🏈 How Many Games Did UA Win in 2008?

[TheChief]

Am I wrong in thinking that Alabama is the only school that has to vacate wins? I don't remember other schools doing so, even when it has been proven that they pay millions to star players. Yes, I'm talking about Bush.

This leads to the topic. How many games did the Tide win in 2008? Will your answer right now be the same answer you give three or four years from now? Is there a swimmer on campus paddling his arms off right now just waiting to go give away a pencil or pen and get slapped with ridiculous sanctions that will include the football team? Does it matter if we look back and say the NCAA took these wins away, or does it only matter if we win or lose for a period of say, oh, twelve months?

As far as the NCAA is concerned, I have sort of thought "Whatever" to myself for several years. Textbooks? Vacated wins? Whatever... Is it football season yet?

 

[UAgrad93]

The wins that are to be vacated don't include the 08 season. The number of wins still stands at 12.

 

[TheChief]

These sanctions don't include '08. What about things that are occuring right now? That's what I'm saying. You don't honestly think nothing else will happen do you? It's impossible for things not to happen. It won't be because Saban isn't watching or condoning things or not doing his job. He'll do all he can. Things do happen, and the NCAA will blow them out of proportion.

As far as the textbooks and little blue books, no one on this board can honestly say that if they had a book that they had already used, or had a blue test booklet that were not going to use, and a fellow student said, "Can I have that?" that they would not give it to them. Congratulations, you just commited an infraction.

 

[porkchop]

These sanctions don't include '08. What about things that are occuring right now? That's what I'm saying. You don't honestly think nothing else will happen do you? It's impossible for things not to happen. It won't be because Saban isn't watching or condoning things or not doing his job. He'll do all he can. Things do happen, and the NCAA will blow them out of proportion.

As far as the textbooks and little blue books, no one on this board can honestly say that if they had a book that they had already used, or had a blue test booklet that were not going to use, and a fellow student said, "Can I have that?" that they would not give it to them. Congratulations, you just commited an infraction.

Chief, IMHO, the worst part about this whole scam (and that's what it is) is that we're back on probation. That means we're liable to suffer more penalties in the near future. This is exactly what the NCAA wants is to have BAMA on perpetual probation. We're easier to control that way.

 

[TheChief]

I agree completely, and hence the frustration. I just don't think there has been equitable treatment across the board. Just the thought of watching games this year and thinking, "Well, we might not have actually won that game" makes me nauseous.

 

[TidePride50]

I understand the frustration and agree with alot of what you are saying, but let's not forget that we were doing something wrong here. And it was going on right under our nose. Someone has to be held accountable for that.

 

[porkchop]

I understand the frustration and agree with alot of what you are saying, but let's not forget that we were doing something wrong here. And it was going on right under our nose. Someone has to be held accountable for that.

Just about everyone that has ever been to college has done this. It goes on everywhere. This is another example of selective enforcement by an NCAA that has an ax to grind. The whole situation is laughable IMHO.

 

[jocephus8179]

The 3 years probation thing, it reminds me of that song, I always feel like somebody's watching me. lol. But honestly, vacating wins is what really hits me in the gut. Because in 07, I went to my first Alabama football game and took my dad. It was only his second game he had ever been to and his first time to ever go to BDS. It was the Arkansas game. An SEC team that was supposed to beat us. AND WE PULLED OFF A HUGE WIN. I know we beat them on the field. But vacating wins is like taking memorable moments away from the fans. When J.P. threw that pass to Caddell for the win, I grabbed my dad and gave him the biggest damn hug. Neary threw him over the railing into Eli's lap. lol. Now they want to make it like that day never happened. But the ncaa can kiss my @$$. Heartless commies.:fight:

 

[TerryP]

Just about everyone that has ever been to college has done this. It goes on everywhere. This is another example of selective enforcement by an NCAA that has an ax to grind. The whole situation is laughable IMHO.

And schools that have been in situations where they failed to have an accurate monitoring system in place were put on probation because of it as well.

Ball State, Texas State, and Arizona State are all example.

The only differences in Bama's compared to those examples was the length of probation with Bama getting three and those schools getting two. But, those schools weren't in the same situation either.

More importantly, this is just the first part in the sanctions phase. It's not over yet, and until it is I see a lot jumping to conclusions far too early.

