| FTBL Select the option that *best* expresses your assessment of DeBoer to this point.

[mando]

There are only 4 options.

Sorry meant changed to 3.

 

[mando]

This is just my take on this, nothing more... but I'd put very little stock into what DeBoer says to the media in these situations. He's going to defend his players publicly, but he's just not nearly as skilled as some other coaches (yes, like Saban) when he's doing it in those situations. He kinda falls back on coach speak. That's the way I took his comments the other day... and at several other times this season as well.

So if coach speak about Milroe then what was the real reason? Any theories because we can never truly know? Is he that committed/loyal to Milroe or Tyson really is not the answer based on what CKD is seeing in practice or given the OL play Milroe was the best option.

I agree CKD does a lot of coach and rah rah speak which drives me nuts.. Cannot be an enabler. One of my red flags based on observation...

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

So if coach speak about Milroe then what was the real reason? Any theories because we can never truly know? Is he that committed/loyal to Milroe or Tyson really is not the answer based on what CKD is seeing in practice or given the OL play Milroe was the best option.

I agree CKD does a lot of coach and rah rah speak which drives me nuts.. Cannot be an enabler. One of my red flags based on observation...

Part opinion and part chatter in this answer, but...

I think DeBoer went to great lengths to protect some of the guys in the program from extra criticism publicly. That doesn't mean hard conversations didn't happen privately. But guys like Milroe and even Moore, helped hold the team together last winter. They were captains already, under the previous staff and again this season. Both were handled with softer gloves publicly than maybe some other players would be, but again, that doesn't mean they didn't get coached up away from the press, they did. Milroe specifically, plays best when his confidence his high. Fans, and in some cases, the media were already hammering him (which is their right). DeBoer was a bit of a firewall to that when he needed it, he stuck up for his guy. IMO, it was the right thing to do but also, it was necessary for Milroe's confidence.

As far as Milroe vs. Simpson goes... I do wonder if they had it do over again, if they'd have put Ty in for a series or 2 at OU when Milroe was imploding. But, Ty isn't Tua. Bama wasn't in a situation where they knew they had an absolute stud on the bench. Simpson is going to have his issues as well, at least until he gets some significant game reps under his belt. It also goes back to Milroe's confidence some too, IMO. They were trying to get him reset at times. We saw it the other day against UM in the drive right before the half. Sometimes, I think they were looking more for a spark than they were to make a change (thet TD that was called back for the phantom illegal touching penalty against OU, could have been one of those sparks as well). Lastly, with the offense they were running this year (tailored to Milroe), the run game needed to be successful for it to work. And Milroe was the much better option for that (though it could have and should have been much better).

As for DeBoer and how he words things, he might be going about things extra carefully right now (he's under a media spotlight that is similar to major NFL markets) and he may get better in that area as he gets more comfortable. But, I think it's mostly just who he is. Kinda how Nate Oats next door, shoots from the hip without a filter. It's just who he is.

 

[mando]

As for DeBoer and how he words things, he might be going about things extra carefully right now (he's under a media spotlight that is similar to major NFL markets) and he may get better in that area as he gets more comfortable. But, I think it's mostly just who he is. Kinda how Nate Oats next door, shoots from the hip without a filter. It's just who he is.

All opinion on my part here - He does do a lot of coach speak. It makes him sound and look like an enabler of undisciplined behavior at times. It provides the appearance of not holding players accountable. This is the public side but could be different in the locker room. I will just say with the product that was put on the field there is evidence that the players were not being held accountable.

 

[musso]

I will just say with the product that was put on the field there is evidence that the players were not being held accountable.

I would agree we saw a lack of discipline. I’d say the most I recall in memory, in fact. But let’s be honest, it’s practically impossible to hold players accountable these days when many of them are making more than assistant coaches with no obligation to stay with their team. And for any newly hired coach, this has to be the worst environment in the history of the sport to try to implement and establish a new regime without losing players. My guess is, until the rules impose limits or restrictions on transferring, we are going to see less firing of head coaches and more so of assistants.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

All opinion on my part here - He does do a lot of coach speak. It makes him sound and look like an enabler of undisciplined behavior at times. It provides the appearance of not holding players accountable. This is the public side but could be different in the locker room. I will just say with the product that was put on the field there is evidence that the players were not being held accountable.

