| FTBL Absolutely Coach Shula had to go

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
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When Shula was dismissed i was a little surprised , but after watching the Miss St replay today ,just that game in itself showed he needed to go. But other wonderful examples are

The game with 0-8 FIU where our first unit offense only produces 1 touchdown all day ,and we are only up on this bunch 10-3 at the half, FIUwent 0-11

Trailing an 0-5 Duke team at the half 14-10 and only leading 16-14 with less than 5 minutes to go in the game to another pitiful team who didnt win a game

Losing the other games we lost due to very very poor red zone production

Shula also coached the qbs ,and our last 2 best starters Croyle and Wilson are both well known for throwing off their back foot.

Its amazing but all the negative talk on Kines the last few yrs, his defense really kept us in every game last yr ,and really i thought with a lot of mirrorslast yr that his Bamas defense liked to have saved Shulas job.

I believe it was rumored that Shula met with Moore, and told him he wasnt removing any coaches ,but was moving them around (and that was is supposed down fall) There is absolutely no doubt changes were needed , thank god for Mal Moore.

Im looking for great improvement out of Parker Wilson this yr. I was still disappointed in him last yr , --I heard reports that he is now the leading passer in a Bama season for all time, but if thats the case it was only between the 20s and not the red zone , I think Applewhite tutoring him over Shula will be tremenous, along with offensive line improvement(see below)

Also i;ve mentioned before that im an ole High School offensive line coach,and the o-line probably had a lot to do with some of our offense woos. After Caldwell and Smith the O-line fell off quick, (Britt,Stabler and Davis were ok) but they definately have to find some one to replace Capps( I watched the replay of 2005 Tennesse game today where their end ran around Capps so fast at LT that the qb was already runing back to the line before he even got back to set up. Same for the Miss St game the next yr on the right side(He is just to slow with his feet). I have high hopes on Pendry and maybe this will help.Plus a RT with quick feet

The Bama team last yr , put no fear into any team they played , and that JUST ISNT BAMA FOOTBALL.(i can still see that Hawai mess coming to Tuscaloosa real cocky and leave the field disappointed after a close lose(the Fox show of June Jones bringing his team in). Heck they probably should have won.

I guess finally on Coach Shula i have a problem with a head coach who calls his plays(every play) has to look at a paper before he sends the play in, It would seem like he would have better awareness of what he would want to run in situations and get the play in.

Iknow i have gone into a rant with this post and im sorry, but after watching these replays today, i swear i wanted to throw up. Even the Tennessee game we won.

Praise the lord on the Coaching changes ,and im looking forward to seeing players play hard with Bama pride for 4 quarters again. RTR
 

firestorm

Verified Member
Extra Point Club
I think Shula did a great job at The Capstone, especially in terms of recruiting or that 10 win season (and the Cotton Bowl). He did an excellent job too in a dangerous programm's transition with a turmoil atmosphere (I'm grateful for his work at The Capstone), but that's insufficient and last season, his team's management at the field was poor, very poor, and not to win Auburn in four years during his tenure was the key too... I watched nearly each of the games last season, and we were too close in some games, but Shula failed in the little things which always makes the different. Look at the last Iron Bowl, I watched the replay some days ago, and actually we had a good chance to win the game. Remember that horrible first redzone trip after an excellent drive lead by JPW and DJ Hall or that try for two point conversion (fail) with our first TD... This are clear examples of his poor team's management on the field, however what I most liked of last season was the intensity and the pride which our players played the game. I hope, this season, with a better coach and a better team management at the sideline we'll have a great opportunity to do something special...

RTR
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
I can assure you. What you saw on the field wasn't what cost Shula his job. It was what was happening off of the field, and the results you saw on the field were simply a symptom of a far larger problem.

The notion a 10 win season means he was doing a good job is a notion that never fails to astound me. How on earth is that a sign of a good coaching job? Go back to the '20's and you'll find every coach, save one, have had seasons that we made that 10 win mark.

Consider, LSU has had 8 10 W seasons in their history. It's a starting point here, nothing more.

We gave him a pass on the first year. By the second year he was already losing control of the team. Much like DuBose had Alexander and Samuels lead the '99 team, Shula had players like DeMeco lead the '05 team.

Discipline? Didn't exist. Those "suspensions" you heard about were only a drop in the bucket compared to what should have been done.

Leadership from the staff? There are only two people I would put in that category, Woods and Kines. And, both of those weren't allowed to handle their respective players as they thought they should have been.

Did he get us through a tough period? Yes. Could we have hired a better coach from day one. MOST DEFINITELY.

From day one conversations I had revolved around, "at worse case scenario he'll get us through the probation period."

The question that needs to be asked if the program was in better shape after Shula was released or before he was hired. It was the later.
 

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Sideline Club
firestorm said:
I think Shula did a great job at The Capstone, especially in terms of recruiting or that 10 win season (and the Cotton Bowl). He did an excellent job too in a dangerous programm's transition with a turmoil atmosphere (I'm grateful for his work at The Capstone), but that's insufficient and last season, his team's management at the field was poor, very poor, and not to win Auburn in four years during his tenure was the key too... I watched nearly each of the games last season, and we were too close in some games, but Shula failed in the little things which always makes the different. Look at the last Iron Bowl, I watched the replay some days ago, and actually we had a good chance to win the game. Remember that horrible first redzone trip after an excellent drive lead by JPW and DJ Hall or that try for two point conversion (fail) with our first TD... This are clear examples of his poor team's management on the field, however what I most liked of last season was the intensity and the pride which our players played the game. I hope, this season, with a better coach and a better team management at the sideline we'll have a great opportunity to do something special...

RTR
i can agree with most of your post except except for the part where you mentioned intensity and pride. I feel it was lacking a lot.

Hawai game -pretty good intensity and pride
Vandy game- ok but had it lapses
Louisana Monroe,-absolutely none at all thank god they were awful
Arkansas=pretty good intensity and pride all game i thought
Florida- good intensity early, lost it big time late
Duke- see Loiusiana Monroe
Ole Miss- Ok intensity
Tennessee-good intensity
FIU and Miss St. we took to complete weeks off apparently, maybe just a tad of intensity in 3th quarter of Miss ST game
LSU-No intensity and were in a daze most of first quarter , but showed ok intensity after
Auburn-showed good intensity and pride
Oklahoma St showed good intensity and pride.

I guess my point is you only have like 12 games , you have to with intensity from jump street till finsh. I think it was lacked .
Coach Saban preaches this so we shall see.
 

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Sideline Club
firestorm said:
I think Shula did a great job at The Capstone, especially in terms of recruiting or that 10 win season (and the Cotton Bowl). He did an excellent job too in a dangerous programm's transition with a turmoil atmosphere (I'm grateful for his work at The Capstone), but that's insufficient and last season, his team's management at the field was poor, very poor, and not to win Auburn in four years during his tenure was the key too... I watched nearly each of the games last season, and we were too close in some games, but Shula failed in the little things which always makes the different. Look at the last Iron Bowl, I watched the replay some days ago, and actually we had a good chance to win the game. Remember that horrible first redzone trip after an excellent drive lead by JPW and DJ Hall or that try for two point conversion (fail) with our first TD... This are clear examples of his poor team's management on the field, however what I most liked of last season was the intensity and the pride which our players played the game. I hope, this season, with a better coach and a better team management at the sideline we'll have a great opportunity to do something special...

RTR
i agree with your post 100 percent. I think he brought the program up and back to respectability, but standards are higher at Bama
 

Swamptick

Verified Member
Scholarship Club
I have to agree with the OP on this one. I watched the Bama / MSU replay on the 4th and was again ashamed of our team. They just did not want to be out there. The program was not ANY better off when Shula left. In fact the Coach before him was MUCh better. Coach Fran at least had us winning. Shula had the sanctions yes...but did not improve the program in any lasting way.
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
Bamalee1 said:
i agree with your post 100 percent. I think he brought the program up and back to respectability, but standards are higher at Bama

Can you explain this in more detail? I just don't get it.

Is winning 52% of your games make you a respectable program? Is having players skip classes make you a respectable program?

How do you figure?

Did he give Saban something to build on? Yes, I'll agree with that. Did fRan give something for Shula to build on?

I have to pose the question again. Is the program better off after Shula left or after fRan left?
 

BamaPride

Verified Member
Century Club
TerryP said:
I can assure you. What you saw on the field wasn't what cost Shula his job. It was what was happening off of the field, and the results you saw on the field were simply a symptom of a far larger problem.

The notion a 10 win season means he was doing a good job is a notion that never fails to astound me. How on earth is that a sign of a good coaching job? Go back to the '20's and you'll find every coach, save one, have had seasons that we made that 10 win mark.

Consider, LSU has had 8 10 W seasons in their history. It's a starting point here, nothing more.

We gave him a pass on the first year. By the second year he was already losing control of the team. Much like DuBose had Alexander and Samuels lead the '99 team, Shula had players like DeMeco lead the '05 team.

Discipline? Didn't exist. Those "suspensions" you heard about were only a drop in the bucket compared to what should have been done.

Leadership from the staff? There are only two people I would put in that category, Woods and Kines. And, both of those weren't allowed to handle their respective players as they thought they should have been.

Did he get us through a tough period? Yes. Could we have hired a better coach from day one. MOST DEFINITELY.

From day one conversations I had revolved around, "at worse case scenario he'll get us through the probation period."

The question that needs to be asked if the program was in better shape after Shula was released or before he was hired. It was the later.

Right on.
 

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Sideline Club
TerryP said:
Bamalee1 said:
i agree with your post 100 percent. I think he brought the program up and back to respectability, but standards are higher at Bama

Can you explain this in more detail? I just don't get it.

Is winning 52% of your games make you a respectable program? Is having players skip classes make you a respectable program?

How do you figure?

Did he give Saban something to build on? Yes, I'll agree with that. Did fRan give something for Shula to build on?

I have to pose the question again. Is the program better off after Shula left or after fRan left?
The winning 52% does not make you a respectable program, Neither is a little over 60% if you give his first yr a free pass. I wasnt aware of the player skipping class bit, but it seemed like the program was ran better( Im talking keeping the team out of the news-Bad news-) before Fran left, but the bad taste that Dubose and price left could do that for anyone. So again i will take my liberal view, (even thru a a republican) and agree with you.

But even thru we had more winning success with Fran, the way he left, and the Price deal, put the program in scambles, so i will say we are better off after Shula left than Fran.
That being said its still way below par for this program.
I think Shula did right the ship, but he left to much dang water in it, and it apparently didnt have a drain.

As for Fran i was actually never to thrilled with him from jump street. I thought Dubose left to much talent on the team for Franny not to have done better his first yr than 7-5.
I dont believe Saban does however.
 

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Sideline Club
TerryP said:
Bamalee1 said:
i agree with your post 100 percent. I think he brought the program up and back to respectability, but standards are higher at Bama

Can you explain this in more detail? I just don't get it.

Is winning 52% of your games make you a respectable program? Is having players skip classes make you a respectable program?

How do you figure?

Did he give Saban something to build on? Yes, I'll agree with that. Did fRan give something for Shula to build on?

I have to pose the question again. Is the program better off after Shula left or after fRan left?
The winning 52% does not make you a respectable program, Neither is a little over 60% if you give his first yr a free pass. I wasnt aware of the player skipping class bit, but it seemed like the program was ran better( Im talking keeping the team out of the news-Bad news-) before Fran left, but the bad taste that Dubose and price left could do that for anyone. So again i will take my liberal view, (even thru a a republican) and agree with you.

But even thru we had more winning success with Fran, the way he left, and the Price deal, put the program in scambles, so i will say we are better off after Shula left than Fran.
That being said its still way below par for this program.
I think Shula did right the ship, but he left to much dang water in it, and it apparently didnt have a drain.

As for Fran i was actually never to thrilled with him from jump street. I thought Dubose left to much talent on the team for Franny not to have done better his first yr than 7-5.
I dont believe Saban does however.
 
G

Guest

I credit Shula with one thing. After the scandal of the DuBose years, the anger at Franchione's sudden departure and the embarassment of Price he stepped in and gave us some stability under difficult circumstances. He had to go because he lacked the fire and drive to make the tough decisions, but he neither left the program bereft of talent nor did he embarass our school. You might call him a caretaker coach. The change had to be made to restore Bama to being Bama.
 
C

CrimsonPirate

psychojoe said:
I credit Shula with one thing. After the scandal of the DuBose years, the anger at Franchione's sudden departure and the embarassment of Price he stepped in and gave us some stability under difficult circumstances. He had to go because he lacked the fire and drive to make the tough decisions, but he neither left the program bereft of talent nor did he embarass our school. You might call him a caretaker coach. The change had to be made to restore Bama to being Bama.
Nailed it, PJ. I was, admittedly, a big Shula fan and was not thrilled by his firing. I felt, at the time, that he deserved one more year. However, considering other things that have come to light regarding off-the-field issues, I have come to agree that it was time. And, when we got Saban, I thought it was fantastic. I'm looking forward to a return to the greatness to which Alabama is accustomed.

I won't remove my Mike Shula-autographed Bama Yearbook from my wall, though.:D
 

TerryP

Misomaniac
Ivory Club
Bamalee1 said:
The winning 52% does not make you a respectable program, Neither is a little over 60% if you give his first yr a free pass. I wasnt aware of the player skipping class bit, but it seemed like the program was ran better( Im talking keeping the team out of the news-Bad news-) before Fran left, but the bad taste that Dubose and price left could do that for anyone. So again i will take my liberal view, (even thru a a republican) and agree with you.

