🏈 DL Depth

[musso]

Anyone else worried about our DL this year? I was naturally concerned about the drop off from losing so much size and experience to the NFL, but after losing mammoth signee Jones I can't help but wonder more. I see only two true NTs in Frazier and Payne. While Payne is legit, no one has praised Frazier. Smith might be a serviceable 3rd string NT, but my guess is he's probably better suited for our DE position behind Tomlinson. It just seems like everything hangs on Payne's health. I'm not used to entering a season thinking one player can determine so much.

 

[BamaFan334]

TerryP had expressed some concern, or shall we say advice about trying to run up the middle.

I personally think we're going to be fine. We might not have certain depth as before, but quite honestly we lost two guys last year, but will be pushing two more into their spots like a pez dispenser. Payne and Tomlinson will be stallwarts, plug in a couple of reserves and we'll be fine. Honestly, it's not as if we had a five deep (that played) in the middle last year.

 

[TUSKtimes]

Anyone else worried about our DL this year? I was naturally concerned about the drop off from losing so much size and experience to the NFL, but after losing mammoth signee Jones I can't help but wonder more. I see only two true NTs in Frazier and Payne. While Payne is legit, no one has praised Frazier. Smith might be a serviceable 3rd string NT, but my guess is he's probably better suited for our DE position behind Tomlinson. It just seems like everything hangs on Payne's health. I'm not used to entering a season thinking one player can determine so much.

Like Payne of last season, some of our freshmen are going to have to develop quickly for a few series. Ball was moved to DL. I don't expect the same LOS domination. Given I've never seen that level for a season, I guess I can't be too disappointed. But coach Saban did say he didn't expect this unit to have the same diversity against both pass and run. I do expect this team will use the speed rush like no other and be better against the spread concepts. Hoping anyway.
This was a nice article on the DL coming out of spring ball:

2016 DL potential

 

[rammerjammer]

I think we will be as talented, just not as experienced.........duh.

Hopefully be mid season we will be looking like this past years D. I would imagine that Williams and Evans will wreak havoc on opposing QB's.

 

[Tidestalker]

It's somewhat concerning considering how important stopping the run is to the overall identity of Saban-ball.

First off - Huge that Jon Allen came back.

Top 4 are no brainers: Allen, Tomlinson, Hand, Payne.

After that, some snaps up for grabs. Jamar King (JUCO) should be in the mix. Frazier as well.

Between those 6 there is a lot of versatility. Pretty much everyone but Frazier can and probably will play 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT.

After that, it will come down to Jonny Dwight, OJ Smith, and freshman Terrell Hall and Quinnen Williams. Should be capable of taking those handful of snaps each game!

And ultimately, you can basically count Tim Williams, Ryan Anderson, and Anfernee Jennings as DE's. It's where they line up most of each game and their responsibilities are never in coverage.

Hard to expect the kind of domination we saw last year, but they should be really good. Especially if healthy.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

Anyone else worried about our DL this year? I was naturally concerned about the drop off from losing so much size and experience to the NFL, but after losing mammoth signee Jones I can't help but wonder more. I see only two true NTs in Frazier and Payne. While Payne is legit, no one has praised Frazier. Smith might be a serviceable 3rd string NT, but my guess is he's probably better suited for our DE position behind Tomlinson. It just seems like everything hangs on Payne's health. I'm not used to entering a season thinking one player can determine so much.

We have fewer D-linemen so we can better defend against the spread.................oke2::bolt:

 

[bradenob]

Depth WILL be huge -pardon the pun. The ucheat game was a case where their inexperienced OL did well against us for a while, but our guys were still fresh in the 4th and dominated at the end when we needed to. That kind of performance will be harder to replicate, as will over all season performance, if depth is not developed. That said, I expect Frazier to step up, and I expect ,Jamar King to become another Pettway. Raekwon has apparently turned some head so hopefully he contributes, but it would have been nice if the Hulk had qualified.

 

[TerryP]

TerryP had expressed some concern, or shall we say advice about trying to run up the middle.

If we're calling it advice, I'm suggesting LSU, UArk, et al, need to run up the middle on Bama. As of right now, it's the weak spot on the defense.

It's not a matter of bodies (aside from two still waiting to qualify) it's a matter of experience and some of these guys needing to elevate their game a level or two.

