🏈 Bo Davis Video

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

Does lying to Saban and complaince count as two?

Does to me

 

[TerryP]

They shouldn't. I'm way too gun shy about this stuff after 2000. Didn't he have 2 different instances for non-compliance while here?

I recall the impermissible contact as the only one but my memory on this is a little vague.

It wasn't an "accidental bump" like we've seen with other situations. This was a booster who'd set up a meeting with not one, but four prospects. In my view that's a conscious decision to skirt the rules—not a good thing in any world.

Lying to Saban, UA compliance, and the NCAA? I don't know at what point I'd say "all's forgiven." I'd say being the key there.

One hell of a recruiter, that's for sure.

 

[Brandon Van de Graaff]

If Saban wants him back, and he made indications that he did when Roach was hired, then he should be hired back (regardless of any objections from compliance at this point).

 

[The Dude]

If CNS (who would have more of a first hand experience of what happened) allowed it, I would few comfortable with that.
It's a passionate sport and we make mistakes. If it was a mistake and lesson learned, I'd support a pardon. If it's a consistent moral character issue that could be repeated, then no. I wouldn't risk our reputation.
He's a great recruiter and a great DL coach, but there are too many choices of the heart that I don't know about to make that call. I'll trust CNS and the higher ups to do that. I believe they are pretty good at determining the moral character of an individual (most times cause we all get fooled every now and then.)

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

If Saban wants him back, and he made indications that he did when Roach was hired, then he should be hired back (regardless of any objections from compliance at this point).

Fair enough.

I like the move to get him back at DL as long as Roach goes to ILB coach.

Then the former ILB coach can be the recruiting coordinator since he is so good at recruiting.

 

[BamaFan334]

I recall the impermissible contact as the only one but my memory on this is a little vague.

It wasn't an "accidental bump" like we've seen with other situations. This was a booster who'd set up a meeting with not one, but four prospects. In my view that's a conscious decision to skirt the rules—not a good thing in any world.

Lying to Saban, UA compliance, and the NCAA? I don't know at what point I'd say "all's forgiven." I'd say being the key there.

One hell of a recruiter, that's for sure.

Has Saban never lied or hidden things from Alabama, the SEC, or NCAA? If you say no to that, you're not being true to yourself. Everybody in sports does it. It's not an admirable trait, no doubt, but in life it happens. I don't know everything about Bo Davis, much about him personally, or his relationship with Saban, but I think we can all agree he has positively impacted the lives of many people being a coach. Sometimes a prolonged break is good enough to wipe a slate clean. Starting over from the bottom isn't a bad option and allowing him to grow. Alabama, school or sports, isn't free of scandal, lies, or coverups.

 

[TerryP]

Has Saban never lied or hidden things from Alabama, the SEC, or NCAA? If you say no to that, you're not being true to yourself.

Give me an example where Saban has dealt with the school, the SEC, or the NCAA and lied about one of the basic tenants of NCAA rules in regards to recruiting. Give me a rumor where he's done so.

There's a good chance Bo would have kept his job at Bama if he'd told the truth: the program avoided sanctions by firing Bo.

Why should compliance allow him back?

Sometimes a prolonged break is good enough to wipe a slate clean.

In some cases it has been. See Lance Thompson (a re-hire I certainly disagreed with Saban making.) However, Lance's situation is different. Saban doesn't have an issue with "whore dogs."

 

[BamaFan334]

Give me an example where Saban has dealt with the school, the SEC, or the NCAA and lied about one of the basic tenants of NCAA rules in regards to recruiting. Give me a rumor where he's done so.

There's a good chance Bo would have kept his job at Bama if he'd told the truth: the program avoided sanctions by firing Bo.


In some cases it has been. See Lance Thompson (a re-hire I certainly disagreed with Saban making.) However, Lance's situation is different. Saban doesn't have an issue with "whore dogs."

It's all in the past now and nothing we can get in trouble for with NIL, but the whole Tom Albetar thing. Saban knew first hand athletes were selling him their jerseys, rings, awards etc. I can't speak to him actually lying because I've never been in the room for a conversation between him and any of the others, but he knows of EVERYTHING that goes on within his program and if he ever has said he did not have knowledge or that something did not happen he wasn't being truthful. I have no doubt he has been asked atleast once about that situation. If he had told the truth I have no doubt we would have gotten in big trouble over it, but nonetheless it went away and we never did see any punishment.

As far as recruiting, I've heard some stories, but that is third hand, so I cannot say that and speak to the facts of it. Recruiting visits that came with benefits we'll say.

 

[1CrimsonTider]

It's all in the past now and nothing we can get in trouble for with NIL, but the whole Tom Albetar thing. Saban knew first hand athletes were selling him their jerseys, rings, awards etc. I can't speak to him actually lying because I've never been in the room for a conversation between him and any of the others, but he knows of EVERYTHING that goes on within his program and if he ever has said he did not have knowledge or that something did not happen he wasn't being truthful. I have no doubt he has been asked atleast once about that situation. If he had told the truth I have no doubt we would have gotten in big trouble over it, but nonetheless it went away and we never did see any punishment.

As far as recruiting, I've heard some stories, but that is third hand, so I cannot say that and speak to the facts of it. Recruiting visits that came with benefits we'll say.

Sports by Brooks fan, right?

 

[mando]

It's all in the past now and nothing we can get in trouble for with NIL, but the whole Tom Albetar thing. Saban knew first hand athletes were selling him their jerseys, rings, awards etc. I can't speak to him actually lying because I've never been in the room for a conversation between him and any of the others, but he knows of EVERYTHING that goes on within his program and if he ever has said he did not have knowledge or that something did not happen he wasn't being truthful. I have no doubt he has been asked atleast once about that situation. If he had told the truth I have no doubt we would have gotten in big trouble over it, but nonetheless it went away and we never did see any punishment.

As far as recruiting, I've heard some stories, but that is third hand, so I cannot say that and speak to the facts of it. Recruiting visits that came with benefits we'll say.

So all speculative...?

 

[BamaFan334]

So all speculative...?

By the measure you're assuming, all is speculative outside of Saban himself. I have pretty good knowledge of both situations from folks involved in them. So while I can speak from their conversations with me 9which I stated third hand, but probably more second hand), no one outside of Saban can 100% certain speak to this, but that goes with anything in the this world. I stand behind my comments that somewhere along the line Saban has not been 100% truthful with Alabama, the SEC, and the NCAA. That being said, no coach or athletic department has.

 

[1CrimsonTider]

It's all in the past now and nothing we can get in trouble for with NIL, but the whole Tom Albetar thing.

So all speculative...?

Who do you choose to believe here?

UA's compliance contacted Tom three times asking him to quit.
The school investigated the situation and found no evidence of extra benefits: just Tom using name and likeness in his store.
Those results were forwarded to the SEC and with no evidence found it wasn't forwarded to the NCAA.

Did it look bad? Damn straight.

The choice is yours. Believe what that random Internet site posted and the speculation that followed or believe what compliance found when investigated.

 

[BamaFan334]

Who do you choose to believe here?

UA's compliance contacted Tom three times asking him to quit.
The school investigated the situation and found no evidence of extra benefits: just Tom using name and likeness in his store.
Those results were forwarded to the SEC and with no evidence found it wasn't forwarded to the NCAA.

Did it look bad? Damn straight.

The choice is yours. Believe what that random Internet site posted and the speculation that followed or believe what compliance found when investigated.

Keep your Crimson colored glasses on all you want, but are you that foolish to think all of those autographs in his store were either fake or signed for free? You think all of that gameday worn stuff was not paid for that he happily displays in his store? Go ask any of those players and they will tell you. I've done my research and know, and that's why I would never buy from him. He has some pretty amazing items that cannot be found, but he is a snake. Go ahead and dare I say check out the college memorabilia market and see what you find.

I'm not trying to bury anybody here, just not going to act like Alabama didn't know what the hell was going on here and play stupid all while looking stupid. Do I care? No. I don't like players being paid like a contract by the school or NCAA, but I don't mind them making some money off their name and achievements.

You think Bo Davis was the only impermissible benefit that has traded hands under Saban's watch?

 

[mando]

Keep your Crimson colored glasses on all you want, but are you that foolish to think all of those autographs in his store were either fake or signed for free? You think all of that gameday worn stuff was not paid for that he happily displays in his store? Go ask any of those players and they will tell you. I've done my research and know, and that's why I would never buy from him. He has some pretty amazing items that cannot be found, but he is a snake. Go ahead and dare I say check out the college memorabilia market and see what you find.

I'm not trying to bury anybody here, just not going to act like Alabama didn't know what the hell was going on here and play stupid all while looking stupid. Do I care? No. I don't like players being paid like a contract by the school or NCAA, but I don't mind them making some money off their name and achievements.

You think Bo Davis was the only impermissible benefit that has traded hands under Saban's watch?

I know you agree Saban is a really smart person and great coach, since we are speculating, why would he allow something he knows could derail his program to continue if indeed it was proveable and he knew as you imply. That part does not add up. Could he have been suspicious and coached the players to avoid this person sure.... But to know and not take action? Would not be smart.

