🏈 Better team?

Do stats tell the whole story? No...but they give you a humoungous clue. There's a reason we keep up with them. I could see saying that the stats don't tell the truth with maybe a QB or a WR...but punt return stats are hardly as situational as others are.

I love Palmer...I really do...but Arenas is by far the better punt returner.
 
Thats an opinion not a fact. Much like your opinion that Joe Flacco wouldnt play in the NFL. Paul Johnson wouldnt be successful coach.


Flacco being at Delaware was not an excuse for Navy losing to them. Perriloux is at JSU but FSU and Ga Tech beat them. Perriloux will play in the NFL.

Paul Johnson will never win big in the FCS. He still hasn't and he never will.

What I said about Johnson was - his offense works against defenses that aren't prepared for it. A disciplined defense with equal or greater talent will eat him alive... and he always loses a game or two to teams he should beat. Always...like at Navy he lost to Delaware.

Look at this season. Miami palyed disciplined defense and destroyed them. If you take away the option, his teams lose. Va Tech will kill them this week - Just like LSU did last year...and he will probably lose to a lesser team down the road - like Virginia. Last year it was UNC.

Of course, if he still has Vandy/Wake/Duke on that brutal schedule...

Option offenses are fun throwbacks...I like them...but I don't what it at Alabama. I want to win championships, and the bone won't do it in 2009.

Answer this...if Ga Tech was in the SEC, and their schedule included LSU, UT, Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, South Carolina Auburn, etc., how many of those teams would they beat?

They might outscore Arkansas...we saw what LSU's defense did to them last year. Florida would annihilate them. So would we. South Carolina would beat them. Arkansas and Auburn might actually outscore them. In the SEC, they would be middle of the road at best. If Johnson were here, that is exactly where we would be.
 
I dont remember Palmer ever fumbling a punt. (prob did)

I sure as heck dont ever remember him fumbling on his own 5 yard line. Arenas has made some blunders. Those stats have been conviently left out of this thread.
 
I don't remember Palmer fair-catching punts inside his ten, another "no stat". Palmer was better. Arenas is good, very good. Palmer was better.

I hope we have to argue over which undefeated team was better... this January!
 
I don't remember Palmer fair-catching punts inside his ten, another "no stat". Palmer was better. Arenas is good, very good. Palmer was better.

I hope we have to argue over which undefeated team was better... this January!

We'll just have to agree to disagree. But like you, I hope we're able to argue over that in January.
:td:
 
I dont remember Palmer ever fumbling a punt. (prob did)

I sure as heck dont ever remember him fumbling on his own 5 yard line. Arenas has made some blunders. Those stats have been conviently left out of this thread.


You are suffering from selective memory. Palmer had his share of snaffu's and gaffaws. He fumbed. He botched a fair catch or two.

We can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but the comparison of Palmer to Arenas as a punt returner isn't even close. You are wanting to say Ken Darby was better than Bo Jackson or Herschel Walker.

Palmer was a great ko return man. A very good receiver...and an "ok" punt returner. He was dangerous with the ball in his hands, but so is any good receiver/RB.
 
No way to prove this, but I submit that today's athletes are not necessarily better athletes than those of the eighties and nineties, but they do have the advantage of better weight training methods and better nutrition. This makes your typical athlete of today bigger and stronger than his counterpart in the earlier time, but I firmly bellieve that if you took someone such as Eric Curry for example, and had him train the same way that someone like Lorenzo Washington trains today, you'd have a 25 pound heavier Eric Curry who would still be a superior football player. That 92 defensive roster was loaded with players who played at the next level, just as (I hope) has many future pros.

The biggest difference between the two teams, IMO, if you could cancel out the advantages in training methods, is that the 2009 offense has better athletes on the Ol, and several more playmakers. As much as I loved Jay Barker as a player, his job in 92 wasn't to win the games but to keep from losing them.
 
You are suffering from selective memory. Palmer had his share of snaffu's and gaffaws. He fumbed. He botched a fair catch or two.

We can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but the comparison of Palmer to Arenas as a punt returner isn't even close. You are wanting to say Ken Darby was better than Bo Jackson or Herschel Walker.

Palmer was a great ko return man. A very good receiver...and an "ok" punt returner. He was dangerous with the ball in his hands, but so is any good receiver/RB.



