| FTBL Coach Saban post game comments to Eli and Snake

[CrimsonPirate]

Actually, cleaning the roster would make it a bit difficult to play a game...wouldn't it? :shock:

 

[jdpas29]

Saban is a fine coach and is doing a good job with what he's got.

he is instilling discipline in the players in more than one way and that may have cost us a win today, but you know it's important to make the players realize what their responsibilities are. no more ice cream cones.

the biggest problem i see on the offense is not JPW although he is rather erratic and throws away a lot of balls... the biggest problem is the inability to run the ball with any consistency or purpose for lack of better word. it seems very similar to the CMS offense where the running game is kind of a token and it's all about the pass. maybe they know it's not possible to run worth a crap with the line we have... i'm not a coach. but i know that from 30 years of watching football, if you can't run any better than Alabama has over the last 5 or 6 games, you aren't going to win many games in the SEC.

it will get better. it's good to know that some of our starters on offense will be back for the barn game.

yall cheer up. all in all it was an essentially meaningless game anyway.

 

[Tideboy]

the biggest problem i see on the offense is not JPW although he is rather erratic and throws away a lot of balls... the biggest problem is the inability to run the ball with any consistency or purpose for lack of better word. it seems very similar to the CMS offense where the running game is kind of a token and it's all about the pass. maybe they know it's not possible to run worth a crap with the line we have... i'm not a coach. but i know that from 30 years of watching football, if you can't run any better than Alabama has over the last 5 or 6 games, you aren't going to win many games in the SEC.

That's true. When I think of the last dominant O-line (as a group) that we had, I think of names like Wesley Britt, Evan Mathis, Alonzo Ephraim, Justin Smiley...... Until we can recruit or evolve some studds like that on the OL, our running game is going to play second fiddle to the pass.

 

[bear facts]

Big_Fan, another solid post that I'm sure will receive some amens but when will the day come that Shula's name is not mentioned? :wink:

Is he the "debil" or something?

I can't answer that exactly. Probably no earlier than Saban's 3rd season - realistically. Folks still talk about DuBose and Fran...and even Price...and their players are no longer a part of this program.

If we want to say that Miles is winning with Saban's players, why then is it wrong to say that Saban is losing with Shula's? A tough pill to swallow - I like Mike...but true none the less. His recruiting was poor and the work ethic he instilled among his players poorer. We are reaping the "benefits" of it today. Does anyone honestly believe that Saban could undo 4 years of voluntary workouts in a single off season? We have some of the same stamina problems that plagued Shulas teams only they are manifesting themselves later in the season since there has been some improvement...but the root cause is the same thing.

I am on a diet trying to lose the 150 pounds of weight I have gained over the past 10 years (mainly the last 7). I started it in August and have lost 50 pounds. I am eating sensibly and working out hard, but I cannot realistically expect to lose it all and get back into shape in 6-8 months...I have a 12-18 month project...and I am not training to be a world class athlete like our players are. It takes time...the "Shula effect" as someone called it, will take longer to overcome...we can only sign 25 per class. When Saban's 2008 signees are Juniors, we should be in much better shape. That will be his 4th season. I guarantee you that we will be better in Saban's 4th year than we were in 2006.

Well, I'm sick and tired of people putting all of the onus on Shula. I, too, am not pleased with some of the things that went on under Shula's tenure, but at the same time he did coach here with a pretty big disadvantage--NCAA sanctions.

I'm not wanting to dig up another dead horse, but to simply put all the blame on Shula is a very narrow-minded view. There's a variety of factors besides Shula that have contributed to where this team now lies.

You can't convince me that ULM and Mississippi State, overall, have more athletic teams than what Alabama has.

Everyone is saying you can't win if you don't have talent. Well that may be true when you face a championship caliber team, but ULM and MSU are not more talented than Bama, so that excuse does not apply these last two weeks.

You want to find a scapegoat, then look at the real sources of the problem these past three weeks.

There's something just as important to winning as talent, and that is character and responsibility to the team. As far as I'm concerned every player who has been suspended or disciplined this season has let this team down, placing their own selfish reasons and desires ahead of Alabama football. Now tell me, are these really team players? If they had truly been, they would not have found themselves facing suspensions and/or disciplinary action.

As far as I'm concerned, I wish none of them would be reinstated or allowed to play in the Auburn game.

 

[bamachampion]

"I apologize to a lot of people. This isn't the way it's supposed to be and this is not how it's going to be in the future"

He also threw in a bit about this being the University of Alabama and a game like this being an embarassment to our tradition.

He also said he saw this coming. :shock:

Well, I hope two of the people to which he extends his apology are Paul W. "Bear" Bryant and Gene Stallings.

For the love of God...the last three losses are unacceptable. Period.

 

[bamachampion]

Some people close to the program who have intimate knowledge will tell you that there were multiple reasons that CMS was fired.

People can shout "dont blame Shula for this one" all they want to, but then some people believe in the tooth fairy.

Folks, when Saban said that he saw this one coming, there is a reason for it...and it was not coaches or preparation...it was the way the players practiced and the attitudes they have. As another poster said, the program needs an enema...Saban is giving it one but the results are not instant...right now the solution is being administered. It will take a couple of seasons to flush the system...and then we will be very good.

LSU was in a similar situation when he got there. They had some talented players, but there were some problems as well. They lost to UAB...a team that was not as good in 2000 as La. Monroe is today.

Is there any excuse for losing to ULM? No, not really...but it happened. You guys know that I am not one to pull any punches when it comes to questioning Saban...but I am not going to question him on w's and l's. We lost our best offensive players year before last, and our best defensive players over the past two years. We have no depth and little talent. S&C takes time to improve...think back to Fran's first season and the strength difference in the second season...it takes time to get bigger, stronger, and faster...and it takes time to get top recruits in. We will have a top 5 recruiting class this year and next year. Next year we will be a top 20 team. Year after next a top 10.

Shula held the keys to the program for 4 years, but he did not drive it. We have less raw talent on the field now than we had when Shula took over in 2003, even if we have higher numbers. It takes time.

Think back to 2005.

On defense we had:

LE 92 W. Gilberry
RT 99 Jeremy Clark
RE 47 Mark Anderson
35 DeMeco Ryans
MLB 8 Freddie Roach
WLB 42 Juwan Simpson
NB 3 Jeffrey Dukes
LCB 1 Ramzee Robinson
FS 41 Roman Harper
SS 26 Charlie Peprah
RCB 9 Anthony Madison

Half of those guys are playing in the league right now. Almost all of them graduated over the previous 2 seasons, and most of Shula's recruits that replaced them could not start for any team in the SEC.

On offense we had:

QB 12 Brodie Croyle
FB 33 Le'Ron McClain
RB 34 Kenneth Darby
WR 81 Keith Brown
WR 11 Matt Caddell
TE 83 Travis McCall
LT 72 Chris Capps
LG 63 Mark Sanders
C 59 A. Caldwell
RG 61 B.J. Stabler
RT 58 Kyle Tatum

Brodie was lightyears ahead of JPW in many respects. Le'Ron and KD were very good. Even the OL were better across the board than what we started today...some of those guys had retained some of the S&C ethic from Ben Pollard.

We could pull McLain and put in Castille at FB. Does anyone think JJ or Huber are better than either of those guys?

Saban is trying to make chicken salad out of something not chicken...particularly as it pertains to his system. It will take time.

A player from 1992 told me before the season began that we did not have a single player on defense and only 1 or 2 on offense that would have made the 2 deep in 1992. That speaks volumes. Saban is the right man for the job, but IT TAKES TIME.

Amen!

Exactly my thoughts about our team's attitude.

It's all part of the Shula Effect©.

Yeah...what they said. :!:

 

[Guest]

Well, I'm sick and tired of people putting all of the onus on Shula. I, too, am not pleased with some of the things that went on under Shula's tenure, but at the same time he did coach here with a pretty big disadvantage--NCAA sanctions.

I'm not wanting to dig up another dead horse, but to simply put all the blame on Shula is a very narrow-minded view. There's a variety of factors besides Shula that have contributed to where this team now lies.

You can't convince me that ULM and Mississippi State, overall, have more athletic teams than what Alabama has.

Everyone is saying you can't win if you don't have talent. Well that may be true when you face a championship caliber team, but ULM and MSU are not more talented than Bama, so that excuse does not apply these last two weeks.

You want to find a scapegoat, then look at the real sources of the problem these past three weeks.

There's something just as important to winning as talent, and that is character and responsibility to the team. As far as I'm concerned every player who has been suspended or disciplined this season has let this team down, placing their own selfish reasons and desires ahead of Alabama football. Now tell me, are these really team players? If they had truly been, they would not have found themselves facing suspensions and/or disciplinary action.

As far as I'm concerned, I wish none of them would be reinstated or allowed to play in the Auburn game.

All of the onus does not go on Shula...quite frankly, it can be traced back to Sorensen and Bockrath. Shula should never have been hired, but given the circumstances he was probably the best choice. The fallout after a couple of losing seasons under Croom would probably have added to the perception of racism in Alabama.

A good litmus test is to ask the question "where would we be if?" and try to answer it honestly. If we had hired Frank Beamer in 1997? Gary Pinkel in 2001 (my personal choice when Fran was hired)? Urban Meyer instead of Mike Price?

Those scenarios make for interesting discussion, but how about this...what if we had been able to hire Saban in 2003, instead of Price? Do you think we would (in 2007) have a team lacking mental toughness, core strength, and overall talent? Sure Shula took over during a tough time and we were strapped by probation, but people close to the program will tell you that year after year our recruiting went like this: Shula targets big time athlete (ala-Tebow), lets big time athlete string us along without closing the deal, late in the game big time athlete commits to another team, Shula scrambles to find someone to give a scholarship to...I.E. McElroy. Have you considered that Smelley was better and wanted to go the Bama? One of the first things Saban did in recruiting was to drop the QB Shula was after and take a Miami commit from them. Anyone who doubts Saban's talent evaluating ability needs to look at LSU over the past few years. Shula was a poor recruiter...his best class on paper was the one following the Cotton Bowl win, and we finished 6th in the SEC, and the majority of the signees have not contributed.

MSU has a more physically developed team than we do...maybe not more talent on paper, but they were not "eating ice cream cones" over the past few seasons. They have had to work and since they hired this man:

http://www.mstateathletics.com/View...&DB_OEM_ID=16800&ATCLID=1100852&Q_SEASON=2007

They have improved even more. Shula fired him because he did not agree with his philosophy on S&C...understand...this single episode is the core reason I have little respect for what Shula did. Ben Pollard is the best S&C coach in America today and was about the only holdover from xCMP and xCDF that Shula fired (other than Price's sons). That firing alone should tell you a bit about Shula's decision making. People defend his loyalty to his assistants in order to justify keeping Connelly around, but he fired the best S&C coach in the business! Brilliant!

MSU had more talent than Tulane, UAB, and Maine when Croom was hired, it just took Croom a few years to get his players to the point where they expected to win. Their loss today was a matter of being physically outmatched on the line, not a mental issue. Our loss was the convergence of our mentality and our lowered talent level. Combined with bad habits in the S&C program and you get a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't hate Shula and I am not calling him an id10t or stupid or anything like that. He is catholic, but he is not infallible ex cathedra. He saw us through a dark time and things could have been worse, but not by a whole lot. I had Shula blinders on for a while, but I know too much to ignore what went on under his watch, and deny the consequences we are now facing because of it.

 

[bear facts]

Well, I'm sick and tired of people putting all of the onus on Shula. I, too, am not pleased with some of the things that went on under Shula's tenure, but at the same time he did coach here with a pretty big disadvantage--NCAA sanctions.

I'm not wanting to dig up another dead horse, but to simply put all the blame on Shula is a very narrow-minded view. There's a variety of factors besides Shula that have contributed to where this team now lies.

You can't convince me that ULM and Mississippi State, overall, have more athletic teams than what Alabama has.

Everyone is saying you can't win if you don't have talent. Well that may be true when you face a championship caliber team, but ULM and MSU are not more talented than Bama, so that excuse does not apply these last two weeks.

You want to find a scapegoat, then look at the real sources of the problem these past three weeks.

There's something just as important to winning as talent, and that is character and responsibility to the team. As far as I'm concerned every player who has been suspended or disciplined this season has let this team down, placing their own selfish reasons and desires ahead of Alabama football. Now tell me, are these really team players? If they had truly been, they would not have found themselves facing suspensions and/or disciplinary action.

As far as I'm concerned, I wish none of them would be reinstated or allowed to play in the Auburn game.

All of the onus does not go on Shula...quite frankly, it can be traced back to Sorensen and Bockrath. Shula should never have been hired, but given the circumstances he was probably the best choice. The fallout after a couple of losing seasons under Croom would probably have added to the perception of racism in Alabama.

A good litmus test is to ask the question "where would we be if?" and try to answer it honestly. If we had hired Frank Beamer in 1997? Gary Pinkel in 2001 (my personal choice when Fran was hired)? Urban Meyer instead of Mike Price?

Those scenarios make for interesting discussion, but how about this...what if we had been able to hire Saban in 2003, instead of Price? Do you think we would (in 2007) have a team lacking mental toughness, core strength, and overall talent? Sure Shula took over during a tough time and we were strapped by probation, but people close to the program will tell you that year after year our recruiting went like this: Shula targets big time athlete (ala-Tebow), lets big time athlete string us along without closing the deal, late in the game big time athlete commits to another team, Shula scrambles to find someone to give a scholarship to...I.E. McElroy. Have you considered that Smelley was better and wanted to go the Bama? One of the first things Saban did in recruiting was to drop the QB Shula was after and take a Miami commit from them. Anyone who doubts Saban's talent evaluating ability needs to look at LSU over the past few years. Shula was a poor recruiter...his best class on paper was the one following the Cotton Bowl win, and we finished 6th in the SEC, and the majority of the signees have not contributed.

