🏀 Renovation or new arena?

[mando]

To me a new arena or maybe the better term an investment in the basketball program is more about keeping Oats around. Not demonstrating a commitment and appreciation for what he and his staff are doing would be a demotivator. I think what you are after here is for Oats or his agent to not take that phone call from another school when it comes and it will come. Now which of these options accommodates that? That is for the AD to figure out and ultimately earn his money.

 

[TerryP]

I think you’ll need to wait more than two weeks to see any impact from the Facebook -> Meta name change.

I'd think "BAD ANALOGY" would be sufficient enough for a caveat. "You people."

I don't need more than two weeks to know if a name change is going to change Facebook. Nothing has changed outside of the name.

It's no such a bad analogy after all ...

You’ll also probably need a bigger sample size than two teams in the SEC to be statistically valid.

I listed the last three as examples and wouldn't have made the point if it wasn't found in more than one instance.

A&M didn't see a blip on their "success meter" when they rebuilt. It wasn't until Bill Byrne (yes, of that family) fired their coach and brought in Gillispie that they turned the corner: six years after completion.

Arkansas built their new arena in the middle of Nolan's career. Their team fell back from their lofty position after its completion, literally. (Champ during completion year, runner-up, Sweet Sixteen, second round, first round, and then no appearance, and Nolan was gone.)

Tennessee's new home was in the late 80's. Do I credit Summit's success to the building?

The point remains the same. There are no data points to link "new building" equals "better basketball program."

There are data points that say what Alabama's basketball program has is among the best: most can't accept what they can't see with their own two eyes even with the head coach (plural in this case) saying otherwise.

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The biggest plus to a new facility is it will finally be the death of one of the biggest lies we've seen about Coleman and the improvements: "lipstick on a pig."

On the minus side that conversation? It has been a good indicator of how closely people have followed the program.

 

[Bammerboy321]

The last new build in the SEC was Ole Miss; their program has gone backwards since their new arena.
Auburn was before that and we can point to their NCAA quarterfinal run as a highlight but will end up pointing to the FBI as well.
Missouri built a new arena almost 20 years ago and they were doing better in their 'old house.'

The "new arena leads to better basketball" argument doesn't pass my logic test. It's GREAT for the fans; minimal impact on the program itself.

You are correct that it doesn't necessarily lead to better basketball. It's all relative to who you hire. Auburn immediately hired the worst coach in programs history and it set their program back three years into Pearl's tenure. But it did help them land Pearl. I wouldn't say it's a minimal impact though, considering if we or any program shows their commitment to the program by building a new arena, it can help on retaining a hot commodity like Oats or attracting another HC. It can also be a great asset for recruitment, along with great facilities (which we have).

As for Ole Miss, I thought highly of Kermit Davis after his first year and really worried about us falling behind them with Avery. Since then, they have definitely regressed. Kermit hasn't quite caught up to today's offenses.

 

[BamaFan334]

Probably need to give Oats another year to make sure we are in fact headed in a good direction before dropping, what, $100M into a new arena. I am not doubting him at all, I would just absolutely hate if things don't continue to rise that the cost gets passed down to boosters through donations, tickets, concessions, and such.

 

[Bammerboy321]

Probably need to give Oats another year to make sure we are in fact headed in a good direction before dropping, what, $100M into a new arena. I am not doubting him at all, I would just absolutely hate if things don't continue to rise that the cost gets passed down to boosters through donations, tickets, concessions, and such.

I don't agree with this at all, regardless if our direction is positive or not.

 

[TerryP]

I doubt the fbi zeroed in on AU..... because of anything except their HC....they added....( and add being AU doesnt help their case)

You doubt what?

They literally zeroed in on Chuck Person and Auburn reacted by imposing a post-season ban (among a few other self-imposed sanctions) on their basketball program. Person was at the core of the FBI's case in NY.

 

[BamaFan334]

I don't agree with this at all, regardless if our direction is positive or not.

I just don't see it as a great idea to pile on while everyone is excited. You can't get emotional about this stuff and think with your heart. It's investing millions and millions of dollars that ultimately funnels to your fan base. You just have to hope it's the right move for the program AND for everyone involved. I personally don't give a shit about a shiny new stadium. The Georgia Dome was fine with me, but the City of Atlanta wanted that shiny new open roof dome that is now hitting the tax payers. Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Michigan State, and others are doing just fine in their same ole gyms. I'm down for upgrades for sure, but just trying to throw the kitchen sink at a new venue needs time.

