🌎 Israel vs. Iran, and where will the US fit in?

[24and7]

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Do you remember the song “soon” by Tanya Tucker?… I wonder if she would come out of retirement and do a song called “don’t”… but it may not pay off for her because nobody listens to that anyway..

 

[musso]

Yet, you'll always blame America first. That's not analysis, that's a default position.

Because guess what??? That’s my country. It’s the only government on the planet that pretends to care what I think, the only government which claims to represent my concerns and interests, and the only government that claims to act on my behalf! It’s the only government which taxes my earnings and debases my purchasing power. It’s the only government I have any chance of influencing. There’s no point in criticizing a government which doesn’t even claim to represent me, unless of course it’s on the receiving end of my tax dollars and/or lobbies my politicians for preferential treatment overseas.

And like I’ve already expressed (which you keep avoiding), the burden of proof is on power, not freedom, war, not peace, imperialists, not separatists, invaders, not insurgents, occupiers, not rebels, etc. Aggression demands justification, not self-defense. We don’t scrutinize freedom and non-intervention. Rather it is intervention and control that require a reckoning.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Because guess what??? That’s my country. It’s the only government on the planet that pretends to care what I think and the only government which claims to represent my concerns and interests. It’s the only government which withholds my taxes from my paychecks. It’s the only government I have any chance of influencing. There’s no point in criticizing a government which doesn’t even claim to represent me, unless of course it’s on the receiving end of my tax dollars and/or lobbies my politicians for preferential treatment overseas.

And like I’ve already expressed (which you keep avoiding), the burden of proof is on power, not freedom, war, not peace, empire, not rebels, invaders, not insurgents, occupiers, not freedom-fighters, etc. Aggression demands justification, not self-defense. We don’t scrutinize freedom and non-intervention. Rather it is intervention and control which require a reckoning.

Really? You've already claimed the United States is, and has been for the last 80 years, an authoritarian government. Why would you think they care what you think, or even pretend to care?

You don't feel you have the license to criticize any other government? You just criticized the UK and France, and please don't forget your initial screed against Israel...

 

[musso]

Why would you think they care what you think, or even pretend to care?

To be clear I didn’t claim I believe they care. But because representation is the basis of their authority, they must, at a minimum, pretend to care. And this obligation to care can be utilized and leveraged to box our leaders into a corner to do the right thing. Vestiges like “We the People,” “inalienable rights endowed by our Creator,” the Bill of Rights, separation of powers, etc., while all superficial on one hand, can actually be utilized as powerful rhetorical tools against our government. So yes, it matters to vociferously express your views, to engage your fellow citizens in debates, to learn from each other’s arguments, and to exercise your rights on a frequent basis because whatever isn’t used gets lost. And boundaries that aren’t regularly reinforced are soon violated and disregarded.

You don't feel you have the license to criticize any other government?

Uh no, I don’t feel I need a license to criticize foreign governments. But I’ve already explained why it’s useless to complain about governments which don’t answer to us and are a fraction of the inconvenience in our lives that our own government is. And like I’ve already stated, you blame first the parties most responsible for the state of the world. And in determining who that is, you begin with the former colonial powers who created and manipulate international institutions, who have invaded, occupied, and destroyed the most number of foreign lands and peoples, who have the largest military and intelligence budgets, the largest imperial footprints, the largest debts, etc. In other words, you don’t blame poor children desperately throwing rocks at armored vehicles before first blaming the nuclear monopolist in the region who has the most aggressive lobbying and blackmail operations in every country with the largest defense and finance industries. You don’t blame non-nuclear Iran for any wrong doings before first taking responsibility for the thousands of civilian deaths and millions of refugees you’ve created which have made life difficult for other countries in the region like Iran.

You just criticized the UK and France, and please don't forget your initial screed against Israel...

You can call my criticisms screeds, or you can point to my inaccuracies and include any important points I’ve not properly accounted for.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Uh no, I don’t feel I need a license to criticize foreign governments. But I’ve already explained why it’s useless to complain about governments which don’t answer to us and are a fraction of the inconvenience in our lives that our own government is.

Then why spend all that time complaining about Israel?

 

[musso]

Then why spend all that time complaining about Israel?

There’s no point in criticizing a government which doesn’t even claim to represent me, unless of course it’s on the receiving end of my tax dollars and/or lobbies my politicians for preferential treatment overseas.

I realize I’ve written a lot… so I’ll try harder to be brief.

Another item worth mentioning is when foreign governments lobby my government for not only foreign aid (ie corporate welfare) but then with that aid give their citizens free healthcare, free housing, and worse of all, use that aid to agitate people in their neighborhood who in return retaliate by exploiting the freedoms and openness we enjoy here in the US to attack us as Israel’s enabler. Moreover Israel lobbies state governments too to enact loyalty oath legislation that prohibits public officials or government contractors from expressing opposition to Israel. They also lobby universities, states and the Fed’s to criminalize antisemitism and along the way redefine it so as to equate it with anti-Zionism in addition to a long list of other ridiculous actions that further restricts free speech, political expression, and the acceptable range of political debate.

You really don’t know about all this?

 

[TerryP]

Oh I haven't heard that justification. Last I heard Israel hadn't even officially taken credit for the strike, much less provided a reason.

Not a big fan of the word "justification" here...nevertheless. There are so many little intricacies to this whole thing.

I understand the building they bombed was next to the Iranian embassy. The general was meeting with both Hamas and Hezbollah leaders. The same guy was responsible for the planning on the 7th.

There's reason to entertain the possibility of a false flag on the 7th, but even if you reject that, the incident on the 7th was immediately after the raids on Al-Aqsa mosque (third holiest site) where they were beating unarmed people and using tear gas and rubber bullets for no known reason.

False flag? If not Hamas, who have taken credit, whom?

Looking at the mosque story from a very casual start.

We have a public building for worship where demonstrators/protesters have barricaded themselves inside the building. They are breaking the law in spite of the reasons cited.

The police intervene and arrest those who are trespassing by their law. From that view, it's pretty simple.

 

[64Tide]

The real reason Islam is trying to fight Israel right now is because the red heifer cows are about to be sacrificed.. the red heifer cows must be sacrificed during Passover between April 22 and May 1.. this is the process they need to begin constructing the Jewish temple.. In order for them to build the Jewish temple. They must destroy the Dome of the Rock.. The Dome of the Rock is one of the most sacred sites in Islam will surely bring Jihad from everywhere..

After the trouble making Christians disappear from the earth, the anti-Christ will broker a peaceful solution to this dilemma during the first half of the Tribulation. The temple will be rebuilt on this site and the Jewish priests will resume the animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant. There will be peace in the Middle East for 3 1/2 years. The anti-Christ will then enter the most sacred part of the temple and demand to be worshipped as God. He and his cohorts will then attempt to destroy every Jew on the earth. The armies of the anti-Christ wiill be destroyed at the Battle of Armageddon by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

I realize I’ve written a lot… so I’ll try harder to be brief.

Another item worth mentioning is when foreign governments lobby my government for not only foreign aid (ie corporate welfare) but then with that aid give their citizens free healthcare, free housing, and worse of all, use that aid to agitate people in their neighborhood who in return retaliate by exploiting the freedoms and openness we enjoy here in the US to attack us as Israel’s enabler. Moreover Israel lobbies state governments too to enact loyalty oath legislation that prohibits public officials or government contractors from expressing opposition to Israel. They also lobby universities, states and the Fed’s to criminalize antisemitism and along the way redefine it so as to equate it with anti-Zionism in addition to a long list of other ridiculous actions that further restricts free speech, political expression, and the acceptable range of political debate.

You really don’t know about all this?

You should try harder.

 

[musso]

After the trouble making Christians disappear from the earth, the anti-Christ will broker a peaceful solution

“I'll fly away, oh glory
I'll fly away (In the morning)…”

The events cryptically referred to in the Book of Revelation were in the past. Like far distant past. The number of the Beast, 666, referred to Emperor Nero in Greek. And if there is any doubt to this, there’s an alternate manuscript of the text that reads 616, which also equals to Nero’s title, in Latin if my memory serves me.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there will be no Superman who will save us. Escapism isn’t the answer, although it’s quite convenient for people in authority. They don’t mind us waiting around for another 2,000 years. It’s up to us to grow up, man up, put our big boy pants on, take responsibility for ourselves, and try to save ourselves by challenging the leaders who keep dragging us into one crisis after the next. It doesn’t have to be this way, but fatalistic thinking and belief in prophecy has a way of becoming self-fulfilling: if you believe circumstances must be bad, then you’ll be more tolerant of evil, which then allows for circumstances to worsen. Any ideology that accommodates evil, like apocalypticism, helps to make the world … more apocalyptic.

 

[TerryP]

The events cryptically referred to in the Book of Revelation were in the past. Like far distant past.

One key thing you forgot here. In my opinion, the events cryptically...

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I came across this video yesterday. I was struck by her beauty—I'm done, over, when it comes to brown eyes like her's—and intrigued by her lips. Then I started listening.

I appreciate the succinct manner ...

 

[TerryP]

It’s up to us to grow up, man up, put our big boy pants on, and save ourselves by challenging the leaders who keep dragging us into one crisis after the next.

Who keep creating one crisis after the next then insisting on involvement? More apropos, wouldn't you say?

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[musso]

One key thing you forgot here. In my opinion, the events cryptically...

I don’t follow. You’re being too cryptic yourself. Come on, this is a safe space, say what you mean.

Then I started listening.

An Iranian with a British accent and a social media channel, eh? Lol if your spidy sense doesn’t tingle from this, maybe the wrong part of you is tingling. Just a terrible and myopic take on the issue, clearly part of a psyop.

 

[TerryP]

I don’t follow. You’re being too cryptic yourself. Come on, this is a safe space, say what you mean.

You were telling him about when the events written of in Revelations happened. "In your opinion" was the missing prefix. There are a lot who believe differently.

Again I don’t follow. Your syntax is muddled.

You gotta start doin' drugs, or somethin'.

You say "dragging in," I say "creating."

Now scroll back up ..

 

[64Tide]

“I'll fly away, oh glory
I'll fly away (In the morning)…”

The events cryptically referred to in the Book of Revelation were in the past. Like far distant past. The number of the Beast, 666, referred to Emperor Nero in Greek. And if there is any doubt to this, there’s an alternate manuscript of the text that reads 616, which also equals to Nero’s title, in Latin if my memory serves me.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there will be no Superman who will save us. Escapism isn’t the answer, although it’s quite convenient for people in authority. They don’t mind us waiting around for another 2,000 years. It’s up to us to grow up, man up, put our big boy pants on, take responsibility for ourselves, and try to save ourselves by challenging the leaders who keep dragging us into one crisis after the next. It doesn’t have to be this way, but fatalistic thinking and belief in prophecy has a way of becoming self-fulfilling: if you believe circumstances must be bad, then you’ll be more tolerant of evil, which then allows for circumstances to worsen. Any ideology that accommodates evil, like apocalyptic beliefs, helps to make the world … apocalyptic.

In the past? Source?

 

[24and7]

After the trouble making Christians disappear from the earth, the anti-Christ will broker a peaceful solution to this dilemma during the first half of the Tribulation. The temple will be rebuilt on this site and the Jewish priests will resume the animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant. There will be peace in the Middle East for 3 1/2 years. The anti-Christ will then enter the most sacred part of the temple and demand to be worshipped as God. He and his cohorts will then attempt to destroy every Jew on the earth. The armies of the anti-Christ wiill be destroyed at the Battle of Armageddon by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is a script and is being followed… The demonic world leaders feel it is their job to bring it about..GW Bush got us into Iraq because he felt it was his job to “carry out biblical prophecy”,,.The atheist don’t believe in it anyway and will do nothing to stop it… Christians won’t do anything to stop it because they feel like it’s inevitable…Then you have the preppers..
These cows will be sacrificed because most Jews believe it will bring their “Messiah”..And that will cause a Jihad..It’s happening right now.. Watch and see..

 

[musso]

You were telling him about when the events written of in Revelations happened. "In your opinion" was the missing prefix. There are a lot who believe differently.

Ah yes, I see. Sure, some people believe in astrology, palm readers, the fortune cookies placed in their Chinese take out bags, etc. The facts are:

we have two versions of Revelation offering two different numbers,

both of these numbers are the sum of Nero’s title (in the Greek and Latin respectively),
and given what we know about Nero’s reign, namely his hostility to Christians after the fires…

So no, there is no defensible reason to apply Revelation to any other period of time. There’s much that is debatable in biblical studies, but not this. Now in communities of faith, of course there are self-reinforcing mechanisms to “keep the faith,” or from a pastor’s perspective, to “keep the flock.” To this end, denominations keep reinterpreting Scripture in whatever way that best keeps people in the community. Community preservation is the only concern, not truth. This has been going on century after century, millennium after millennium, by projecting current events into the text. The convenient part is the theme of imperial ascent, corruption and collapse is attractive since it’s always occurring in every century and in every millennium.

 

[64Tide]

@ musso So who wrote this version of Revelation? I’m not familiar with it.

 

[musso]

@ musso So who wrote this version of Revelation? I’m not familiar with it.

Who wrote any of the books is a mystery. But what I’m saying is some copies of Revelation that circulated at the time read 616 rather than 666. This makes sense when you realize numerology is only communicated relative to the language of your audience. If you’re writing to the Greek-speaking East, Nero’s title will equal to 666. If you’re writing to the Latin-speaking West, his title equaled to 616. This is one of the easiest biblical texts to date. Scholars know this, but unfortunately many believers don’t.

 

[TerryP]

@musso getting drawn into 616 vs 666, when both are metaphorical, seems like a waste of time. The book discusses the mark of the beast as being on the hand and forehead. Who is to say what John envisioned in his writings.

I'm unaware of arguments about a different author than John. Different translations aren't uncommon.

'Who wrote any of the books' is an odd question.