MSU has a more physically developed team than we do...maybe not more talent on paper, but they were not "eating ice cream cones" over the past few seasons. They have had to work and since they hired this man:

http://www.mstateathletics.com/View...&DB_OEM_ID=16800&ATCLID=1100852&Q_SEASON=2007

They have improved even more. Shula fired him because he did not agree with his philosophy on S&C...understand...this single episode is the core reason I have little respect for what Shula did. Ben Pollard is the best S&C coach in America today and was about the only holdover from xCMP and xCDF that Shula fired (other than Price's sons). That firing alone should tell you a bit about Shula's decision making. People defend his loyalty to his assistants in order to justify keeping Connelly around, but he fired the best S&C coach in the business! Brilliant!

MSU had more talent than Tulane, UAB, and Maine when Croom was hired, it just took Croom a few years to get his players to the point where they expected to win. Their loss today was a matter of being physically outmatched on the line, not a mental issue. Our loss was the convergence of our mentality and our lowered talent level. Combined with bad habits in the S&C program and you get a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't hate Shula and I am not calling him an id10t or stupid or anything like that. He is catholic, but he is not infallible ex cathedra. He saw us through a dark time and things could have been worse, but not by a whole lot. I had Shula blinders on for a while, but I know too much to ignore what went on under his watch, and deny the consequences we are now facing because of it.

Big_Fan, I agree in general with most of what you have said, but I stand firm on the fact that this Bama team needs to shoulder much of the responsibility for the last two losses, not the coaches, not the previous regime.

Bama has enough talent on this team that they should have beaten both MSU and ULM by three touchdowns each. Go back and watch the replays and count the amount of times that execution, turnovers, and mental mistakes have prevented Bama from scoring or making big plays on offense.

As far as the OL being outmanned, they've got a piece-meal group out there right now, on a team which did not have the depth to afford to lose starters because of suspensions. In Coach Saban's post game comments today, even though he took the blame for today's play, he also mentioned the distractions and how players need to take care of their responsibilities.

Like I said before, there have been some players this season who have not put the team first.

 

[Guest]

Like I said before, there have been some players this season who have not put the team first.

I think it speaks volumes that one of our team "leaders" was suspended for a half at his very last game @ Bryant-Denny. Sorry guys, but that tells me something. :?

 

[moreno_iv]

Like I said before, there have been some players this season who have not put the team first.

I think it speaks volumes that one of our team "leaders" was suspended for a half at his very last game @ Bryant-Denny. Sorry guys, but that tells me something. :?

I have to agree with that. The more I see this team play and you see what they do off and on the field, the more I question SOME of the players heart and ethic. It damn sure ain't where it ought to be.

I had this same feeling last year watching that team. I guess some things are just not easy to change.

 

[Guest]

Big_Fan, I agree in general with most of what you have said, but I stand firm on the fact that this Bama team needs to shoulder much of the responsibility for the last two losses, not the coaches, not the previous regime.

I agree, however I must note that this team is made up of players who were recruited, developed, and coached by the previous regime for the past four seasons.

Bama has enough talent on this team that they should have beaten both MSU and ULM by three touchdowns each. Go back and watch the replays and count the amount of times that execution, turnovers, and mental mistakes have prevented Bama from scoring or making big plays on offense.

Again, no argument...however when you get into the "why," it gets a bit more convoluted. Has Saban's teams had a history of folding down the stretch? Did Shula's?

As far as the OL being outmanned, they've got a piece-meal group out there right now, on a team which did not have the depth to afford to lose starters because of suspensions. In Coach Saban's post game comments today, even though he took the blame for today's play, he also mentioned the distractions and how players need to take care of their responsibilities.

Think about it though...I have read some comments that said something like "we have enough talent that our third string coached by graduate assistants should beat ULM." If that is true (or even close to being true) then why did we lose? I think the answer lies with the mentality of our players. It has been said many times by people wiser than me that a football team will reflect the mentality of the coaching staff...our team reflects a mentality, and it is not a reflection of the mentality of our current coaching staff. It is eerily reminiscent of a coaching staff that did not instill discipline and was happy with moral victories and being "this close."

Like I said before, there have been some players this season who have not put the team first.

I agree with you completely and I am not afraid to ask "who recruited and developed those players?"

The answer is not Saban and his staff. You can mark my words, if we don't run him off, Saban will have us in the SECCG by 2009, and competing for a NC in 2010. I think you would agree with me on that. To finish our debate on the topic, answer this question: "what will the most significant difference be in our team then v/s now?" Therein lies the reason that many of us are still critical of Shula's regime and continue to reference it in the face of this team's failure.