| CURRENT EVENTS Wall to Wall: Russia, Russia, Russia. This Ukraine mess, what's your feelings on the matter?

The issue, as I see this, is whether the United States shouldn't be involved in this. Spending billions on a country that can be argued as one of the most corrupt in history is a small part of the story. Why are we in a proxy war with Russia?

In the last Senate vote, as I recall, about 10% voted against the next aid package for Ukraine. They were Republicans. However, you can't lay this on "party lines." You'll find a few, no matter the majority, oppose foreign aid such as this. You'll find the majority, no matter the majority, support these measures.

@It Takes Eleven Tim, want you're opinion here.

Stomp, this is the forewarned "Military Industrial Complex" at work just as Eisenhower forecasted. It's not a good thing.

In my view, what you might think is idealistically true–Russia shouldn't be allowed to invade—isn't taking into account what the people in those areas feel. While it's being portrayed as an invasion a lot in that area want to be under Russia control.

But.

What business is it of ours?

Really long day, sorry for the delay. I understand the foreign policy position for Ukrainian neutrality - not seeking to be part of any western apparatus so as not to antagonize Russia - but is that really independence? Seeking EU or NATO membership should rest with the nation, not a predetermined middle ground.

Most corrupt country in history? No, not even close. I don't have time to go through the history of rulers who have lined their pockets from the public treasury, or lined up cronies to benefit. I will say you can't drop billions into a country (whether it's Afghanistan, Ukraine or the United States) and not have a significant fraud component. Just look at the COVID relief spending, such as the PPP lending program, and see the number of fraud cases in our nation.

Most corrupt today? Not even close. An entire swath of African countries are far more corrupt. Central American countries, led by Mexico are almost universally more corrupt, with Costa Rica standing apart. A handful of South American countries have languished despite incredible natural resources, are more or similarly corrupt as Ukraine. The old joke about Argentina always being the nation with the most potential, but they can't get out of their own way. All of these push Ukraine - today - to the middle of the pack. The "stans", through much of the Indian subcontinent and down through southeast Asia (Myanmar gets an honorable mention) - many more corrupt.

I haven't even mentioned the truly corrupt nations like North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Iraq.

China? We were fools to invest in that nation, and allow Chinese companies to list on U.S. exchanges. They are hiding their true financial condition, and their human rights abuses are incredible. As U.S. manufacturing trends out of China, inflation is going to be a bear as the free lunch runs out.

Is Ukraine even the most corrupt former soviet bloc country? No, look to Belarus and others.
 
Here is Gideon Rose former editor of Foreign Affairs (Council on Foreign Relations) appearing on the old Colbert Report from 2014 trying to sell and popularize US/NATO Ukraine policy. Rogan and Smith play the actual clip in real time.

If short on time, move ahead to about the 4 min mark. This whole 14 min clip is a great commentary on US foreign policy, if you have the time.



Here is prescient analysis from Professor Mearsheimer back in 2015.



I wouldn't say Mearsheimer was prescient. He's speaking after Ukraine was invaded and Russia had annexed the Crimean Peninsula.
 

The Russian primate also reminded Fr. John that the conflict in Ukraine didn’t begin in February, but in fact, in 2014: “Eight years ago, the bombing of Donbass from Ukraine began. This is the reality: destroyed houses, a large number of victims. More than 2 million refugees from this region have found refuge in Russia.”

One of the most corrupt regimes to occupy DC was a driving source of the conflict.
 
Lead Swedish Prosecutor Mats Ljungqvist publically stated:
“Preliminary investigation concerns suspected gross sabotage against the gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea...
I have decided, together with the security police, to carry out a number of supplementary investigations at the crime scene...
Following the request, the armed forces have decided to assist the preliminary investigation”—after which the MoD released the beyond shocking statement: “Units of the British Navy were involved in a "terrorist attack", which destroyed the key Nord Stream gas pipelines...
Royal Navy operatives took part in planning, supporting and implementing”the plot to blow up the infrastructure in September”
 
Lead Swedish Prosecutor Mats Ljungqvist publically stated:
“Preliminary investigation concerns suspected gross sabotage against the gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea...
I have decided, together with the security police, to carry out a number of supplementary investigations at the crime scene...
Following the request, the armed forces have decided to assist the preliminary investigation” [END SWEDISH QUOTE]

—after which the MoD released the beyond shocking statement: “Units of the British Navy were involved in a "terrorist attack", which destroyed the key Nord Stream gas pipelines...
Royal Navy operatives took part in planning, supporting and implementing”the plot to blow up the infrastructure in September”
...that would be the Russian Ministry of Defense who made the allegation, not the Swedes.
 
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Let's put them all here and see which story prevails.


British navy involved in Nord Stream 2 'terrorist attack' – Russia​

UK forces participated in an operation which damaged Europe's energy security, Moscow claims


So quick to blame...Sweden quote was the preamble to that "blockbuster".
 
I bet if I put the info from Kim Dotcom you would be apoplectic. That is the guy that the gov sued his ASSETS in order to confiscate them. You are awesome man….stay that way.
Time will tell...it always does.

The simple piece here is that Russia will blame the west and the other way…I really enjoy the simple, reliable things of this world. I flip this, and there’s a new day. It’s been reliable for more than a few years. It needs a shake now and then to keep an accurate perspective, just like we do here. In the end, though, we’re just marking days. Do with yours as you will.


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"Wall to Wall: Russia, Russia, Russia. This Ukraine mess, what's your feelings on the matter?"​

Ukraine and Russia have linked histories that go back centuries. Russia will not allow an area that was part of their country for centuries be occupied by a hostile enemy force.

Anyone who buys into the whole "Russia bad! Putin is Hitler 2.0" are retards. When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, assurances were made to Russia that NATO would not expand into former territories and satellite states of the Soviet Union. Considering Poland and every Baltic country joined NATO after 1991 tells me that the US Government knowingly lied to Russia.

Putin has warned the West for years about NATO encroaching into Ukraine, and he is simply acting on that promise. The Russians view this conflict as an existential threat to their sovereignty (which it is). Under no circumstances will the Russian government allow a country that makes up the bulk of their western border be occupied by an enemy force. Their reaction is akin to how the US would respond if China tried building military bases in Mexico.

Again I can't stress this enough: The Russian government views this conflict as an existential threat. Ukraine is a flat country that can easily be occupied with ground troops and military equipment. Its like a giant entrance that leads directly to Moscow, and if Ukraine is in NATO, the Russians know they'll have a loaded gun pointed right at them 24/7.

My biggest concern is not about Russia, its about our totally retarded, dangerous, and delusional leadership class in the United States. Our ruling regime does not understand that Putin's Russia is not Saddam's Iraq. The sensible thing to do right now would be to de-escalate the conflict, but our retarded monkey leadership class seems to be doubling down and escalating as they throw their own shit all over the walls. Why? Part of me thinks that some in our leadership class have some type of historical blood lust against Russia for perceived negative treatments in prior centuries. At the end of the day however, it could be numerous reasons. All I know is that Western leaders are behaving like petulant 5 year olds who break all the toys if they can't have them all to themselves.
 
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