One thing that would have certainly helped, and it's been an issue for a bit now, pre-dating DeBoer's hire... would have been (and will be) if the players/leaders start doing a better job of holding their teammates accountable. We've seen an erosion of true leadership the last several years and that needs to be corrected, soon. Used to, the freshman would come in and see real quick that they best not get on the wrong side of the leaders by loafing, being late, doing stupid shit at inappropriate times, etc. But the older lions in this scenario haven't been doing that as much and I really can't get an answer or figure out as to why. But the result is, that older (more effective) Alpha-style leadership isn't passed down through true lived experiences as players come into the program. It happened around the same time NIL and the transfer carousel exploded, so maybe there is some connection there. Or, maybe not. But Bama needs some strong leaders again, some enforcers in the mold of a Jon Allen, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Reggie Ragland, Barrett Jones, etc... They also need fewer knuckleheads (a term I love) on the roster so that it isn't a constant issue either way. Good news is, the roster turnover the last month is a big step in the right direction there. They got rid of a few last year too.

 

[TerryP]

For me I might estimate > 50%. Sometimes I want to tell him, for the sake of collateral damage, don’t drink and type! When I log on here I don’t have time to decipher in-group colloquialisms. I just want clear, direct and thoughtful discussions and debates.

Coincidently, since Tim was in town (end of September) I may have had six beers. Maybe. I don't know the last time I touched the liquor cabinet to make a drink (for me.) So, that ain't it!

Here's a thought of mine. You are looking for clear, direct, and thoughtful answers? They are here. An occasional farcical response to a thread, or question, that has been answered more than a few times seems apropos.

(The "similar threads" Bot that's running all the time is meant to alleviate this while directing people to those answers. Like the "News Bot's," you never can tell what it's going to pull.)

 

[TerryP]

Lastly, with the offense they were running this year (tailored to Milroe), the run game needed to be successful for it to work. And Milroe was the much better option for that (though it could have and should have been much better).

Of the four losses:

Game	Yards rushing
Vandy	84
Tennessee	75
Oklahoma	70
Michigan	68

114 carries, 297 yards? Cursory math...about 2.5 yards per carry.

 

[TerryP]

Of the four losses:

Game	Yards rushing
Vandy	84
Tennessee	75
Oklahoma	70
Michigan	68

114 carries, 297 yards? Cursory math...about 2.5 yards per carry.

I'll add one thing to this.

I don't believe (for a second) it was Sheridan and his play calling that kept the team from breaking that 100 yard mark. Now, some of thein-game decisions I questioned. But, I have not looked for a root cause and came close to naming the OC or game plans.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

That's not quite fair; context needs included. I've made references to music, bands, movies, TV shows, TV characters...if you knew, say, the song, you got it. Hell, I remember being shocked one day when I made an Arrested Development remark and Tim, of all people, caught it.

I'm eccentric. 'tis what it is.

Aint no doubt bout it

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

CNS team in 2007 digressed also. Different circmstances but it happened.

Alabama played Colorado in their bowl game & won. It wasn't sloppy either. It truly was a building block to the 2008 season, which legendarily, set the tone for probably 10 years of success.

Will this years UM loss do anything for this team? I truly have no damn clue.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

One thing that would have certainly helped, and it's been an issue for a bit now, pre-dating DeBoer's hire... would have been (and will be) if the players/leaders start doing a better job of holding their teammates accountable. We've seen an erosion of true leadership the last several years and that needs to be corrected, soon. Used to, the freshman would come in and see real quick that they best not get on the wrong side of the leaders by loafing, being late, doing stupid shit at inappropriate times, etc. But the older lions in this scenario haven't been doing that as much and I really can't get an answer or figure out as to why. But the result is, that older (more effective) Alpha-style leadership isn't passed down through true lived experiences as players come into the program. It happened around the same time NIL and the transfer carousel exploded, so maybe there is some connection there. Or, maybe not. But Bama needs some strong leaders again, some enforcers in the mold of a Jon Allen, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Reggie Ragland, Barrett Jones, etc... They also need fewer knuckleheads (a term I love) on the roster so that it isn't a constant issue either way. Good news is, the roster turnover the last month is a big step in the right direction there. They got rid of a few last year too.

This is the issue. NO Question.

