't in a lump payment. My thinking is that the powers that be are hoping to get though this year and next so his buyout would drop substantially from 7.5 to 2.5 million. That saving of 5 mil would be better served toward a new contract and a new HC. I don't think they want to payoff Chiz at 7.5 mil for the duration of contract if fired AND add to that another contract of 3.5-4 mil a year for a new HC.

 

[TerryP]

....

We have recruited on par with you guys and LSU for the last what, 3-4 years? There is no excuse for the level of play. I don't care if Kiehl was an option QB in high school. An open receiver looks the same regardless of scheme, no? Malzahn ran the ball--A LOT. The line shouldn't be struggling this bad. We shouldn't have the level of off-field problems we have. We don't have strong leadership on the team or from the coaches. Without strong leadership, that many egos are sure to flare at some point. I blame Chizik and Jacobs. I just think Dye needs to go hunt and fish all day. Let him have his weekly spot on Finebaum, let him on the field or in the box at home games but keep him the hell out of offices.

I think I managed to get through that without contradicting myself. That answer your question?

I don't see it that way. In fact, the end result is much like the classes Tuberville recruited.

AU's classes have been ranked highly like UA's and LSU's, but the aforementioned lack of development can't upstage the number of those players who aren't with the program any longer. I've seen a few list a number of 48 or 49 kids who were signed but are no longer with the program. Tubs had players who had issues qualifying—not it's a retention problem.

Both issues start with how they are selected and recruited.

 

[UAgrad93]

I don't see it that way. In fact, the end result is much like the classes Tuberville recruited.

AU's classes have been ranked highly like UA's and LSU's, but the aforementioned lack of development can't upstage the number of those players who aren't with the program any longer. I've seen a few list a number of 48 or 49 kids who were signed but are no longer with the program. Tubs had players who had issues qualifying—not it's a retention problem.

Both issues start with how they are selected and recruited.

I have to agree with you Terry. It seems that a few on staff there have recruited and signed "characters with talent" rather than signing "character kids" with talent.

 

[Duder]

(null)

I'm speaking about talent alone. Even the kids that are gone were talented. We've just royally shi.t the bed when it comes to evaluating character and coaching up the talent once we get it. End result? You're dead on, however. I think even the kids that got in trouble would've been better served by strong leadership. I will use you guys as an example. Several (not a lot, but some) kids had checkered pasts when recruited. The difference is how they were handled once they got there. I've spoken with several former Saban players that credit him with helping them pull their head out of their ass.

I'm saying we evaluated talent well, at least in the eyes of national pundits. When we get then we either don't develop them at all or lack the leadership to make them WANT to adhere to the guidelines set forth for the team.

Make more sense?

 

[TerryP]

I'm speaking about talent alone. Even the kids that are gone were talented. We've just royally shi.t the bed when it comes to evaluating character and coaching up the talent once we get it. End result? You're dead on, however. I think even the kids that got in trouble would've been better served by strong leadership. I will use you guys as an example. Several (not a lot, but some) kids had checkered pasts when recruited. The difference is how they were handled once they got there. I've spoken with several former Saban players that credit him with helping them pull their head out of their ass.

I'm saying we evaluated talent well, at least in the eyes of national pundits. When we get then we either don't develop them at all or lack the leadership to make them WANT to adhere to the guidelines set forth for the team.

Make more sense?

There have been some good athletes sign; no doubt. Hell, I'd love to have guys like Lutz and Blake on our roster.

 

[cjaytch]

There have been some good athletes sign; no doubt. Hell, I'd love to have guys like Lutz and Blake on our roster.

I remember seeing recruiting vids of Lutz and thinking "why arent we recruiting this guy".

 

[Duder]

Not being overlooked, per se, just not a deal breaker. We're going to hemorrhage cash if we keep losing.

Plus, it isn't a lump payment. It is paid over the remainder of his contract.