 

[AFF]

The committee names I heard on the conference call included places like Miami, Notre Dame, and Conference USA. If the NCAA had hoped to be in keeping with the "American way" (which it obviously is not), then the COI is not exactly made up of a jury of our "peers".

I also don't like the fact that these sanctions are strictly punitive. It does nothing to help fix the problem. All I heard the COI say was "you should have been watching closer" rather than, "the manner in which you watched was inefective. However, we had no standards in place outlining the way in which you should have monitored this type of situation. Henceforth, with respect to the monitoring of the distribution of textbooks, it should be done in the following manner..."

Of course they didn't do that and I think they intentionally didn't for a reason. If they (the NCAA) are clear and concise about the manner in which the monitoring should be done, then they couldn't jump in and punish whomever they want whenever they want. It's kind of like the old saying, the police can pull you over any time for anything if they want. They can ALWAYS find some reason to justify it. Even if they have to level a night stick across your tail light after the fact.

 

[TerryP]

The committee names I heard on the conference call included places like Miami, Notre Dame, and Conference USA. If the NCAA had hoped to be in keeping with the "American way" (which it obviously is not), then the COI is not exactly made up of a jury of our "peers".

I also don't like the fact that these sanctions are strictly punitive. It does nothing to help fix the problem. All I heard the COI say was "you should have been watching closer" rather than, "the manner in which you watched was inefective. However, we had no standards in place outlining the way in which you should have monitored this type of situation. Henceforth, with respect to the monitoring of the distribution of textbooks, it should be done in the following manner..."

Of course they didn't do that and I think they intentionally didn't for a reason. If they (the NCAA) are clear and concise about the manner in which the monitoring should be done, then they couldn't jump in and punish whomever they want whenever they want. It's kind of like the old saying, the police can pull you over any time for anything if they want. They can ALWAYS find some reason to justify it. Even if they have to level a night stick across your tail light after the fact.

Here's the opposite side of that.

The bookstore corrected the problem by basically stapling the bag shut at the counter where the student athletes pick up their books so they couldn't add anything else to the bag.

In essence, that takes care of the 22 involved in giving books away.

BUT, the problem was also in the CASS offices...and then who those offices reported directly to - Kevin Almond.

 

[252BAMA]

Am I wrong in thinking that Alabama is the only school that has to vacate wins? I don't remember other schools doing so, even when it has been proven that they pay millions to star players. Yes, I'm talking about Bush.

This leads to the topic. How many games did the Tide win in 2008? Will your answer right now be the same answer you give three or four years from now? Is there a swimmer on campus paddling his arms off right now just waiting to go give away a pencil or pen and get slapped with ridiculous sanctions that will include the football team? Does it matter if we look back and say the NCAA took these wins away, or does it only matter if we win or lose for a period of say, oh, twelve months?

As far as the NCAA is concerned, I have sort of thought "Whatever" to myself for several years. Textbooks? Vacated wins? Whatever... Is it football season yet?

In answer to your first question about other schools:

AP - Jun 11, 1:55 pm EDT NCAAF Gallery TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP)—The dispute between the NCAA and Florida State University over sanctions that could force the school to forfeit wins in 10 sports and a national track championship is drawing scrutiny from some of the state’s elected officials.

 

[porkchop]

It seems that historically, all NCAA intervention is punitive.You're then left to clean up the mess.

This is the real danger (in my mind) with the probation. Even if BAMA self-reports a violation, no matter how minor, then you're as good as screwed. Seems like a counter-productive philosophy to me. You'd think that the NCAA would want schools to report violations and not fear repercussions after they've gone and fixed the problem.

The way the NCAA handles things is more like double jeopardy.

 

[psychojoe]

My issue with the NCAA on this is that they are making rules on matters that the school should be handling. It is true that we were doing a poor job of monitoring the textbook situation. However, it became apparent early on that this was not a back door way for athletes to get some extra cash, but instead a loophole in our system that allowed athletes to get textbooks for others. Once the NCAA determined that this did not result in extra benefits for athletes they should have lightly spanked our hand and bowed out, since we had fixed the problem. As has been said earlier it is a great leap to say this player is ineligible because he got a textbook for his girlfriend.

The NCAA rulebook is almost as incomprehensible as the U S tax code. Greatly simplifying it and having some general guidelines to adhere to would make for better understanding and better complaince.

 

[rolltide1969]

IMHO.... This is nowhere near as bad as the academic scandal at Auburn, that all the school's officials covered up. There is no fairness to this ncaa....