🏈 Evolution of the Saban offense

QuackQuackBang

Nut deep in the swamp
Member
First time caller, long time listener.

I would like to hear other fans' interpretation of a trend I noticed, well before we adopted the mobile quarterback concept, in the evolution of Coach Saban's offense. When Coach Saban first arrived, our offensive identity was a "pro style" to hog possession of the ball for huge chunks of time. Opponents couldn't score against us not only b/c our defense was brutal but also b/c they never had the ball. Surely that initial concept had something to do with inheriting players that perhaps weren't suited for, or talented enough for, Coach Saban's preferred "style" of play. But, I don't think the "ideal player for the system" explanation completely explains what we have seen evolve over the years. I remember early tenure post-game stat recaps where opponents wouldn't have 1/2 the time of possession that we enjoyed. And, our defense remained fresh on the sideline as our offense marched the length of the field in 15+ play drives that ate up 8+ minutes of clock.

Slowly, the time of possession skew became less significant, and Coach Saban's preaching about a balanced attack with equal numbers of runs/passes became the focus. Later, the offensive focus evolved even more based upon Coach Saban's desire for "big plays" that could turn the moment of the game. Now, after early efforts to slow down the HUNH offenses through press conferences & policy statements, Coach Saban has adopted some aspects of the HUNH to run more plays and put more pressure on opposing defenses.

I mention this because I believe that each of Coach Saban's offensive philosophy changes has incrementally put more pressure on his defenses. Thus, the quick strike, mobile quarterback, big play offense we saw last year leaves the defense to play a disproportionate amount of time. Could this be one of the reasons why our defenses have been lower ranking statistically than in the last few years ? Might it also be the reason (or at least one reason) why we seem to be vulnerable to HUNH offenses that are dependent upon running a high number of plays each game? We score quickly, too, and so our defense is left to fight its own battles. If so, could the weakness of the HUNH opponent be Coach Saban's original domination of time possession strategy that he originally employed?

Thanks. I'm gonna hang up and listen.
 
Maybe he has just accepted the fact that the game has changed and that it is nigh-to-impossible to keep the hurry-spread from scoring points. If he doesn't change his approach and beef up our offensive attack, his defense will fold :what:
 
Maybe he has just accepted the fact that the game has changed and that it is nigh-to-impossible to keep the hurry-spread from scoring points. If he doesn't change his approach and beef up our offensive attack, his defense will fold :what:

Maybe I'm missing the sarcasm, but our defense has adapted pretty well to the HUNH. It was a point of emphasis over the past two or three years, and in general it wasn't effective against us last year. The teams who tended to run that style -- MSU, Auburn, Texas A&M -- didn't hurt us with it. As BlackPawnMartyr points out, cornerback (and to some extent safety) has been the weak point, particularly in pass coverage. I lost track of how many third-and-longs were converted on us last year.

IF (and that's a big "if") those issues are corrected, I think our defense will be statistically outstanding again -- back to the levels we've come to expect. If those issues aren't corrected, though, we're gonna be facing a lot of tough games.
 
Maybe I'm missing the sarcasm, but our defense has adapted pretty well to the HUNH. It was a point of emphasis over the past two or three years, and in general it wasn't effective against us last year. The teams who tended to run that style -- MSU, Auburn, Texas A&M -- didn't hurt us with it. As BlackPawnMartyr points out, cornerback (and to some extent safety) has been the weak point, particularly in pass coverage. I lost track of how many third-and-longs were converted on us last year.

IF (and that's a big "if") those issues are corrected, I think our defense will be statistically outstanding again -- back to the levels we've come to expect. If those issues aren't corrected, though, we're gonna be facing a lot of tough games.