 

[musso]

If we're calling it advice, I'm suggesting LSU, UArk, et al, need to run up the middle on Bama. As of right now, it's the weak spot on the defense.

It's not a matter of bodies (aside from two still waiting to qualify) it's a matter of experience and some of these guys needing to elevate their game a level or two.

Well we have bodies, but we seem heavy at the DE spot, or DT with 4 down linemen. I just don't see many imposing options to place over center. Maybe Frazier can up his game because I only see him having the girth to join Payne at NT.

 

[TUSKtimes]

We have fewer D-linemen so we can better defend against the spread.................oke2::bolt:

I wonder about the downsizing on the D-line along with our OLB for the spread-scourge. Jeremy Pruitt may be more the answer than who we put on the field. Pruitt made a great adjustment at halftime against the barn in the natty. He simplified everything. Told the defense stay in your lanes and gaps. Don't chase. They didn't and since that 1st half a Pruitt lead defense has only allowed the barn 3 TDs in their 3 contest. Running the spread offense has simple reads and concepts, maybe a simple approach on D is a more effective way of fighting fire with fire?

 

[TerryP]

Maybe Frazier can up his game because I only see him having the girth to join Payne at NT.

Tomlinson ... Payne has about five lbs on him.

 

[musso]

Hmm I've always seen Tomlinson's ideal weight at <300 lbs and Payne and Frazier well north of 300.

 

[Tidestalker]

Hmm I've always seen Tomlinson's ideal weight at <300 lbs and Payne and Frazier well north of 300.

I kind of agree.

I feel like Bama is in the 4-3 more anyway... So the amount of plays they line up in 3-4, I see it with Payne and Frazier.

But in the 4-3 the rotation of Allen, Tomlinson, Payne, and Hand should be consistent.

 

[BamaFan334]

If we're calling it advice, I'm suggesting LSU, UArk, et al, need to run up the middle on Bama. As of right now, it's the weak spot on the defense.

It's not a matter of bodies (aside from two still waiting to qualify) it's a matter of experience and some of these guys needing to elevate their game a level or two.

Suggestion is the better word. I like that.

 

[TerryP]

Hmm I've always seen Tomlinson's ideal weight at <300 lbs and Payne and Frazier well north of 300.

Tomlinson was around 310 lbs coming out of spring camp. Payne hovering between 315-320 lbs.

But in the 4-3 the rotation of Allen, Tomlinson, Payne, and Hand should be consistent.

The thing is we don't see a 4-3: we do see a four man front. I can see that group in for a third and short, but on any other down I'm seeing Allen, Payne (NT), and Tomlinson with someone like Anderson filling that fourth spot on the line.

We've talked about how much this team plays in the nickel package. While that looks a lot like a 4-3 at times, that's mostly due to where the STAR is lining up. In this picture, it would be Tomlinson lining up inside, as a DT basically, playing the 1 technique.

It's my opinion they are going to have to have a third guy "show up" this fall to give the defense a three man rotation in the middle. If not, one injury could mean a lot of problems.

 

[18Champs]

Five questions for Alabama's defensive line in advance of fall camp.

5 .] Can Josh Frazier provide some snaps?

With Jarran Reed and A'Shawn Robinson no longer around, the path has been cleared for Frazier to contend for playing time behind Alabama's projected starters. Other than Daron Payne, there aren't many true nose tackle types on the roster, so the 6-foot-4, 315-pound Frazier should be in the mix from a depth standpoint. In hindsight, a redshirt year in 2014 might have been best for the Arkansas native, who has appeared in 12 games the last two seasons. Now at the midway point of his eligibility, it's time for Frazier -- a top 40 national prospect coming out of high school -- to make his case for a role that consists of more than mop-up time snaps.

4.] Who will benefit the most from double teams?

Over the last year, I've highlighted via video some of Jonathan Allen's devastating work against offensive guards in one-on-one matchups. If we know it, you best believe opposing offensive coordinators are well aware of what Allen is capable of doing in those situations. So, after benefiting from them himself the last few seasons, Allen can expect to see considerably more doubles in 2016. With that expectation in mind, Da'Shawn Hand and Dalvin Tomlinson are good bets to see their quarterback pressure numbers increase this season -- with an emphasis on Hand, who had three sacks in limited playing time a season ago. Considering that he'll be on the field with Allen in some nickel situations, I'll even include Payne in that group.

