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It just so happens, since my departure from that "stuff," I have grown to not only find it alien to me, but I can't help but see its waste. Anything that attracts crowds like that with purpose and meaning as the focus, and it doesn't channel the unity and energy towards productive collective action, is a wasted opportunity. Mobilizing so many people just to sing songs and listen to sermons about myth, theology, alleged spirit realms, and fantasy, rather than concrete strategies to improve the physical world, is exactly what corrupt rulers want. It detracts from assigning responsibility and blame upon those most responsible for the evil in the world. That's why governments have always subsidized Christianity, either directly or indirectly via tax exempt status. Anything that the State subsidizes, should be viewed with suspicion, if you want a better world, that is. I realize what I'm saying is anathema to most on here, but after all, that's why I'm sharing it. ;)
Here's where you say, "oops."

I said I was following the tour for the music. I found it fascinating.

The church I attend? Fulfills exactly what you are trying to say isn't being done. That's because you have not looked. 🤷‍♂️

Need food? ✅
Need clothes? ✅
Need your car repaired so you can get to work? ✅
Need a doctor? 🏁 (North Charleston Dream Center | Seacoast Church)


subsidized Christianity,

Which is giving back in every way possible; in some cases. This in an umbrella thing again.
 
It has occurred to me that my attempt to be clever by integrating multiple thread topics into my previous reply to you may have resulted in a dismissive tone to your kind gesture. Let me say that I appreciate the invitation you extended to me and others in that other thread to attend one of these concerts/events. When I used to be in that world, behind such an offer would have only been the sincerest and purest of motives. So please know I appreciate that.
95% of the trip would be about food...
 
I would rather have meds made from cannabis than opioids…Ive seen opioids and benzos ruin entirely too many lives
Is this not what I've been saying for years? You wouldn't know. You haven't been here. Still...

This is one of my biggest struggles in rational thinking. Let's pump that guy full of stuff we made versus some of the stuff that was grown, naturally. It makes no sense.

You don't realize how back-ass this whole thing has become.
 
Here's where you say, "oops."

I said I was following the tour for the music. I found it fascinating.
Here's where I say, "I listened to it ... and it wasn't instrumental. There were Christian lyrics. With people in the all too familiar charismatic trance. And when someone invites you to such events, it's always evangelistic in nature." So where's my oops?
The church I attend? Fulfills exactly what you are trying to say isn't being done. That's because you have not looked.
Great to hear. I'm well aware that there are churches and other nonprofits out there attempting to alleviate the suffering. What I'm talking about though is ending the policies that create the suffering. You mentioned charity. I'm talking about reducing the need for charity. Spiritual redemption distracts from the material suffering, hence the Church needs the State and the State needs the Church. They're symbiotic partners in predation. But they don't have to be. The Church could choose to do something else, but it might come at the risk of its tax exempt status.
Which is giving back in every way possible; in some cases.
Again, wouldn't it be nice not to have to give back? To be able to keep more of what's yours.
 
Tuscaloosa and McCalla are not the same. Neither is Johns Creek and Roswell.
Mt Pleasant and West Ashley aren't the same...but to the world, it's still Charleston. The mention of you was because you live in the area. I thought it was Sandy Springs. That's not too different than several of the outskirt city's around ATL.
 
Here's where I say, "I listened to it ... and it wasn't instrumental. There were Christian lyrics. With people in the all too familiar charismatic trance. And when someone invites you to such events, it's always evangelistic in nature." So where's my oops?
The "oops" was what I followed with...the things you said the 'church' isn't doing. It's all about the specific church with me.

I find it a little intriguing that you mention this "charismatic trace" when the winner of America's Got Talent did so singing the music I've mentioned over the years.

What trance was the audience and judges, at a TV show, under when they voted her the winner?

A bit confusing on my end.
 
The "oops" was what I followed with...the things you said the 'church' isn't doing.
I said "concrete strategies to improve the physical world."

You replied with examples of charity.

I replied with clarification of what I previously meant. Charity, in my opinion, only mitigates deprivation and suffering. Now this is not insignificant as it provides immediate relief. However, it preserves the power disparity between the powerful and powerless. Therefore it falls short of what I had in mind in my rebuke of the universal church. We've all heard that it's better to teach a man to fish than to give him a fish. Independence and self-sufficiency should be the goal, not endless aid. A quote from MLK Jr comes to mind:
“Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary.”

Analogous to the MLK Jr quote is another famous quote by Clay Shirky, which became known as the Shirky Principle:
Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.
Lot's of examples of this happening, but here's a recent article that crossed my eyes:

So whenever I see hundreds, if not thousands, of religious people gathered together supposedly for a "higher," divine cause (as in the videos you shared), I think of what a missed opportunity it is. Imagine the same numbers of people choosing to gather instead for a "lowly," terrestrial cause, or dare I say, political cause, to change unjust laws or polices that create poverty, that allow food manufacturers to sell toxic food, that allow water authorities to poison the water supply, to improve public health so that fewer people fall ill, and so on. Heck, there are hundreds of issues which if rectified could reduce the needs of the needy. What we see all too often is the status quo being kept intact by charities keeping the needy addicted to their crumbs, rather than redirecting their vast resources to liberate the needy from their poverty. But then, to MLK Jr's larger point, to reduce the number of the needy would be a threat to the system itself. What need would we have for government welfare programs, charities, philanthropists, and the donor class itself, if the people were freer, richer, and healthier to take care of themselves? Would we need religious charities and government social welfare if they weren't taking what already belonged to us?

More than helping the poor, the goal should be reducing poverty. Churches (and non-profits in general) protect the status quo by not challenging government authorities. Why? Because these same authorities grant them tax exempt status. And some people get a perverse sense of self-worth and social status by saying they help the less fortunate. So to take that away from them would be an attack on their self esteem. Sickening.

If the masses could finally discover the manipulation behind statecraft (e.g. wealth redistribution, welfare, national defense, etc.), perhaps they would stop paying their taxes and submitting to civil authorities. Similarly, if the masses could finally discover the manipulation behind the doctrine of Original Sin, perhaps they would stop paying their tithes and submitting to the priesthood. Neither institution wants that, so they protect and reinforce each other.
 
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Ha you act as if this is new. Lots of threads eventually meander. This will be the 112th reply in this thread, so what do you expect?? 😄
AT this minute, waiting for someone at Home Depot to explain how I got charged $200 for something that's tagged, on sale, at $149. I'm waiting in line watching Modern Family just to laugh a bit.

Not a...shall we say...great day?
 
@musso took me a minute to find this video.

I'm citing it because I don't think you are seeing what's happening around you. There's a revolution of spirituality happening. And, it's under a ... context? I have no answers. I'm just watching.

Dude. This is not the church you look at anymore.

Let's call it "Progressive Christianity."

 
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