| OT A Guns Thread

[Kamikazi18627]

While on some levels I completely understand the lack of trust placed in media and the government (they've done little to earn it)... I can't help but feel deflated when I see these conspiracy theories immediately spouting up... and I've seen them from both sides over the last 24+ hours. Critical thinking and logic seems to be evaporating from our society. Yesterday was a bad day, and was an inch or so away from being disastrous. It should have never happened. The focus, IMO, should be on the missteps that allowed it to happen and making sure something similar never happens again.

Yep. Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Rolltide24]

Good book for you readers to check out, In the President’s Secret Service.

I’ve heard a number of folks mention the ear shot and this being staged/planned, and even saying anyone could make that shot at 140 yards. Nobody asked, but I thought I’d type my thoughts…

The perp was a 20 year old math/computer nerd. He gave no resemblance of a hunter or outdoorsman in the photos I’ve seen. Obviously wasn’t military. The rifle was his dad’s, and a recent purchase by his dad. He missed a (slightly) moving target at 140 yards. We don’t know what optics he had on the rifle. If the guy was a gun guy, a hunter, regularly or even occasionally visited the range with this rifle, then I think he’d have a decent to good chance of making that shot. If he was not a hunter, no military experience, not familiar with the gun, and not sent a number of rounds through it, a couple of inches to the left of bullseye at 140 yards while laying on your stomach on a hot roof is not bad, on a somewhat moving target. Why he went for the head shot? I guess for show or to make a splash, I don’t know. Maybe he didn’t know any better, only watched movies, played video games, who knows. If it turns out he was a gun guy, avid hunter, and member at the local range, then disregard my thoughts and theories. But I believe it was a legitimate attempt at a head shot that was slightly off target.

 

[ElephantStomp]

Guess so. That's unacceptable. Regardless of which side of the aisle you vote for.

Unacceptable.

I completely agree. My political leaning is pretty known and I’m not a supporter of Trump, but this was 100% unacceptable. I’ve watched several videos for several hours from the shooting, have worked with the SS a few times with visiting dignitaries and I’m at a loss of words how the hell the shooter was able to have a direct line of sight to Trump

 

[ElephantStomp]

So we have conspiracy theorists on both sides...assassination attempt by a 20 y/o idiot was intended to just wing him, while MAGA believe the other side.

SS guy was probably on the horn asking for verification that there was no other agency personnel on that building. Kid is in gear that could've caused some hesitation. Then, he gets away from his scope at precisely the wrong time. Trump crooked his head around and just the right time.

I've heard as short as 130 yards, as far as 150. No fall @TerryP , it was just the side to side when Trump swung around. After that, the kid was probably panicked and not getting close.

I think people below him yelling “he’s got a gun” freaked him out and he rushed it, but 130-170 yards in perfect conditions with any AR platform and whoever or whatever I’m aiming at his going to have it’s body temp cooled.

 

[ElephantStomp]

And this is where @ElephantStomp nailed it: complacency.

Forgive the analogy, but it's like golf. I've "lost" my wedge game at times. But, with practice, it comes back to muscle memory.

Hey. Maybe I'm overthinking this. But this does seem like something you would practice, EVERY DAY!

Holstering and unholstering is something I practice every damn day. As you said muscle memory. I’m not dying or having somebody else die because I’m fucking around with my holster.

 

[Justneedme81]

Dang, nobody answered my question on the gun

 

[ElephantStomp]

Complacent, it is why they make good bucks not to be. I think it runs deeper than that. Most all Dems and Rhinos, most heads of the alphabet
agencies and their lemmings have been out to get Trump in one way or another ever since he announced his candidacy in 2015. Also, even
AG Garland gave FBI agents guidance to shoot to kill if need be when they raided Maralago. Were FBI agents going to shoot it out with Trump's SS security? Luckily, Trump was not there at the time of that raid. Everyone in government who has broken their oath to this country or who have broken laws or who have committed treason, want nothing more than to attend his funeral. It's either Trump or them, and they have known Trump is after them ever since his first "Drain the Swamp' comment. These are facts, not theory.

This is some serious accusations and serious conspiracy shit. So, my side of the aisle wanted Trump dead, so they employed a 20 year old with no combat or law enforcement experience to take him out? Give me a break.

Garland didn’t give the FBI guidance to shoot, federal law gives any and all law enforcement guidance to use deadly force when appropriate. Surely you can see how silly this all sounds man. The FBI, SS, DHS, ATF, USMS, etc they all work together homie, the SS isn’t going to stand there and shoot it out with the FBI, the SS protection detail isn’t some mafioso group that protect the Boss at all costs, the FBI wasn’t going to shoot it out with Trump had he been there

 

[ElephantStomp]

Dang, nobody answered my question on the gun

What was the question? I didn’t see it

 

[ElephantStomp]

I can't say I agree with this. There's been plenty of "incendiary" messages spoken.

By both sides

 

[TerryP]

Holstering and unholstering is something I practice every damn day. As you said muscle memory. I’m not dying or having somebody else die because I’m fucking around with my holster.

Out of curiosity, I'm more interested in the background of that agent than I am the Director.

People pointing to DEI have a point to stand upon. The director said she wanted more women in the Secret Service. I don't have any issues with that.

BUT, there are some jobs that require a man. While this may be sexist, guarding someone's life is a line of demarcation.

 

[TerryP]

By both sides

No doubt.

It defies logic to call a guy Hitler for eight years and then say, "we need to tone down the rhetoric, we don't need violence."

 

[ElephantStomp]

Out of curiosity, I'm more interested in the background of that agent than I am the Director.

People pointing to DEI have a point to stand upon. The director said she wanted more women in the Secret Service. I don't have any issues with that.

BUT, there are some jobs that require a man. While this may be sexist, guarding someone's life is a line of demarcation.