3.] How quickly will the newcomers get up to speed?

Even with Kendall Jones coming up short of qualifying standards, still a promising ground of newcomers in end Quinnen Williams, tackle Raekwon Davis and junior college transfer end Jamar King. With depth a bit of a question mark beyond Alabama's top four linemen, the incoming trio represents the first major challenge for new defensive line coach Karl Dunbar. It would be nice if Williams and Davis were allowed to come along at a reasonable pace, but circumstances might dictate that their development be expedited. And while King will serve as the elder statesman of not only the newcomers, but the position in general, he hasn't had the benefit of a run through spring drills or summer workouts in Tuscaloosa. UA knows what it has in Allen, Hand, Payne and Tomlinson. The emphasis in camp will be on finding out what the new guys can offer.

2.] Who wins the end job opposite Allen: Tomlinson or Hand?

Due in large part to the big plays he's made as a situational performer the last two seasons, Hand is a popular pick among some fans and media. I'd be cautious about placing flash ahead of down-in and down-out dependability, however. Not that Hand won't prove capable of providing more than pass rush, but we know Tomlinson can get it done on first down against big boy offenses. And it's not like Tomlinson hasn't been involved in Alabama's pass rush packages in the past. We saw him last year in the nickel and dime packages. Looking ahead to this season, both players are going to be counted on to provide starter-like snaps and there's a good chance we'll see them on the field together at times. In other words, Alabama really has three starting defensive ends instead of two.

1.] Can Payne stay healthy?

Is it farfetched to think Payne might be the most important lineman of the bunch? I don't think so. No one is questioning that Allen is the star of the group heading into the season. But in terms of how much an injury would negatively impact the Alabama defense, Payne's value is greater than any other guy up front. Why? First and foremost, Payne is the anchor UA has to have against offenses that rely on getting the job done on the ground. Not only that, he's capable of providing some interior pass rush while staying on the field in Alabama's "big nickel" look. Basically, the Crimson Tide had three players who fit that mold in 2015. It heads into 2016 with just one: Payne.

Alabama football Jonathan Allen Da'Shawn Hand Daron Payne Dalvin Tomlinson Karl Dunbar

 

[Tidestalker]

Tomlinson was around 310 lbs coming out of spring camp. Payne hovering between 315-320 lbs.


The thing is we don't see a 4-3: we do see a four man front. I can see that group in for a third and short, but on any other down I'm seeing Allen, Payne (NT), and Tomlinson with someone like Anderson filling that fourth spot on the line.

We've talked about how much this team plays in the nickel package. While that looks a lot like a 4-3 at times, that's mostly due to where the STAR is lining up. In this picture, it would be Tomlinson lining up inside, as a DT basically, playing the 1 technique.

It's my opinion they are going to have to have a third guy "show up" this fall to give the defense a three man rotation in the middle. If not, one injury could mean a lot of problems.

You're right. What a really mean is a 4 man front.

But do you really think Tomlinson is going to play over Hand in passing downs? I think Hand will be almost impossible to take off the field, just like Allen has become.

It's going to be Allen, Hand, Williams, and Anderson when they want a pass rush. Payne is athletic enough to rush the passer as well, but is Tomlinson going to be asked to do that? I could see him getting a few snaps but realistically he's best fitted as a 3-4 DE run stopper.

 

[musso]

It's my opinion they are going to have to have a third guy "show up" this fall to give the defense a three man rotation in the middle. If not, one injury could mean a lot of problems.

From my original post ...

It just seems like everything hangs on Payne's health. I'm not used to entering a season thinking one player can determine so much.

This is essentially my concern too. Behind Tomlinson, Payne, Allen, and Hand, a lot depends on recruiting evaluations and development over one or two seasons as reserves. Not to mention, I am including two linemen on my depth chart who haven't even spent all their time on defense: Ball and Dwight. So while my concerns are across the board at DL, I particularly worry about NT even though we may only play 3 games in regular 3/4 set. We have goal-line and short-yardage situtaions too where extra size is needed at the LOS. Losing signee Jones could prove ... well ... huge.

 

[musso]

Another thing, I keep looking at the roster, and I don't see a less disposable player than Payne right now. You could make a case for Scarborough. Maybe LB Foster too. But I'd still say Payne.

 

[musso]

It seems odd that under Saban we are entering a season with such a questionable depth at RB and DL. :think: