🏈 There's one "reason" for these satellite camps that's been given that really ticks me off.

[TerryP]

This isn't about the basket case up north (or is he overseas today?) It's not how some are passing it off as something other than recruiting.

What really gets on my nerves is this narrative "these camps create opportunities." It sounds good to those who know little about the game or those who've chosen not to really think about the whole thing.

Simply put, these people are forgetting that this is a zero sum game. For every scholarship given, someone is missing out on one. No one I've seen point to the FACT that the number of scholarships is the same today, as it was yesterday, last year ... and will be the same tomorrow.

 

[Tidestalker]

This isn't about the basket case up north (or is he overseas today?) It's not how some are passing it off as something other than recruiting.

What really gets on my nerves is this narrative "these camps create opportunities." It sounds good to those who know little about the game or those who've chosen not to really think about the whole thing.

Simply put, these people are forgetting that this is a zero sum game. For every scholarship given, someone is missing out on one. No one I've seen point to the FACT that the number of scholarships is the same today, as it was yesterday, last year ... and will be the same tomorrow.

Create *better* opportunities for some prospects.

Some may miss out, but some are missing out regardless.

I don't see the issue with any of this stuff... As far as I'm concerned, everyone is looking for an edge in one way or another. Teams & coaches will either catch up with the trends or get left behind... unless the NCAA wants to pretend like they're interested in the greater good of the players and universities by imposing more bogus regulations forced by political correctness.

Would Amari Cooper have missed out if he didn't attend the camp Alabama hosted with Chris Carter?

or do we feel sorry for the guy who's offer he took?

I don't.

 

[TerryP]

Create *better* opportunities for some prospects.

And how many are describing it that way?

I don't see the issue with any of this stuff...

There isn't an issue with this as long as it remains as pure in reality as it's described in its intent.

People have often painted with too large of a brush stroke when discussing the AAU. But, those that say there haven't been issues that have impacted sports like basketball? Softball? They're living with their heads buried, deeply, in sand.

 

[TerryP]

@Tidestalker

Here's a question that deserves thought, in my opinion.

Let's use Harbaugh as example. All these camps around the states ... isn't that removing a "better opportunity" for all those kids in Michigan?

 

[UAgrad93]

Saban said it best when he said, "HS football coaches still have some impact in the recruiting process." In all other sports, the college coach bypasses the HS coach and goes to their AAU coach, trainer, handler, etc.
If these satellite camps are going to stay, then their needs to be some serious compliance people in place or recruiting violations are going to become the norm and be even more blatant than what Ole Pi$$ even does now!!

 

[Tidestalker]

@Tidestalker

Here's a question that deserves thought, in my opinion.

Let's use Harbaugh as example. All these camps around the states ... isn't that removing a "better opportunity" for all those kids in Michigan?

Possibly?

If Michigan had the 20 of the top 150 players in the 2017 class, then not a single one is going to miss out on the opportunity at Michigan.

I think the point is to find the best 85 guys possible.

Look at recruiting for what it is - A chance for each kid to give himself the best opportunity to be successful in the short and long term future.

No different than a job search.

Companies are going to find the best employees possible, regardless of location. Some have the type of pull to take their employees from anywhere in the country, others have to take what they can get. That's just how the competitive world works.

I'm almost always going to side with the idea of competition. If the better players are taking opportunities from the lesser players, than so be it. That's how the real world works in almost every capacity.

 

[PCRammer]

Right, but the fact still remains...for each kid that got a better opportunity, there is another that got a worse opportunity (or even no opportunity), so to speak.

The camps don't bother me but I don't like this creating opportunity narrative.

 

[OldPlayer]

As I understand it, it's not about having a camp. It's about participating in a camp that is run by somebody other than the school. College coaches cannot use third parties in recruiting. Therefore if a camp is held by Joe Schmo, and he recruits the "best" players in the area and then invites a college coach to participate, it's a third party.

Am I missing something?

 

[Max]

@OldPlayer You've recapped what Saban said as close as one can in a few sentences.

While he didn't come out and say it, he was referring to allowing a situation to develop much like some of the AAU programs/camps found in collegiate athletes. But, that's not how it's being discussed among the majority.

 

[uofarolltide]

What do yall mean by "the camps don't bother me."
Are you an Alabama fan? Are you aware that these camps bother Nick Saban?
These camps suck, and Harbaugh is a douche

 

[Max]

Are you aware that these camps bother Nick Saban?

The unintended consequences he's cautioned against many times. Bothering Saban? Nah. Guaran-damn-tee you he looks at it as recruiting, and all this other stuff as clutter.

 

[musso]

@Tidestalker

Here's a question that deserves thought, in my opinion.

Let's use Harbaugh as example. All these camps around the states ... isn't that removing a "better opportunity" for all those kids in Michigan?

You're getting the cart before the horse. The opportunity is, first and foremost, the school's to give and then secondly the recruit's to either accept or decline.

