🏈 Better team?

[252BAMA]

1992 Bama or 2009 Bama?

 

[Eabama]

2009 Offense is better
2002 Defense is better......But a lot of football to be played in 2009

 

[252BAMA]

2009 Offense is better
2002 Defense is better......But a lot of football to be played in 2009

Did you mean 1992 Defense? And yes I can see where a lot of people would want to withhold their answer until after the 2009 season was over.

 

[TheChief]

Had they not played so conservatively, the 1992 offense would have looked vastly different. The '92 team was so special. Barker was better than anyone will ever give him credit. I reserve my judgement on comparing the two teams... for now. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend several games in '92, including the inauguaral SEC Championship game. The defense that year was just downright scary. This year... Could it be better than '92?

Man, tough questions. I'm glad this is crossing some minds.

 

[TerryP]

1992 team would lose playing this team. Two different types of athletes.

 

[BAMAFSTBACK]

1992 team would lose playing this team. Two different types of athletes.

Oh I don't know...:headscratch:

 

[elbatider]

At the mid-point of this season, I think we have a better shot at a national championship than I did at the mid-point of the 1992 season, but who knows. I don't think this year's team could have scored on the 1992 defense nor could the 1992 offense score on this defense. Who was the kicker in 1992? It might come down to a long field goal. Also, might have to look back to see how the 92 team was in the turnover margin cause this group is pretty good and that might be the deciding factor.

 

[Big_Fan]

I am posting this under this thread. It was originally posted in the Cavalcade of Whimsy thread, but it applies to both...

I agree with his point and said something similar in the inaugural trickle down.

Physical development, S&C, sports nutrition, etc., are light years ahead of what they were 20 years ago. As much as it hurts to think about it, the 1979 Alabama national Championship team would be blown out by the 2009 UAB team. I would even go so far as to say that a top level high school team of 2009 would beat most college teams from before 1985.
While there isn't a high school team that would beat them, our 1992 national championship team is notably different than today's teams.

This is the whole premise of "trickle down" in college football...there are more high level players than high level teams have slots for. Recruiting has become a game of figuring out which five star athlete is truly the best, and lower level teams end up with some great players.

Compare the offensive line from 1992 to the 2009 team:

LT Matt Hammond 6'3/266 - LT James Carpenter 6'5/300
LG George Wilson 6'2/263 - LG Mike Johnson 6'6/305
C Tobie Shiels 6'3/250 - C William Vlachos 6'1/294
RG Jon Stevenson 6'2/273 - RG Barrett Jones 6'5/280
RT Roosevelt Patterson 6'4/290 - RT Drew Davis 6'7"/305

The biggest OL on that team was Patterson, and he was extremely flabby at 290 - although he was in shape and reasonably quick.
Runningbacks were much smaller back then. Consider that Tarrant Lynch was only 225...or Martin Houston was roughly the same size as Trent Richardson.

The 1992 defense would be a good defense today, but not the brick wall that it was in 1992. The 2009 Alabama offense would run for 150+ and score 30 against it...the 1992 offense wouldn't cross the 50 against the 2009 defense.

So, as much as it hurts to say it, the 2009 team is MUCH better than the 1992 team...because it is already a different era.

If you go back to pre-1980, college teams would be blown out by today's top high school teams. The players on a 2009 high school team would be bigger, stronger, and faster than the college teams from back then.

Consider our 1973 team.

Here is the OL... (some may be wrong, but it is close)

OT Marvin Barron - 6'1/218
OG Morris Hunt 6'0/220
C Sylvester Croom 6'0/210
OG Buddy Brown 6'2/242
OT Steve Patterson 6'1/220

Can you imagine this OL trying to block the DL for Hoover? Every single player on Hoover's defensive 2 deep would be stronger and (probably) faster than every member of the 1973 team.

College to college for a second...can you imagine what Terrence Cody would do to Sly Croom? The 1973 OL couldn't even double team Cody...it would take a triple or quadruple team.

The defensive ends were 205 and 215. DuBose was LB at 220, and the biggest DT's were 230-240 with little weight training and poor nutrition by today's standards. A RB like Ingram or Richardson would abuse them.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

edit....

Consider also that offenses are much higher powered today. There are a lot of formations and styles that are more difficult to defend. What the defense did against Arkansas was extremely impressive...I am interested to see what Arkansas does against UF. Florida will score a bunch, but I want to see how the arkie offense looks against that Florida brick wall defense.

 

[TerryP]

Oh I don't know...:headscratch:

There are a few exceptions, but I'm comparing position to position now.

Curry and Copeland would fit for our DE's.

But, at the same time, you take a guy like Martin Houston who was a fullback on that team and his size is what we are playing at RB. But, our RB's are a couple of seconds faster in the 40.

The secondary, as good as they were in '92, were the same height but a lot smaller and weaker than what we field today. Hell, Tommy Johnson's giving 20 lbs to Javy.

Lassic coming in at 180-185 as compared to a guy like Ingram at 212-215? Richardson at 220?