No, people pointing to DEI don’t have anything to stand on. You have to have several years experience to be placed on the presidential detail, so that agent knew what she was doing. The Director has only been there since 2022, so the agent we’re speaking about was there before the director got the job.

I disagree with you completely that to guard somebody’s life it must be a man. I know plenty of females that would do a damn fine job in that position

 

[ElephantStomp]

No doubt.

It defies logic to call a guy Hitler for eight years and then say, "we need to tone down the rhetoric, we don't need violence."

Agreed. It also defies logic to call people predators and such because they’re on one side of the aisle and to say there’s a civil war coming and lefties are going to get wiped out and then say “tone down the rhetoric, we don’t need violence”

 

[TerryP]

No, people pointing to DEI don’t have anything to stand on. You have to have several years experience to be placed on the presidential detail, so that agent knew what she was doing. The Director has only been there since 2022, so the agent we’re speaking about was there before the director got the job.

I disagree with you completely that to guard somebody’s life it must be a man. I know plenty of females that would do a damn fine job in that position

I've watched the video several times. I don't see agents that knew what they were doing. I see panic. And, I get that under these circumstances.

I tend to look at this under a "nature versus nurture" lens. Call it "toxic masculinity" if you would like. It's nice to have that "nurture" look around details that are being protected. I'd rather see nature.

Cheatle said her prioritites included hiring more women in the Secret Service. Like I said, I've got no issue with that goal.

I do have an issue when I see who is on the detail. The one lady I have pointed to? Out of shape, can't handle her gun, and she's on a detail. There is no denial of that fact.

 

[24and7]

Dang, nobody answered my question on the gun

Is that bolt action a shotgun or a 22 cal.. that single barrel is a tough one… even department stores, like Sears made single barrel shotguns back in the day..
The bolt action looks like a glenfield or a Remington 22

 

[TerryP]

Agreed. It also defies logic to call people predators and such because they’re on one side of the aisle and to say there’s a civil war coming and lefties are going to get wiped out and then say “tone down the rhetoric, we don’t need violence”

Only speculating here...just 'thinkin'...

IF he would have been killed, I believe there's a good chance we'd see a "civil war," of sorts. I don't know how the country would react other than half of the nation being really pissed off.

 

[ElephantStomp]

I've watched the video several times. I don't see agents that knew what they were doing. I see panic. And, I get that under these circumstances.

I tend to look at this under a "nature versus nurture" lens. Call it "toxic masculinity" if you would like. It's nice to have that "nurture" look around details that are being protected. I'd rather see nature.

Cheatle said her prioritites included hiring more women in the Secret Service. Like I said, I've got no issue with that goal.

I do have an issue when I see who is on the detail. The one lady I have pointed to? Out of shape, can't handle her gun, and she's on a detail. There is no denial of that fact.

The agent in question was hired and put on the detail before Cheatle was director.

Men aren’t better at protecting than women in this position. Different positions I know, but there are three ladies at the agency I’m with that are far far better cops than any dudes I’ve ever worked with, one of which is one of our SWAT snipers, she’s all of 5’7.

When I was a cop at my last agency during my OIS there were two other dudes and one female with me, during the resulting investigation with ballistics and body cams, three people fired, the perp, that female cop, and me….the two dudes (the protectors) hid behind a squad car and a dumpster and never engaged, so my view is different.

 

[ElephantStomp]

Only speculating here...just 'thinkin'...

IF he would have been killed, I believe there's a good chance we'd see a "civil war," of sorts. I don't know how the country would react other than half of the nation being really pissed off.

They would’ve been pissed off because at least half of that half of the country views the dude as a second coming of Jesus. But, that goes back to ignorant rhetoric, because instead of using intelligence they would’ve viewed as some on this board do and that is that my side of the aisle put a hit out or some stupid shit

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

They would’ve been pissed off because at least half of that half of the country views the dude as a second coming of Jesus. But, that goes back to ignorant rhetoric, because instead of using intelligence they would’ve viewed as some on this board do and that is that my side of the aisle put a hit out or some stupid shit

For the most part, the conservative right, view Trump as the best candidate in decades simply because he isn't paid or bought AND he isn't a part of the machine of DC. I'm sure you disagree with those notions but that's the basis for his majority following. There are some lunatic fringe that view him like Christ but both sides have their lunatic fringe. It looks like the shooter was one of the left's lunatic fringe.

As far as their being some "consipiracy". . . . . You have stated, w/ us agreeing, that there are some real holes in this thing. And had Trump not turned his head, the frenzy would be on a whole other level. To that end, there has been a bureacracy in DC that goes back to JFK's assasination that shows clear meddling in our political process. The CIA files regarding JFK's assasination is at the DC library made public for all to see. This was mandated by congress BTW. HBO Max made a documentary recently about how clear the CIA was involved in JFKs assasination. I highly recommend it! Since then, the DC government state has been meddling in politics. This bureaucracy that runs our government doesn't give a damn about Republican or Democrat. They can run BOTH parties with ease. However, they have thrown every possible option to get rid of Trump. This isn't a Republican/Democrat, liberal/conservative issue. Hell, we tend to agree far more than we disagree on things. But those inside the DC bureaucracy do not want change. PERIOD. They don't want us pulling back the covers.

I'm a cynic by nature. I need solid evidence to be 100% persuaded. But that goes both ways. Right now, the evidence, so far, shows that either there was such a stupid blunder by an alledged superior protection agency OR the shooter was given privy to information & time to conduct the assassination attempt. And frankly, I don't know which scenario is worse reflection of OUR government.

 

[24and7]

Dang, nobody answered my question on the gun

That single barrel may be a Diamond Arms or a Hopkins-Allen black powder shell shotgun..