 

[BamaFan334]

I know you agree Saban is a really smart person and great coach, since we are speculating, why would he allow something he knows could derail his program to continue if indeed it was proveable and he knew as you imply. That part does not add up. Could he have been suspicious and coached the players to avoid this person sure.... But to know and not take action? Would not be smart.

He ain't perfect. No one is. It's only provable if people talk to the authorities investigating. Cash is hard to trace and personal checks weren't being written and deposited. The college memorabilia market is HUGE. It's like black market because it's taboo and can get people in trouble. A lot of that is loosening up with NIL, but it happens.

Richt knew about AJ Green and Gurley. Those two got busted because a guy talked from the other side, not within the program.

 

[TerryP]

You think Bo Davis was the only impermissible benefit that has traded hands under Saban's watch?

Impermissible contact arranged by a booster for four players/recruits: then lied about the whole thing on three separate occasions and caught.

He ain't perfect. No one is. It's only provable if people talk to the authorities investigating.

No one is suggesting perfect. The issue I see happening within this thread are the assertions that,

1) the players lied to Saban, UA compliance, and in turn the SEC.
2) Saban lied to UA compliance, Coach Moore, and in turn the SEC.
3) Moore lied to the SEC when the investigations were completed.

All exist within the realm of possibility. Bo Davis was proven to have lied to Saban, UA, and the NCAA.

No one denied ol' Tom was selling those items. No one was able to prove the players received compensation for their autographs.

@mando is right here. We're discussing what was proven versus what was speculated.

I guess this comes back to whether or not you trust the compliance office (who, coincidentally, laid the hammer down on books being given away.)

 

[BamaFan334]

@mando is right here. We're discussing what was proven versus what was speculated.

I guess this comes back to whether or not you trust the compliance office (who, coincidentally, laid the hammer down on books being given away.)

No no no, I never said proven, I simply asked if we think Saban has always been 100% truthful with Alabama, SEC, and NCAA. It was not proven by the NCAA, but Saban knew about his players and Tom. Why do we think Alabama disassociated with Tom? If nothing was proven, why take those steps? They all knew. It was more about protecting the program. I have no issues with that. It all comes back to my original point that even Saban knows about impropriety amongst his program before they are investigated.

 

[TerryP]

Why do we think Alabama disassociated with Tom? If nothing was proven, why take those steps?

The letter to Tom:

“ You have potentially placed the university and its student-athletes at risk. This risk includes exposing our student-athletes to potential NCAA investigations or sensationalized journalism based on the assumptions that wrongdoing has taken place. Both can result in temporary suspensions of student athletes while additional inquiries are conducted.”

It was not proven by the NCAA, but Saban knew about his players and Tom.

This never went to the NCAA. It stopped at the SEC offices when the reports were filed.

It's a bit confounding to think they knew of players getting paid for their memorabilia and did nothing but on the other hand suspended players, starters mind you, for giving away text books and notebooks. There were seven suspended then, right? We're talking 11 with Tom.

Both of these situations fall under the same bylaws; impermissible benefits. Why suspend for one but not the other?

 

[mando]

@mando is right here.

I like how this sounds . Do not get that much I am going to savor it....

 

[BamaFan334]

The letter to Tom:

“ You have potentially placed the university and its student-athletes at risk. This risk includes exposing our student-athletes to potential NCAA investigations or sensationalized journalism based on the assumptions that wrongdoing has taken place. Both can result in temporary suspensions of student athletes while additional inquiries are conducted.”

This never went to the NCAA. It stopped at the SEC offices when the reports were filed.

It's a bit confounding to think they knew of players getting paid for their memorabilia and did nothing but on the other hand suspended players, starters mind you, for giving away text books and notebooks. There were seven suspended then, right? We're talking 11 with Tom.

Both of these situations fall under the same bylaws; impermissible benefits. Why suspend for one but not the other?

Because Tom was donating to the program on top of paying players for jerseys, helmets, gloves, autographs, and photo ops with his company. That's lack of institutional control. Why would they want that going any higher than the SEC offices? Because the penalty is far more severe. I'm telling you right now I guy I trust when it comes to this stuff heard it from a player directly that was involved here. I'm saying the University and Saban knew the truth. We all know there's "knowing without knowing". Just like at Enron for example. They "knew, but didn't know". All you have to do is not ask the questions, and when you're forced to face it you can plead ignorance or shape it how you want.

Using Miami as a loose example with Nevin Shapiro. Dude was donating big money to the University and they willingly accepted it and smiled knowing the football players were also receiving benefits from him. The football players got popped and then the University did everything it could to act like they didn't know when they did. I will say atleast Alabama disassociated with Tom and made it a public deal so everyone knew, but a lot of people knew before this became even a thing in the beginning.