I'm feeling Tidestalker's sentiments here ... this is about innovation and competition with recruiting. This is about the decline of the Rust Belt and of its proud and traditional college football powers. This is about the ascendancy and gravitational pull of southern football, which has been evident for decades now. Let's not reflexively defend or demonize any coach. It's a chess match between a "has been" region and the future of collegiate football. This is about the winningest college football program, Michigan, taking bold actions to stop the hemorrhaging and return to relevance.

Dominant actors never want reform, so Saban prefers the status quo. After all, he's mastered it. Does that necessarily mean he isn't willing to adapt? Of course not, but it will diminish his capital as with any "regime" change.

Will these camps provide a wider spectrum of opportunities to recruits? Of course, and to that end we should always favor more choice for the players. But as PCRammer hinted, the altruistic claim by Harbaugh and others that they only want to offer additional opportunities to kids is disingenuous. It's about competition and doing what's best for their program by disrupting the system. They want to invade and market their fading brands wherever the talent is located.

As with anything else, greater competition always improves conditions for employees (players) and customers (fans).

 

[PCRammer]

What do yall mean by "the camps don't bother me."
Are you an Alabama fan? Are you aware that these camps bother Nick Saban?
These camps suck, and Harbaugh is a douche

I have dual degrees from UA so yes I am very much a Bama fan. However, I am my own man and Im allowed to have differing opinions from a football coach. Im indifferent on the camp issue. I really don't care either way. I get his point about possibly working through 3rd party guys but until that happens no rules have been broken

 

[musso]

:agree::hurray:

 

[TerryP]

I found this link surfing around on BOL a few hours ago.

Now, given the "alleged" history of Cam Newton, and now knowing his involvement in AAU circles, is there a better example of the type of third party people that college football doesn't need involved in recruiting?

Gallery: Cam Newton coaches his 7-on-7 squad Auburn Carolina Panthers

________________

FWIW, I do believe this piece from AU's 247 site is to draw attention away from the turmoil of players leaving and the pressure those around AU know is on Gus.

 

[Max]

But as PCRammer hinted, the altruistic claim by Harbaugh and others that they only want to offer additional opportunities to kids is disingenuous.

Did you even read the entire thread? @TerryP posted was exactly what @PCRammer posted a little later.

You chose to jump in a little hypothetical question thrown at @ @Tidestalker

 

[musso]

Did you even read the entire thread? @TerryP posted was exactly what @PCRammer posted a little later.

You chose to jump in a little hypothetical question thrown at @ @Tidestalker

I did read the entire thread, but as with most thread participation during work hours, my attention is divided. So it's possible I missed something. My sense was that there was agreement between PCRammer and Tidestalker whereas Terry was taking a pessimistic view of these camps.

 

[planomateo]

Mississippi State & Simmons are under the microscope now. If he slips the fallout could be significant within the front office.

 

[musso]

I found this link surfing around on BOL a few hours ago.

Now, given the "alleged" history of Cam Newton, and now knowing his involvement in AAU circles, is there a better example of the type of third party people that college football doesn't need involved in recruiting?

Gallery: Cam Newton coaches his 7-on-7 squad Auburn Carolina Panthers

________________

FWIW, I do believe this piece from AU's 247 site is to draw attention away from the turmoil of players leaving and the pressure those around AU know is on Gus.

And this is where I think we get into trouble. Saban uses this verbiage too. Inanimate things like "college football" don't have needs, desires, or preferences. Only individuals do. We mustn't cloak our own private and selfish interests as what's best for "the game."

My response is if there is demand among recruits to attend these camps, then these camps are obviously in the interests of the recruits and of those programs ambitious and innovative enough to serve them. Who are we to prohibit the consent of others? To Saban's point, the NCAA needs to reform itself, but then again, if you ask me the NCAA needs to go entirely and the NFL needs to man up and purchase the rights to administer this "minor league" itself, without the continued charade of selling notions of academic integrity.

 

[footballer]

I believe Harbaugh is a whining, sniveling and lazy lightweight who is unwilling to put in the work necessary in normal recruiting to gain the edge that some other coaches such as Coach Saban, Coach Meyer, Coach Fischer and some others have attained. Many long hours of hard work in normal recruiting is what yields an advantage in talent on the field. Instead of hard work in normal recruiting, Harbaugh would rather spend his time getting lazier and fatter picking players out of a pool of recruits assembled by others at these camps.
TerryP pointed out the holes in the main arguments for camps in an earlier post. The argument for the camps is that it will give some kids a better chance at going to bigger ,better schools like Michigan. That is a smokescreen, bullshit probably fits better. There are a finite number of scholarships available for each school to award players. There will be the same number of kids who get scholarships and the same that don't no matter who gets them. I am not a gambler but in the world of gambling, is there more money lost or won? Simple, It's equal, what's lost is won by somebody and what's won is lost by somebody.