Sheils at Center...giving 50 lbs to Vlachos.

 

[BAMAFSTBACK]

Can't argue with the bigger faster stronger...makes sense.

 

[TerryP]

Damn. Why did I take the time to post that since BF did his thing. :rofl:

 

[kc]

2009 team

 

[252BAMA]

At the mid-point of this season, I think we have a better shot at a national championship than I did at the mid-point of the 1992 season, but who knows. I don't think this year's team could have scored on the 1992 defense nor could the 1992 offense score on this defense. Who was the kicker in 1992? It might come down to a long field goal. Also, might have to look back to see how the 92 team was in the turnover margin cause this group is pretty good and that might be the deciding factor.

I could not have been more confident at this point than I was in 1992. The Tulane game was the only game I did not see in person. And the reason for that was confidence. Already had plans to go to NO/BR for LSU. By the time the Tulane game rolled around I KNEW Bama was headed to the Sugar Bowl. Saw no reason to go to NO three times in one year.

As for this year. If I was still traveling with the Tide, I would have reservations in Pasadena.

 

[elbatider]

252 - I hear what you are saying about 1992 and somewhere during that run maybe game six or seven I told my co-workers (UGA and AU fans) we would win the SEC and have a shot at the national title. They laughed me under the table, but even so I felt that year we had no chance with Miami. This year I don't have that fear.

edit - and I will concede to what everyone is saying about the talent level being much different today than back then, but there were a few on that defense like Terry mentioned who would have no problem earning a starting role today.

 

[psychojoe]

Special teams wise I'd take Proctor over Tiffin, and Diehls over Fitzgerald,mainly because Diehls was deadly at soft kicking inside the 20. Arenas versus David palmer as a returner would probably be a standoff.


Comparing how these teams were relative to their opposition is probably a better comparison. Both defenses were dominant, though I'd give the 92 bunch a slight edge at this point, based on better pass rush with Curry and Copeland.

Talent wise this year's offense is significantly better. Stallings philosophy was based on a low risk offense, a strong defense and a strong kicking game. He didn't want the offense to do something to get us beat, figuring that sooner or later the other guy would crack with a turnover or a mistake in the kicking game. I can say with a lot of confidence that had Stallings faced the 4th and 2 early in the game in our own territory he would never have dreamed of going for it the way we did with Fitxgerald's pass to Barron.

Saban certainly believes in strong defense and a strong kicking game, but he takes the occasional gamble on offense because he knows his defense will bail him out. The 92 bunch had no explosiveness other than David Palmer. This team has several players who can produce a big play on offense.

I'll magically transform the 92 bunch into today's training methods, but even then say that giving them small edges on special teams and defense, the 2009 team is enough better on offense to defeat the 92 bunch. Like Big Fan it hurts me to come to that conclusion, for I loved that 1992 bunch.

Just to show how much difference training methods and nutrition make, John Hannah was a giant for the time he played in. He played at Alabama at 6'3" and 273 pounds, and wasn't much heavier in his NFL career. I think our smallest scholarshipped OL outweighs him by 15 pounds. Yet he was on the all time all NFL team as well as the all time Alabama team. I'd picture him, if he had today's training methods, as playing at 300+ pounds, yet being very nimble on pulls even as he was back when.

 

[Pingeye]

Hard for me to compare this years defense to `92. We ran a 4-3 scheme in `92 with two outstanding DE`s with Copeland and Curry. The 3-4 revolves so much more around the LB`s, which is the strong suite for our defense this year. We are definitely scary loaded at the LB position.

 

[BamaCore]

You know what scares me? Twenty years from now, will we be looking back at the teams of today and saying "they were a good team for their time, but no match for teams of today."

 

[bamatommy]

:word:

2009 Offense is better
2002 Defense is better......But a lot of football to be played in 2009

 

[BAMAFSTBACK]

Speculating should be a sport!

 

[252BAMA]

252 - I hear what you are saying about 1992 and somewhere during that run maybe game six or seven I told my co-workers (UGA and AU fans) we would win the SEC and have a shot at the national title. They laughed me under the table, but even so I felt that year we had no chance with Miami. This year I don't have that fear.

edit - and I will concede to what everyone is saying about the talent level being much different today than back then, but there were a few on that defense like Terry mentioned who would have no problem earning a starting role today.

I was more confident about beating Miami than I had been about UF. Reason being: Bama had a much better team than the 1989 squad that had played Miami in the Sugar Bowl. Miami didn't have near the team in '92 they had in '89. And in my mind, Bama had won the '90 Sugar Bowl because Miami fumbled just prior to 2 of their TD's and they weren't called. Therefore, if '89 Bama beat '89 Miami, then '92 Miami didn't stand a chance. They didn't. Ball game was over with just over 9 minutes left in the third quarter when Torreta called his final time out. Probably went to the bench and asked for glasses and toilet paper because he didn't know which he needed. You know: *hit or go blind.