I realize that it isn't in a lump payment. My thinking is that the powers that be are hoping to get though this year and next so his buyout would drop substantially from 7.5 to 2.5 million. That saving of 5 mil would be better served toward a new contract and a new HC. I don't think they want to payoff Chiz at 7.5 mil for the duration of contract if fired AND add to that another contract of 3.5-4 mil a year for a new HC.

If I had my way I'd can Jacobs, give Chizik and Loeffler another year and pay Van Gorder whatever he wants along with letting him decide his assistants. That would give an AD that does not have his head up Due's ass one season to evaluate/correct or replace the staff.

Jacobs and Dye don't need to be st Auburn anymore than Terry does.

 

[Duder]

There are probably 1,000 different answers to this question; I'll give you mine.

First and foremost--Pat Dye is NOT just a fan. I'm an AU fan. I was recruited to play football at Auburn. I'm not allowed free reign at the athletic department. I certainly don't have an office down there.

It will sound like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth at times because this is a rather complicated answer. But the easy part, I say Gene is a good guy because he is. I've spoken with him a few times. The Christian/"God Thing" stuff isn't a show. Poorly worded as it is at times, his religion factors heavily into his life.

Now on to Dye--he is a staunch supporter or Chizik because A) he was a great defensive coach B) he could have some measure of influence and was welcome, unlike during Tuberville's era. I wouldn't go so far as to say Chizik is a puppet but Dye doesn't just come observe. He doesn't have the ultimate power many imply, but he's not an innocent by-stander by any stretch.

Why is Dye allowed around and have any stroke? Why is Chizik safe? Jay Jacobs. Jay played for Coach Dye. Dye allowed him to walk-on then gave him a scholarship. They are tight. It isn't the Dye/Chizik dynamic that needs to be looked at, it is Dye/Jacobs. This my stern belief Jay needs to go.

We have recruited on par with you guys and LSU for the last what, 3-4 years? There is no excuse for the level of play. I don't care if Kiehl was an option QB in high school. An open receiver looks the same regardless of scheme, no? Malzahn ran the ball--A LOT. The line shouldn't be struggling this bad. We shouldn't have the level of off-field problems we have. We don't have strong leadership on the team or from the coaches. Without strong leadership, that many egos are sure to flare at some point. I blame Chizik and Jacobs. I just think Dye needs to go hunt and fish all day. Let him have his weekly spot on Finebaum, let him on the field or in the box at home games but keep him the hell out of offices.

I think I managed to get through that without contradicting myself. That answer your question?

That does, indeed, answer my question. And well done I would add. Thank you for your candor and thoroughness - appreciated - and a very interesting read. After reading your response, I would have to agree about Jay Jacobs. Seems like the ship is ready for a new captain. If they do that soon enough, there is still plenty of talent to work with. At the end of the day, it's better of us, the State, and the SEC when Auburn is viable no matter how much of a Bammer I am.

There is talent, no doubt. New system or not, there is no excuse for us looking as bad as we do.

And yes, the season is much more fun when we're both good. Dave 2010, when was the last time we had a meaningful Iron Bowl? For the last several years our respective games with LSU garnered more attention. That's ridiculous. And 2 of the last 4 Iron Bowls we've gotten crushed, 3 out of 5 in a few weeks. This is unacceptable. The coaching staff did a great job sheltering the 2010 te from distractions. That team could've crumbled. But on the field? Bee had a Demi-God at QB and an unblock able Nick Fairley. I've been told straight out that Fairley was the reason play calling changed in the 2nd half in 2010 by more than one Bama player. What has this staff done on the field that you can credit gameplan? The 2009 close loss to Bama. That's it. Not much to brag about

 

[TerryP]

If I had my way I'd can Jacobs, give Chizik and Loeffler another year and pay Van Gorder whatever he wants along with letting him decide his assistants. That would give an AD that does not have his head up Due's ass one season to evaluate/correct or replace the staff.

Jacobs and Dye don't need to be st Auburn anymore than Terry does.

I couldn't agree more with the last part of this sentence. :very_drunk:

 

[planomateo]

speaking of Chizik's buyout... http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2012/10/gene_chiziks_auburn_buyout_not.html#incart_river

If fired, there isn't a lump-sum payout, just a monthly payment of $202,702.70 for 37 months - if he finds another job, the next school pays for something and whatever the difference of $202k a month is, Auburn pays the diff.

 

[TerryP]

speaking of Chizik's buyout... http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2012/10/gene_chiziks_auburn_buyout_not.html#incart_river

If fired, there isn't a lump-sum payout, just a monthly payment of $202,702.70 for 37 months - if he finds another job, the next school pays for something and whatever the difference of $202k a month is, Auburn pays the diff.

There's the kicker.

Tubs had a similar agreement in place but they negotiated a lump sum payout.

They could do the same with Chizik. If they keep him from a month to month basis, it's going to severely cripple the Ath. Dept. revenue. Last year they were a tad over 3MM in the black for the year.

A lot seem to think Dooley is going as well. That may be. However, the thing to consider there is they profited less than 15K last year. You have to ask, how can they afford to switch?

 

[bamafan4ever]

I think BVG has reached Joe Lee Dunn status at a young age. Game has soared past him in many ways. If you feel your secondary has improved, it's because of talent, not because of WillieMart.

 

[bamatommy]

We have recruited on par with you guys and LSU for the last what, 3-4 years? There is no excuse for the level of play. I don't care if Kiehl was an option QB in high school. An open receiver looks the same regardless of scheme, no?

Bingo! :icon_cheers:

 

[bamatommy]

A lot seem to think Dooley is going as well. That may be. However, the thing to consider there is they profited less than 15K last year. You have to ask, how can they afford to switch?

$15,000? That's it?

 

[Duder]

I think BVG has reached Joe Lee Dunn status at a young age. Game has soared past him in many ways. If you feel your secondary has improved, it's because of talent, not because of WillieMart.

There hasn't been a talented Auburn secondary in many years, my friend.

I disagree on Van Gorder. There are some things we've consistently struggled with but he's literally never had to gameplan for a spread or zone-read option type attack. I'm willing to give him some time to adapt and prove he can't adjust before I say the game has soared past him. You may end up being right but for now, I'll wait and see.

As for Martinez, I've seen Auburn corners look for the damn ball for the first time since Rhoades for one season and before that...2004, I think? That's a good enough start for me. Yes, we've fallen that far.

 

[bamafan4ever]

There hasn't been a talented Auburn secondary in many years, my friend.

I disagree on Van Gorder. There are some things we've consistently struggled with but he's literally never had to gameplan for a spread or zone-read option type attack. I'm willing to give him some time to adapt and prove he can't adjust before I say the game has soared past him. You may end up being right but for now, I'll wait and see.

As for Martinez, I've seen Auburn corners look for the damn ball for the first time since Rhoades for one season and before that...2004, I think? That's a good enough start for me. Yes, we've fallen that far.

I am being rather hard on BVG, I'll admit. He did well for the Falcons and really, his only failure was at GSU. Now, Willie, sorry bro. He stunk it up here for a long time and about cost Richt his job. OU's secondary was nothing short of horrible last year. So where Williemart is concerened, we will just have to agree to disagree. Time will certainly tell but so far, 1-4.

 

[Duder]

I'm cautiously optimistic on Willie. To be frank, my first thought when he got hired was "at least our DBs will have some confidence." I remember watching the OU stuff last year and seeing the whole "shark" thing with their secondary. That's all I got.

I'm not saying I think he's good, per se. I'm hoping he'll do well under BVG. I promise 1-4 has about as much to do with our secondary as what I ate for breakfast does. He may flame out. The only time he's done well in his career was under BVG at UGA. Can't a guy hope?!