And all of this right after the face lift at Bryant-Denny and the loss of jobs within the athletic program due to the virus. People were kicked out of their seats people have had for 30 years, or forced to pay over double. I just hate that look and don't want to see it anywhere else in Alabama athletics.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

You doubt what?

They literally zeroed in on Chuck Person and Auburn reacted by imposing a post-season ban (among a few other self-imposed sanctions) on their basketball program. Person was at the core of the FBI's case in NY.

Kinda what i was saying. Tongue n cheek

 

[Bammerboy321]

I just don't see it as a great idea to pile on while everyone is excited. You can't get emotional about this stuff and think with your heart. It's investing millions and millions of dollars that ultimately funnels to your fan base. You just have to hope it's the right move for the program AND for everyone involved. I personally don't give a shit about a shiny new stadium. The Georgia Dome was fine with me, but the City of Atlanta wanted that shiny new open roof dome that is now hitting the tax payers. Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, Michigan State, and others are doing just fine in their same ole gyms. I'm down for upgrades for sure, but just trying to throw the kitchen sink at a new venue needs time.

And all of this right after the face lift at Bryant-Denny and the loss of jobs within the athletic program due to the virus. People were kicked out of their seats people have had for 30 years, or forced to pay over double. I just hate that look and don't want to see it anywhere else in Alabama athletics.

That's fine and all, but you do what's in the best interest for your program. The talks of this all happening now have likely little to with the positive momentum under Oats and more to do with how outdated Coleman is.

 

[BamaFan334]

That's fine and all, but you do what's in the best interest for your program. The talks of this all happening now have likely little to with the positive momentum under Oats and more to do with how outdated Coleman is.

What's in the best interest of the program? I mean, "new equipment" is always in the best interest of anyone, but it doesn't mean the current equipment isn't working just fine. Where is our program hurting with Coleman? Where are we lacking? We have seen a jump the last few years starting with Avery, and Oats is seemingly recruiting kids with no issues. They will be long gone before anything is completed, so they must feel the athletic center is good enough. I'm not saying a renovation wouldn't be cool, I just get concerned with the university spending all of this money and it taking away the ability for a lot of us to ever attend. How many people have been outpriced from attending football games now? Basketball isn't far behind with how much everyone is wanting to spend. In all honesty, when is enough, enough?

 

[AFF]

Probably need to give Oats another year to make sure we are in fact headed in a good direction before dropping, what, $100M into a new arena. I am not doubting him at all, I would just absolutely hate if things don't continue to rise that the cost gets passed down to boosters through donations, tickets, concessions, and such.

...or what if Nate Oats gets taken away by a bigger-name basketball program after this year or next?

What if Bama has a great year and wins another SEC title outright and goes to Final 8 or Final 4? Krzyzewski just announced he's retiring after this season. Does Duke or some other big name basketball program searching for a coach make him an offer he can't refuse?

Lots of players want to play the style of ball that Oats plays. We're actually recruiting multiple 5* players in a single class. I have not doubt he'll take the program to new heights - if we can hang on to him.

 

[BamaFan334]

...or what if Nate Oats gets taken away by a bigger-name basketball program after this year or next?

What if Bama has a great year and wins another SEC title outright and goes to Final 8 or Final 4? Krzyzewski just announced he's retiring after this season. Does Duke or some other big name basketball program searching for a coach make him an offer he can't refuse?

Lots of players want to play the style of ball that Oats plays. We're actually recruiting multiple 5* players in a single class. I have not doubt he'll take the program to new heights - if we can hang on to him.

I agree with everything you're saying, but ultimately it's money and perks that will keep him in town, just like Saban. Coach K coached inside Cameron Indoor Stadium his entire career. Pretty sure that place doesn't have AC if I've heard that correctly from boosters I know and hold under 10,000 people. Players want to play for a coach that can get them to the NBA, not necessarily go to a place with a new gym. Coaches want money, perks, and the backing of the athletic department. I know our strength and conditioning, sports science program, and weight rooms are more than sufficient to provide a strong base for our basketball program.

 

[TerryP]

...or what if Nate Oats gets taken away by a bigger-name basketball program after this year or next?

I see this often and I have to ask.

If it's a bigger named program, how would a new arena make Alabama's position any better? These programs don't have a bigger name because of where they play.

And on the flip side of the conversation.

The Pavillon and Allen Field House. Both as old as Coleman and house two top five teams in the nation: UCLA and Kansas. Bigger named programs.

 

[TerryP]

That's fine and all, but you do what's in the best interest for your program. The talks of this all happening now have likely little to with the positive momentum under Oats and more to do with how outdated Coleman is.

That's the crux of the matter and the remodel looked to be solving that, in spades.

