🏈 Evolution of the Saban offense

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

My bad; I thought you simply were being dismissive. Probably should have stated that better.

Here's another try: Given the high volume of plays typically run by a HUNH offense (that cost opponents 10 or so add'l defensive plays per game in comparison to traditional offenses), plus the addition of 1:05 seconds & its 4-5 additional plays, you are looking at 15-20 or so additional plays per game. 15 or so additional plays per game could equate to 3 or more additional possessions for the HUNH offense......

Could and should are speculative qualifiers based on certain conditions.

You cannot make a solid argument on speculation.

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Team Cornwell

 

[Bammerboy321]

The 1:05 loss in possession is quite possibly more plays than the 4-5 number, but is clearly less than the 10-15 number. 10 would be 6.5 seconds per play, which no one does. It could be 6-7 additional plays per game that our defense is playing, which could mean a little under a regular drive additional per game.

Nevertheless, the hurry up style we ran last year probably had less to do with that than the number of big plays we hit had to do with it. If you hit more big plays, your time of possession decreases. It's a side effect of having a more explosive offense, regardless of how many plays you actually run during the game.

Another point to the hurry up style that was played last year can also be pointed to the offensive line. Often, Alabama would run the hurry up to try and catch the defense off guard, and Yeldon or Henry would run the ball successfully. The offensive line, although good, was not as physical as past years offensive lines at Alabama. They didn't take over games like other great 'Bama lines, so it was used basically as an element of surprise almost to successfully run the ball. I don't expect that to be the approach this year with an improved offensive line.

 

[Barnabus Stinson]

Another point to the hurry up style that was played last year can also be pointed to the offensive line. Often, Alabama would run the hurry up to try and catch the defense off guard, and Yeldon or Henry would run the ball successfully. The offensive line, although good, was not as physical as past years offensive lines at Alabama. They didn't take over games like other great 'Bama lines, so it was used basically as an element of surprise almost to successfully run the ball. I don't expect that to be the approach this year with an improved offensive line.

This is a great point. A lot of people point to the QB situation as to why we went HUNH, but the OL was clearly a factor. We couldn't go HTWMI against SCAR and just lineup and say you can't stop us.

 

[wiregrass_bamaguy]

JMO, but I think alot of it has to do with 2 things. First, in the '08 class, we hit the jackpot with Barron, Darious, Hightower, Upshaw and Cody. Not a bad start for building a defense; not to mention the "stars" we got on offense. IMO, it just comes down to the fact that we have had less hits in '12 and 13' as far as overall superstar talent. Im not saying we havent had talent since then; Im just saying that we had alot of impact players in that draft and in '09. Secondly, in '08 on, our defense was geared toward stopping the run and containing the qb. Now that offenses are evolving, our defense is having to change and it seems like its been a bit of a struggle in that regard.

 

[utstnx]

Lets get back on track. Saban...in one of his recent press conferences said that "We broke a lot of records last year. Almost all of the offensive school records. and what was the result? We allowed more big plays than ever before on D. We wore our Defense out. They had to get back on the field too early and too often. We have to get back to what we do. We kinda got away from that last year. We got to get back to dominate out opponent. Line up in front of the man in front of you and he knows you are going to run and you know we are going to run and he cant stop you. Thats what we do do. That's what we are known for. So we gotta get back to that" He even said that Barrett Jones said that was one of the most fun parts in the game was in the forth quarter. We knew what we were doing...They knew what we were doing and you cant stop us"

Saban basically said ....this year we are going to slow the offense down. Run the ball more...hold the ball longer and our D will give up less big plays because they are not as worn out. I am all for it!

 

[Hannibal Lecter MD]

This is a great point. A lot of people point to the QB situation as to why we went HUNH, but the OL was clearly a factor. We couldn't go HTWMI against SCAR and just lineup and say you can't stop us.

We went NH a lot, but not really HU...the whole argument is kinda weird.

 

[Barnabus Stinson]

We went NH a lot, but not really HU...the whole argument is kinda weird.

Agreed. I think it's just common to lump them together.

 

[Bammerboy321]

We went NH a lot, but not really HU...the whole argument is kinda weird.

I think Auburn does this a lot if you pay attention. If anyone has watched their offense, they're not really like Oregon, where they like to go as fast as possible and score as many points. In 2013, Auburn was one the best in controlling the clock, while still going NH. Prime example is the '13 IB, where they wouldn't allow Alabama to substitute, but would still control the clock. If Alabama would have substituted at any time, they would have been penalized because AU would have snapped the ball at a certain time, not giving the players enough time to run off the field or the other players not enough time to get into their defensive positions. Average time of snap is important also. Pay attention to them this year. Their philosophy is a lot like ours, its just in the spread formation. Same physical style, same attack, and same management from the QB.

 

[QuackQuackBang]

The other 10-15 plays you're speculating on is going to occur regardless of what offense we run.

I disagree. Where we differ, I believe, is in UofA time of possession. Were we in control of the ball offensively for longer durations, then the HUNH opponent does not get all of those plays, maybe not any of those plays.