2014 Total Defense Ranking - Bama 12th - http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22
2013 Total Defense Ranking - Bama 1st - http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1042/p1

Average ppg of opponent in 2014 - 18.4
2013 - 13.9
2012 - 10.9
2011 - 8.2

I'm not trying to be argumentative - but these are the facts http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/team/8/index.html
 
It just seemed to me (and I like Trey and think he was totally committed to Bama) he was out of position against every HUNH team we faced. Those schemes put a huge strain on Middle Linebacker. Moseley was much quicker than Trey. The difference was stark
 
At gym in phone so short reply for now. A lot of bad defense was nearly soley on weakness at CB last 2 years. This year should be much improved.
Correct. How many jump ball passes to Kevin White, Mike Evans, Sammy Coats, Treadwell, etc...were lost by our CB's. Pretty much all of them. That has a lot to with the D playing lots of plays and not getting off the field.
 
That has a lot to with the D playing lots of plays and not getting off the field.

Which gets us back to the OP. Is the Achilles of the HUNH the original ball control, smash mouth, 3 yds per play offense that CNS ran in his first couple of years? If the HUNH opponent is sitting on the sidelines, they can't run high numbers of plays. Plus, HUNH seems to be premised upon synchronicity. Surely long stretches on the sidelines would disrupt the flow of that offense even more. The best thing that can happen for a HUNH offense is for its defense to force a 3 and out.
 
2014 Total Defense Ranking - Bama 12th - http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22
2013 Total Defense Ranking - Bama 1st - http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1042/p1

Average ppg of opponent in 2014 - 18.4
2013 - 13.9
2012 - 10.9
2011 - 8.2

I'm not trying to be argumentative - but these are the facts http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/team/8/index.html

I think you're making my point for me. The 2014 defensive unit was 4th in the nation against the run, but 30th in the nation in pass efficiency defense. We were 58th in terms of passing yards allowed per game (226), and 41st in 3rd down conversions allowed (almost 38 percent of them were successful against us). I don't have the time to do a more in-depth statistical analysis, but the obvious inference is we kept people from running on us most of the time, but couldn't keep them from passing on us. Which goes back to cornerbacks and safeties ... for the most part, anyway.
 
Our 2011 team - with one of the greatest defenses of all time - averaged 32:48 ToP. We averaged 31:43 ToP last year. I'm not sure the minute and 5 seconds is what's killing the defense.3

That 1:05, on first blush, would appear to be only 4 to 5 plays. But over the course of a full game w/ the HUNH offense, that could be 10 to even 20 more plays (two to three more offensive possessions).
 
My bad; I thought you simply were being dismissive. Probably should have stated that better.

Here's another try: Given the high volume of plays typically run by a HUNH offense (that cost opponents 10 or so add'l defensive plays per game in comparison to traditional offenses), plus the addition of 1:05 seconds & its 4-5 additional plays, you are looking at 15-20 or so additional plays per game. 15 or so additional plays per game could equate to 3 or more additional possessions for the HUNH offense......
 
My bad; I thought you simply were being dismissive. Probably should have stated that better.

Here's another try: Given the high volume of plays typically run by a HUNH offense (that cost opponents 10 or so add'l defensive plays per game in comparison to traditional offenses), plus the addition of 1:05 seconds & its 4-5 additional plays, you are looking at 15-20 or so additional plays per game. 15 or so additional plays per game could equate to 3 or more additional possessions for the HUNH offense......

The other offense running a HUNH is something we have no control over. Your OP reference how our change in offensive philosophy affects the defense. It seems to have been 1:05 and 4-5 plays based on the difference of last year and the 5-year max. The other 10-15 plays you're speculating on is going to occur regardless of what offense we run.
 
The 1:05 loss in possession is quite possibly more plays than the 4-5 number, but is clearly less than the 10-15 number. 10 would be 6.5 seconds per play, which no one does. It could be 6-7 additional plays per game that our defense is playing, which could mean a little under a regular drive additional per game.

Nevertheless, the hurry up style we ran last year probably had less to do with that than the number of big plays we hit had to do with it. If you hit more big plays, your time of possession decreases. It's a side effect of having a more explosive offense, regardless of how many plays you actually run during the game.
 
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