Then let me have my selective memory!!

In all seriousness I looked for stats including snafus and about the only thing I could come up with was tons of statistics from his time in the NFL (Not For Limbaugh). I'd enjoy a good link with the information. Otherwise, we both have our memories. Yours of an overrated guy winning the MNC and later being third in the Heismann balloting and me with my clouded visions of him high stepping, sending shivers down the spines of the opposing coordinators, and the choruses of Dooooo-ce. Maybe you were more like my son, who was six at the time and was sure the fans were booing.
 
Arenas never played QB and saved our butts single handedly vs. Ole Miss and Tennessee. Everyone in the entire stadium knew what Palmer would do on our 2-pt. conversion to tie UT in '93, yet no one could stop him. You couldn't stop him behind center. It was truly amazing.

Maybe Javy could run some QB, but thank goodness we haven't had to go that route.

Actually I'd take either one though and be happy. :smile:
 
Arenas never played QB and saved our butts single handedly vs. Ole Miss and Tennessee. Everyone in the entire stadium knew what Palmer would do on our 2-pt. conversion to tie UT in '93, yet no one could stop him. You couldn't stop him behind center. It was truly amazing.

Maybe Javy could run some QB, but thank goodness we haven't had to go that route.

Actually I'd take either one though and be happy. :smile:

Well of course Arenas hasn't. Arenas isn't an offensive player.
 
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I repeat...

Javy is a better PUNT RETURNER than Palmer was.

Does Javy play WR or QB? NO.

Palmer was a better KO RETURNER than Javy.

Did Palmer play CB? NO.

Palmer was an All-American WR.

Javy is on the watch list for the Chuck Bednarik Award given to best college defensive player. He is also on the watch lists for the Bronko Nagurski Award and the Jim Thorpe Award given to best defensive back. He was also named a Pre-Season All-American.

Both are/were great players at their respective positions, but If I am building a team and selecting players, and I had to choose between Javy and DP as a PR, I choose Javy without even thinking twice.

Chief, the difference in your son and I was that I was a college football contemporary of Palmer. He and I are the same age I think...he may be a year older.

Here is where I get my perspective on 1992 v/s 2009. Coming out of HS (c/o 1991) I was 6'1/275, and a D1 recruit until my knee got in the way, then I tried D2 before giving it up due to constant knee dislocations. I was the 3rd strongest player in the state of Alabama in HS in 1990, and I smashed the squat record at a non-sanctioned event. My knee injury prevented me from getting it on the books at the state meet. I had a very good 400 and 100m time, and respectable 40. I played against a number of D1 signees (some who panned out and some who didn't) as well as competed against them at weight lifting contests, and many of them wouldn't make the JSU scout team today. The Alabama players (in-state) you watched on TV in 1992-3-4, I competed against. I knew them from games and power-meets. I saw them up close and personal...even beat a few of them arm wrestling.

Diet and S&C make a difference, but it is not an overnight fix. Kids today start MUCH earlier and by the time they reach college they are freaks of nature. A player like a copeland or curry might be capable of development to that level, but they would have had to start with whey shakes and S&C in junior high...attending camps and working out constantly. As it is, Deaderick and Washington are both superior athletes to Curry and Copeland.

But could a 6' 250 center who could benchpress 300 (maybe) keep Cody off of Barker? The 2009 defense would eat the 1992 offense alive. As I have said, the 1992 offense wouldn't cross the 50.

Yeah, it is my opinion...The 2009 Bama team would beat the 1992 by 30-ish, the 1979 by 50+, and 2009 scout team could beat the 1973 team like Ga Tech beat Cumberland.

By the same token, my 1990 HS team was 12-0 with an average margin of victory of 35 until we got knocked out of the playoffs. Two years ago I was back home and watched them play...they had a bad season, but as I watched them I realized that this team (destined to have a losing season) would have beaten us silly.

It is already a different era.
 
check and mate

/thread

The issue is better head to head. The 1992 team was the best team in 1992.

The 1966 Alabama team went 11-0 and only gave up 44 points on the season. Would they beat the 1992 team? 2009?

No.

The 2009 UNA team would beat the 66 team like GaTech beat Cumberland.

Different era, different athletes.