.....the hurry up style .... had less to do with that than the number of big plays we hit .... If you hit more big plays, your time of possession decreases. It's a side effect of having a more explosive offense...

I agree. I'm certainly not advocating for fewer explosive plays. Who would want Coop to take a knee after burning his defender over the top just to extend time of posssesion?

I'm remain curious, though, as to whether a control of possession oriented offense would have a significant impact upon the HUNH. Such an approach is not without risk. If your game plan is a slow, methodical march from ball control and the HUNH opponent hits a couple of quick strikes, then you may be in too big of a hole and have to abandon the game plan and fight fire with fire.

Perhaps that's where CNS finds himself now. Why run the risk of falling behind and having to adjust the game plan mid-game when "we can take a variation of your HUNH and do it better than you b/c we have better athletes," he may be thinking....

 

[QuackQuackBang]

Could and should are speculative qualifiers based on certain conditions.

You cannot make a solid argument on speculation.

Perhaps the semantics are lost on you, but this is a discussion and not arguing.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

Perhaps the semantics are lost on you, but this is a discussion and not arguing.

No, you're still arguing your point after you've been proven wrong.

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Team Cornwell

 

[Tidestalker]

Saban adapted last year because the pro style QB wasn't ready... And it became very apparent the OL wasn't either.

If the OL and defense gets back to playing dominant football, the hurry up may not be necessary. Need to find a QB who can limit mistakes and make decent throws on first down. That is Saban ball.

 

[QuackQuackBang]

To each his own, SLO. To each his own.

 

[Snout Spout]

Which gets us back to the OP. Is the Achilles of the HUNH the original ball control, smash mouth, 3 yds per play offense that CNS ran in his first couple of years? If the HUNH opponent is sitting on the sidelines, they can't run high numbers of plays. Plus, HUNH seems to be premised upon synchronicity. Surely long stretches on the sidelines would disrupt the flow of that offense even more. The best thing that can happen for a HUNH offense is for its defense to force a 3 and out.

We can't pass on the chance to score points, especially when we haven't had the kind of OL the last couple years that can get 4 yds+ on the ground at will. You're an OC, you see a chance to score a TD, you don't take it because it means scoring too quickly? So you pass on that, you get 2 yards and a cloud of dust. 2 plays later maybe you're punting or turning the ball over. It's tough to turn down scoring opportunities in favor of an 8 minute march unless you've got a reliable QB and a stud OL, especially when you have a porous defensive backfield that gives up TDs on jump balls on 3rd and 20s.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

We can't pass on the chance to score points, especially when we haven't had the kind of OL the last couple years that can get 4 yds+ on the ground at will. You're an OC, you see a chance to score a TD, you don't take it because it means scoring too quickly? So you pass on that, you get 2 yards and a cloud of dust. 2 plays later maybe you're punting or turning the ball over. It's tough to turn down scoring opportunities in favor of an 8 minute march unless you've got a reliable QB and a stud OL, especially when you have a porous defensive backfield that gives up TDs on jump balls on 3rd and 20s.

This.

We haven't exactly had a road grading O-line in a couple years.

________________________________
Team Cornwell

 

[Biff1]

I think Auburn does this a lot if you pay attention. If anyone has watched their offense, they're not really like Oregon, where they like to go as fast as possible and score as many points. In 2013, Auburn was one the best in controlling the clock, while still going NH. Prime example is the '13 IB, where they wouldn't allow Alabama to substitute, but would still control the clock. If Alabama would have substituted at any time, they would have been penalized because AU would have snapped the ball at a certain time, not giving the players enough time to run off the field or the other players not enough time to get into their defensive positions. Average time of snap is important also. Pay attention to them this year. Their philosophy is a lot like ours, its just in the spread formation. Same physical style, same attack, and same management from the QB.

Yep. AU is not the HU team people conceive them as. They are primarily NH. They will sit at that line till the clock is in single digits most every time.

 

[Biff1]

Saban adapted last year because the pro style QB wasn't ready... And it became very apparent the OL wasn't either.

If the OL and defense gets back to playing dominant football, the hurry up may not be necessary. Need to find a QB who can limit mistakes and make decent throws on first down. That is Saban ball.

Ahh yes. The ol game manager.

 

[Snout Spout]

Yep. AU is not the HU team people conceive them as. They are primarily NH. They will sit at that line till the clock is in single digits most every time.

So we can do that too, no? Hurry to the line, keep them from subbing, and run the clock down.

 

[Biff1]

So we can do that too, no? Hurry to the line, keep them from subbing, and run the clock down.

I guess we could if you like chicken shit football

 

[2Stater]

I think we will see more "game management: play from the QB (whoever that may be) this year. Look for some road grading from the offensive line. I think we will be a run heavy team this year, that will do a much better job of controlling the clock than last year. The OL has the talent to be dominant in the run game. Of course, that will depend on how healthy our OL and RB's can stay.