The first public example, but it wasn't made public, was Simeon being suspended for the Cotton Bowl. There, Shula had a great opportunity to make an example, but chose not to.

I have my suspicions as to why and I'm pretty confident I'm right on this one. FWIW, Jeremiah was basically given unfettered access to the team meetings, specifically the DB meetings. It was yet another example of Shula playing favorites among the players leading to the lack of leadership and the lack of respect from the players.

Another example is from this spring. Do you honestly think, especially after CNS has made such a public statement about academics, that Johns would have been as slack as he has been on the academic front if he hadn't been able to get away with it in the past?

But even thru we had more winning success with Fran, the way he left, and the Price deal, put the program in scambles, so i will say we are better off after Shula left than Fran.
That being said its still way below par for this program.
I think Shula did right the ship, but he left to much dang water in it, and it apparently didnt have a drain.

That's a GREAT turn of a phrase!!! Well done!!

Unlike you, I don't think Price left the program in shambles. A few weeks on the job really doesn't afford that opportunity.

As for Fran i was actually never to thrilled with him from jump street. I thought Dubose left to much talent on the team for Franny not to have done better his first yr than 7-5.
I dont believe Saban does however.

From 3 wins to 7 wins is an improvement, wouldn't you agree?

After watching the lax attitude with the weight room, conditioning and team discipline under DuBose fRan had a lot of mental rebuilding to handle. Much like the situation Saban finds himself in.

Quite frankly, I couldn't say which of the two (DuBose vs Shula) did a better/worse job. Some say DuBose was better, but that credit goes to Alexander, Samuels, et. al.

'05 under Shula isn't much different with a lot of that credit falling into the lap of DeMeco, etc.
 

Bamalee1

Thread Starter
Verified Member
Sideline Club
TerryP said:
Bamalee1 said:
The winning 52% does not make you a respectable program, Neither is a little over 60% if you give his first yr a free pass. I wasnt aware of the player skipping class bit, but it seemed like the program was ran better( Im talking keeping the team out of the news-Bad news-) before Fran left, but the bad taste that Dubose and price left could do that for anyone. So again i will take my liberal view, (even thru a a republican) and agree with you.

The first public example, but it wasn't made public, was Simeon being suspended for the Cotton Bowl. There, Shula had a great opportunity to make an example, but chose not to.

I have my suspicions as to why and I'm pretty confident I'm right on this one. FWIW, Jeremiah was basically given unfettered access to the team meetings, specifically the DB meetings. It was yet another example of Shula playing favorites among the players leading to the lack of leadership and the lack of respect from the players.

Another example is from this spring. Do you honestly think, especially after CNS has made such a public statement about academics, that Johns would have been as slack as he has been on the academic front if he hadn't been able to get away with it in the past?

But even thru we had more winning success with Fran, the way he left, and the Price deal, put the program in scambles, so i will say we are better off after Shula left than Fran.
That being said its still way below par for this program.
I think Shula did right the ship, but he left to much dang water in it, and it apparently didnt have a drain.

That's a GREAT turn of a phrase!!! Well done!!

Unlike you, I don't think Price left the program in shambles. A few weeks on the job really doesn't afford that opportunity.

As for Fran i was actually never to thrilled with him from jump street. I thought Dubose left to much talent on the team for Franny not to have done better his first yr than 7-5.
I dont believe Saban does however.

From 3 wins to 7 wins is an improvement, wouldn't you agree?

After watching the lax attitude with the weight room, conditioning and team discipline under DuBose fRan had a lot of mental rebuilding to handle. Much like the situation Saban finds himself in.

Quite frankly, I couldn't say which of the two (DuBose vs Shula) did a better/worse job. Some say DuBose was better, but that credit goes to Alexander, Samuels, et. al.

'05 under Shula isn't much different with a lot of that credit falling into the lap of DeMeco, etc.

TerryP i agree pretty much with your over all assessment, ,i believe the Price dismissal ,was a continuation of the Fran Fiasco that really set us back.
I also thought we had better talent the last yr of Dubose(maybe its just my opinion) ,even thru that was 3 win fiasco , that Fran should have won more than 7. I thought ,the turmoil of Dubose last team was a disaster. But i thought we had the players that should have won at least 9 and i thought the same the next yr with Fran.

I guess my final accessment is this. Fran righted the ship ,but when he left, and along with the Price mess,we were sinking faster than the Titanic, Shula again righted the ship , but left plenty of water in it,as proof of some of the accessments YOU made.
I liked the comments pychojoe made above.His thoughts hit the nail pretty well on the head for me.
 
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