Stick to checkers, mate.
 
Who cares about that though? Yeah, the 2009 St Louis Rams are a helluva lot better than the 66 Packers. No one's disagreeing there, but it's irrelevant. Go undefeated first, then we'll compare teams.
 
Who cares about that though? Yeah, the 2009 St Louis Rams are a helluva lot better than the 66 Packers. No one's disagreeing there, but it's irrelevant. Go undefeated first, then we'll compare teams.


So why are you posting in this thread? The whole point is head to head discussion between 1992 and 2009. Nobody denies the 1992 team accomplished more - to discuss that at this point would be less than irrelevant - it would be stupid.

The only RELEVANT discussion at this juncture is head to head comparison - the point of virtually every post in this thread until you went off topic.

Your check bounced, mate.
 
Your career at JSU and high school doesnt have anything to do with this thread but youve mentioned it twice.

You think is Javy is a better punt returner. Some of us dont.

When this team goes 14-0 wins the SEC and MNC ill consider this a team worthy of discussion with 92. Until then they dont belong.

and this thread wasnt head to head until you made it that. The thread is best TEAM! not if they played each other. The 92 team is light years ahead right now because they completed every task at hand. This team is only half way through.
 
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Your career at JSU and high school doesnt have anything to do with this thread but youve mentioned it twice.

You think is Javy is a better punt returner. Some of us dont.

When this team goes 14-0 wins the SEC and MNC ill consider this a team worthy of discussion with 92. Until then they dont belong.

and this thread wasnt head to head until you made it that. The thread is best TEAM! not if they played each other. The 92 team is light years ahead right now because they completed every task at hand. This team is only half way through.


And that's chess, and that is check mate.

I still like your spunk, Big Fan. I'm glad we're on the same team. :lol:
 
Your career at JSU and high school doesnt have anything to do with this thread but youve mentioned it twice.

You think is Javy is a better punt returner. Some of us dont.

When this team goes 14-0 wins the SEC and MNC ill consider this a team worthy of discussion with 92. Until then they dont belong.

and this thread wasnt head to head until you made it that. The thread is best TEAM! not if they played each other. The 92 team is light years ahead right now because they completed every task at hand. This team is only half way through.

My playing experience falls into the same time frame as the 1992 Alabama team. Considering the fact that I played against members that were on the 92 team when I was a HS senior, and competed against several others in weight lifting competitions and various athletic events, it is relevant to the discussion. Unlike most of you, I have first hand personal knowledge of what kind of athletes they were relative to my own athletic ability - which was not bad. I also know what kind of athletes play today.

The thread was "Which team is better, 1992 or 2009?"

The question said nothing about outside competition or the season they played in. It is head to head - which is the better team. If you want a thread that contextualizes the accomplishments of the two teams (which is a stupid idea) start it yourself. You are fond of the 1992 team and let your emotions cloud your vision of reality...just like the Arenas v/s Palmer debate. Your heart tells you Palmer was the greatest ever. 2009 athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than 1992. There were a few floating around in 1992 that were comparable to 2009, but in 2009, teams are 3 deep with players considered freaks of nature in 1992.

As I have said, the 1992 defense would be good today...Oden, London, and Hall were a solid LB corp, but would you trade the 1992 3 deep for the 2009 3 deep? honestly? Even without Hightower the 2009 group is very good. Hall (7th round) and London (3rd round) both played for a while in the NFL but their careers were not spectacular. Oden (6th round) made a roster for 3 years. Hightower and McClain are future 1st rounders, and the across the board talent level is much higher. Had London gone down with an injury, we would have been hurting...coach Stallngs himself has commented on our injury luck and lack of depth many times since then.

You could make an argument for Curry and Copeland over Washington and Deaderick (even though they are smaller, and weaker - Curry was tall and skinny), but would you trade James Gregory for Terrence Cody or Marcel Dareus?

The 1992 defensive secondary was probably the best group of starters ever in a secondary, but the 2009 group probably has more depth.

The real issue is back to the offense, as well as S&C. 2009 is a different world. The 1992 offense would have a hard time making a first down.

You guys remind me of the old white guy in the 70's arguing that Marciano would knock out Ali. The reality was, Ali would have knocked out Marciano inside of 3 rounds.
 
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