Then it comes back to the real issue, the outside of Coleman. People don't like how that looks.

 

[mando]

If it's a bigger named program, how would a new arena make Alabama's position any better? These programs don't have a bigger name because of where they play.

I think the arena or investment into the program could be a carrot for Oats. Unlike in football, Bama basketball does not have the history that pulls in elite talent consistently. Oats and his style are the attraction right now. Do what is needed to keep him happy.

 

[OldPlayer]

I'd think "BAD ANALOGY" would be sufficient enough for a caveat. "You people."

I don't need more than two weeks to know if a name change is going to change Facebook. Nothing has changed outside of the name.

It's no such a bad analogy after all ...



I listed the last three as examples and wouldn't have made the point if it wasn't found in more than one instance.

A&M didn't see a blip on their "success meter" when they rebuilt. It wasn't until Bill Byrne (yes, of that family) fired their coach and brought in Gillispie that they turned the corner: six years after completion.

Arkansas built their new arena in the middle of Nolan's career. Their team fell back from their lofty position after its completion, literally. (Champ during completion year, runner-up, Sweet Sixteen, second round, first round, and then no appearance, and Nolan was gone.)

Tennessee's new home was in the late 80's. Do I credit Summit's success to the building?

The point remains the same. There are no data points to link "new building" equals "better basketball program."

There are data points that say what Alabama's basketball program has is among the best: most can't accept what they can't see with their own two eyes even with the head coach (plural in this case) saying otherwise.

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The biggest plus to a new facility is it will finally be the death of one of the biggest lies we've seen about Coleman and the improvements: "lipstick on a pig."

On the minus side that conversation? It has been a good indicator of how closely people have followed the program.

So good facilities don't help recruiting? Heck, Oregon thinks that uniforms help them.

BTW, the Meta name change is only for the corporate name. Facebook will stay Facebook. It's like Google now being a division of Alphabet.

 

[AFF]

I see this often and I have to ask.

If it's a bigger named program, how would a new arena make Alabama's position any better? These programs don't have a bigger name because of where they play.

And on the flip side of the conversation.

The Pavillon and Allen Field House. Both as old as Coleman and house two top five teams in the nation: UCLA and Kansas. Bigger named programs.

...agreed. And I was also agreeing with BamaFan334 that a big new venue would only drive up prices on tickets and everything else from a fan's perspective. Would be nice to have, but what if we then lose our wunderkind coach, get a less-than-stellar replacement, and are stuck with a big, expensive venue and a team that looks like the post-Gottfried, pre-Oats teams (i.e. boring and definitely not "elite")? Who'd want to pay overpriced tickets to see that?

As Mando mentioned - if Oats wants it and it will keep him happy and in Tuscaloosa - then by all means. But so far, I haven't heard that Oats has mentioned anything about a new arena.

 

[mando]

As Mando mentioned - if Oats wants it and it will keep him happy and in Tuscaloosa - then by all means. But so far, I haven't heard that Oats has mentioned anything about a new arena.

I have tried to be careful in my words by referring to investment into basketball. The AD has to find out what is important to Oats and try to accommodate it. That may or may not be a new arena but that is the AD's just to figure out.

 

[TerryP]

So good facilities don't help recruiting? Heck, Oregon thinks that uniforms help them

Do you think Oregon's uniform changes aren't having an effect on kids? (I'd argue that started a trend that's made it into the corporate world.)

Alabama has good facilities. It's helped them with recruiting.

BTW, the Meta name change is only for the corporate name. Facebook will stay Facebook. It's like Google now being a division of Alphabet.

Based purely on a decade's of experience dealing with Facebook on a business level I'll stand by my standpoint: at its core it remains, and will remain, the same. It's merely a re-branding from our point of view.

 

[TerryP]

As Mando mentioned - if Oats wants it and it will keep him happy and in Tuscaloosa - then by all means. But so far, I haven't heard that Oats has mentioned anything about a new arena.

He said something the other day and immediately backtracked from the comment, from what I understand. I saw a few reference an interview where he said new arena and then others mention he tried to walk it back.

He has commented on the renovation proposals, the facilities, and the overall subject here a few times.

Where they spend 90% of their time, an area we don't see, is one of the finest in the collegiate basketball world. Oats is repeating what Avery Johnson said about what they have to work with in Coleman.

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I don't know of anyone that wouldn't want a new arena. If it comes about I DO KNOW I don't want to have anything to do with the conversations on what it should look.

Except that it should keep the motif of campus...
But not look like The Round House...
Or, something as pretentious as Gorgas...
Perhaps the look of a courthouse, like Ferguson.