I remember us talking about this a few years ago & you used the phrase "we lost some true kings from the 2020 season", that left a huge void. I don't think that void has been filled since. Some in part to Byrce Young not being that confrontational type. He became the defacto leader of the team because of how much his talent covered up defeciencies. So that experience built a false framework of discipline & mental toughness. In short, these teams of the last 4 years thought they were all that but they weren't.

The easiest proof I have is the number of penalties this team amassed over the last 4 years reflects their average mental toughness.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

I went with #2, but I'd really fall somewhere in between 1 and 2. His job with this roster was more difficult than many will admit (or understand), but the manner in which Bama lost a couple of games was concerning, especially the OU debacle. I said the other day, it's unfair IMO to really start the clock on his tenure until the moment that clock his 0:00 in Tampa. He's got to make some adjustments now, already did one today with the staff. I'm plenty confident the guy understands what it takes to win, but there has been and will be a learning process for him in the SEC and at Alabama. He's got to learn quick and make the right adjustments. Next fall will answer some lingering questions.

I AM, however...

Scratching my head a little at his first assistant coaching fire being DBs and not OL

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

I don't think folks are factoring just how much the symbiotic relationship of NIL and the transfer portal has affected things this year.

It hasn't blown up like it did (at least for us) until this year.

What do you think all that turnover does to roster morale and cohesion?

I think KDB managed it about as well as he could.

Vandy loss was a tough loogie to swallow, but again... Goes back to cohesion.

You gotta remember: you can't coach up these kids very hard anymore like you could even 2-3 years ago. They'll just pack up and leave with zero penalty, and most times, more money at the new place.

Tough spot for any coach to be in, and the primary reason the GOAT hung up his whistle because of the way it was trending outside of his control. Remember his Rece Davis post-retirement interview where he mentioned Miss Terry asking him, after an odd conversation about money with a recruit's mom, "Is this what we want to do now? (ie, this isn't the college football we love anymore)"

You gotta use kid gloves to correct them while also still recruiting your current players to stay with you?

How effed up is that, REALLY?

To top it all off: CKD's quandary this year was like that of a dude marrying a woman with kids already.

You other step dads out there know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

And from a GameDay personnel perspective, you had injuries and role identification problems on the OL all season, which affected the QB. Sure, he took gnarly sacks instead of chucking the ball into the bleachers a few more times than desired. But too many times, he was swarmed before he could finish his drop, most of the time with extra pressures. That also falls on the OL for rush recognition. OT sees a Star cheated a step inside of a slot receiver, you should KNOW a CB blitz is coming. THAT is coaching, specifically the OL coach. OU ate us UP with the corner/Star blitz. That, PLUS it would be reaaaaallllly nice if we could find another film-nerd stud with a 4.5 GPA and a field general mentality at Center like this guy

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

This is just my take on this, nothing more... but I'd put very little stock into what DeBoer says to the media in these situations. He's going to defend his players publicly, but he's just not nearly as skilled as some other coaches (yes, like Saban) when he's doing it in those situations. He kinda falls back on coach speak. That's the way I took his comments the other day... and at several other times this season as well.

Saban was the Jedi MASTER of using pressers to drive home messages to the team.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

As far as Milroe vs. Simpson goes... I do wonder if they had it do over again, if they'd have put Ty in for a series or 2 at OU when Milroe was imploding. But, Ty isn't Tua. Bama wasn't in a situation where they knew they had an absolute stud on the bench. Simpson is going to have his issues as well

This right here.

The couple of plays where JM4 was banged up against OU, Simpson shat the bed.

Apologists will say "but limited reps with 1s!"... But, you've GOT to be ready when called upon. This is big boy ball, now. You're getting paid to play football.

I'd venture to say that Simpson ain't ready for QB1. Doesn't have that killer instinct, and isn't chomping at the bit to prove himself. This is why many talking heads are already saying Russell will be the starter next year as a true frosh.

If Ty would've truly been anxious to grind that axe when he came in, and lit shit up and moved the ball on a scoring drive when Jalen was having his injury looked at, I guarantee KDB would've stuck with Simpson then, at least for the rest of that game.

But he didn't. He shat all over that opportunity. That should've squashed all the "Put Simpson in" perpetual complaints for much of the season.

Which circles back to what someone asked in a gameday thread a few weeks ago: if Milroe is this bad and KDB won't switch, then how bad is Simpson?

 

[TerryP]

Will this years UM loss do anything for this team? I truly have no damn clue.

You can get a picture on the defense.

You can't get a true picture on the offense.

 

[TerryP]

I remember us talking about this a few years ago & you used the phrase "we lost some true kings from the 2020 season", that left a huge void. I don't think that void has been filled since.

I don't think folks are factoring just how much the symbiotic relationship of NIL and the transfer portal has affected things this year.

I still maintain, A LOT has to do with where these kids were in 2020; during COVID.

 

[BamaFan334]

One thing that would have certainly helped, and it's been an issue for a bit now, pre-dating DeBoer's hire... would have been (and will be) if the players/leaders start doing a better job of holding their teammates accountable. We've seen an erosion of true leadership the last several years and that needs to be corrected, soon. Used to, the freshman would come in and see real quick that they best not get on the wrong side of the leaders by loafing, being late, doing stupid shit at inappropriate times, etc. But the older lions in this scenario haven't been doing that as much and I really can't get an answer or figure out as to why. But the result is, that older (more effective) Alpha-style leadership isn't passed down through true lived experiences as players come into the program. It happened around the same time NIL and the transfer carousel exploded, so maybe there is some connection there. Or, maybe not. But Bama needs some strong leaders again, some enforcers in the mold of a Jon Allen, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Reggie Ragland, Barrett Jones, etc... They also need fewer knuckleheads (a term I love) on the roster so that it isn't a constant issue either way. Good news is, the roster turnover the last month is a big step in the right direction there. They got rid of a few last year too.

Gotta be NIL. Guys are chasing commercials, advertising dollars, and opportunities to line their pockets instead of creating chemistry and building those bonds that allow them to dictate to other players without someone getting mad and simply leaving. I've been saying it non-stop for a few years now, it has taken the focus off the team and now it's all Team Me.

Hate to bring Milroe into this conversation, but he's easily the most popular player we had on the roster the last couple of years. Are we honestly going to sit here and act like his popularity did not take his time and some of his focus away from Alabama football due to NIL in a way like Mark Ingram or Jonathan Allen didn't because it wasn't present then? When all you have to do is play football and go to school you aren't feeding the vultures. How can you truly lead when you are being pulled in another direction by agents, parents, and hell, even the University for NIL opportunities and collective fundraising. It's all too much for o e person to do and still be an effective leader. Had Reuben Foster, Ragland, Richardson, Minkah, and others had NIL, I k ow it would have gone this same exact way and we would nit have accomplished what we did as a program. You have to look at what has changed. We talk about things falling a part for Saban. Well what changed? NIL did, it's that simple of a science problem. As I have also stated, it is of no coincidence the strangle hold Saban had on his program in that regard with getting coaches and Freshmen speak to the media and the affect it had on the program. Now, sheesh, it's like them having two full time jobs with NIL and football, and school is like filling out paperwork at the doctor, simply a formality and small portion of what they must do. It's all backwards now and you can thank NIL for this mess. LANK was the focus of NIL for me, but getting offered a Lamborghini and $12M cash from the school is what happened. I'll argue this with anyone that cared to disagree

 

[BamaFan334]

This right here.

The couple of plays where JM4 was banged up against OU, Simpson shat the bed.

Apologists will say "but limited reps with 1s!"... But, you've GOT to be ready when called upon. This is big boy ball, now. You're getting paid to play football.

I'd venture to say that Simpson ain't ready for QB1. Doesn't have that killer instinct, and isn't chomping at the bit to prove himself. This is why many talking heads are already saying Russell will be the starter next year as a true frosh.

If Ty would've truly been anxious to grind that axe when he came in, and lit shit up and moved the ball on a scoring drive when Jalen was having his injury looked at, I guarantee KDB would've stuck with Simpson then, at least for the rest of that game.

But he didn't. He shat all over that opportunity. That should've squashed all the "Put Simpson in" perpetual complaints for much of the season.

Which circles back to what someone asked in a gameday thread a few weeks ago: if Milroe is this bad and KDB won't switch, then how bad is Simpson?

To be fair to Ty, Milroe had time last year, an off-season this past year, and countless opportunities this year and still "shit the bed" as you put it. So I don't think dropping a guy in the middle of a game where sucking ass at is the best identifier in whether or not he's suitable to be our starting quarterback.