| MBB/WBB Alabama Men’s Basketball Falls at No. 3/3 Tennessee in Final Seconds, 71-68

[BamaFan334]

This will be the only knock I have on Johnson, free throws.

To me, this is akin to blaming a bad shot on a 1i when one shouldn't have that club in their bag in the first place. In other words, it's misplaced blame.

How do you fault a coach for a player missing free throws?

There seems to be an assumption that it's something CAJ doesn't spend time with and there's no reason or basis for those who assume such. (Do we blame a golf coach for a "yipped" putt, the gymnastics coach due to a missed landing, or the QB coach for an overthrown ball?)
Jones is the one player how has struggled for the last two seasons. He's a lot like Hall who digressed a bit from the '16-'17 season going into '17 -'18 but has seemed to turn it around this season.

Player	last season	this season	change
Hall	.556	.761	+ .205
Petty	.711	.694	- .017
Ingram	.689	.712	+.023
Jones	.500	.452	-.048
AJ Jr	.789	.750	-.039
Riley	.625	.667	+.042
Reese	.786	.816	+.030

You are correct this is in no way on CAJ. FT shooting is technique, concentration and confidence. When you go to the line you have to believe you are going to make it.

I agree with everything you are saying here. But, do you think maybehe takes a page from Saban here and demands more from his guys and has them shooting more if these in oractice until he sees real results?

I'll say this in agreement...

I'm 6'8", was a center at my 3a high school. A "big man" by those standards. Now I could shoot fairly consistent from about a 15' perimeter, so I was more of a 4 than a 5. But definitely a 5 at my small school.

Right around the summer of my freshman year I had my eventual varsity coach pull me aside because he noticed I already had a pretty solid self-taught shooting rhythm, and showed me how to perfect it.

I repped, then repped, then repped some more. By my sophomore year I was starting. Was a 6th/7th man my frosh year. We had a couple guards that shot closed to 50% from the arc. Great shooters.

But guess who shot tech foul shots? The center with a much more consistent and fluid shooting motion... Me.

I was right around an 80% shooter from the line. Even if I was catching a blow, coach would sub me back in to shoot techs.

So yeah, foul shooting is about 80% reps, 20% mental.

2 words: Muscle. Memory...

I'm astounded at how a lot of shooters today can shoot the lights out from 3 with a janky motion that starts from under the chin, like Petty. But when they get to the charity stripe, they suck. It's because of their shooting motion.

And that, I have to agree, comes down to coaching.

I played in High School and have played organized BB for the last 15 years. I believe it's much more than 20% mental. If you look at the box score for the game Ingram, Petty, Jones, Lewis and Jones missed the FT's. Looking at @TerryP's graphics Ingram is shooting a higher percentage this year over last. Petty is basically the same and Jones is lower. Lewis is shooting .841 for the year so these guys went to the line in a hostile environment and did not convert. CAJ is a NBA coach of the year so I can't believe they are not getting enough practice.

I kinda have to disagree. I also played college ball on scholly and was set to transfer to Bama when I was diagnosed with a rare heart disorder that was detrimental to my athletic aspirations.

The reason I say foul shooting is only 20% mental is because if you've repped your ass off and have built perfect muscle memory, you don't HAVE to think. You just let your muscles react to what they've been trained to do.

We had a drill in HS at the end of practice where we'd run 5-10 suicides (the total number depended on how well we practiced, but always a minimum of 5) then starting at one end of the line, each player would shoot a front end. If he missed the front end, we'd run 2 more. If he missed the 2nd, we'd only run one. If 3 players in a row made both their FTs, conditioning was over. Guess who coach always placed at the end of the line to ensure maximum conditioning reps? Me, because I was the best foul shooter.

This drill did a couple things: it taught us mental toughness and how to focus on mechanics even when we were tired. And it served as great conditioning. The underlying lesson is whatever one guy did (in this case, if a miss) affected the whole team.

We had a similar drill in college, except we were grouped at 6 groups of 2 (or 3 if we had more than 12), and placed at each of 6 goals (including the 4 cross-court practice goals). Each player would shoot around 5 foul shots, then coach would blow the whistle. We'd run laps around the court, jumping and touching the breakaway box of each gaol as we approached it. After about 3-5 laps, coach would blow the whistle and we'd stop at the closest goal with our pairing and shoot more foul shots while sucking wind. Getting reps while conditioning.

CAJ is a great coach with a great resume' as you mentioned, no doubt. But in the NBA, coaches have to worry less about basic fundamentals because it's the highly-paid players' JOB to stay fundamentally sound.

It's in college where bad habits learned (like poor mechanics) because they weren't coached right in HS/travel ball (like @TerryP mentioned) should be corrected thru repetition. I'm confident that CAJ (as a green COLLEGE coach) has learned this and his adjusting. I bet he had guys repping FTs the next day till their arms felt like Jell-O.

I haven't touched a ball in 5 years, but I guaran-damn-tee you I could still hit 7/10 ice cold because my muscle memory is still that good.

Reps, reps, reps. Then rep some more till you get good enough at it to NOT HAVE TO think about it.

$20 on the table for you to run one suicide, shoot five free throws, run one suicide, and then take another five to see if you can make 70%. An unedited video posted on here for everyone's enjoyment will be proof. We need a little offseason fun. Make it $50 if you can do it all after drinking like you do for a gameday, and then in the order above.

Dayum...you're test are hard

Had to protect my money while getting everyone else a good laugh.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

They all look like shaq shooting ball...( not all but .....)...

This will be the only knock I have on Johnson, free throws.

To me, this is akin to blaming a bad shot on a 1i when one shouldn't have that club in their bag in the first place. In other words, it's misplaced blame.

How do you fault a coach for a player missing free throws?

There seems to be an assumption that it's something CAJ doesn't spend time with and there's no reason or basis for those who assume such. (Do we blame a golf coach for a "yipped" putt, the gymnastics coach due to a missed landing, or the QB coach for an overthrown ball?)
Jones is the one player how has struggled for the last two seasons. He's a lot like Hall who digressed a bit from the '16-'17 season going into '17 -'18 but has seemed to turn it around this season.

Player	last season	this season	change
Hall	.556	.761	+ .205
Petty	.711	.694	- .017
Ingram	.689	.712	+.023
Jones	.500	.452	-.048
AJ Jr	.789	.750	-.039
Riley	.625	.667	+.042
Reese	.786	.816	+.030

You are correct this is in no way on CAJ. FT shooting is technique, concentration and confidence. When you go to the line you have to believe you are going to make it.

I agree with everything you are saying here. But, do you think maybehe takes a page from Saban here and demands more from his guys and has them shooting more if these in oractice until he sees real results?

I'll say this in agreement...

I'm 6'8", was a center at my 3a high school. A "big man" by those standards. Now I could shoot fairly consistent from about a 15' perimeter, so I was more of a 4 than a 5. But definitely a 5 at my small school.

Right around the summer of my freshman year I had my eventual varsity coach pull me aside because he noticed I already had a pretty solid self-taught shooting rhythm, and showed me how to perfect it.

I repped, then repped, then repped some more. By my sophomore year I was starting. Was a 6th/7th man my frosh year. We had a couple guards that shot closed to 50% from the arc. Great shooters.

But guess who shot tech foul shots? The center with a much more consistent and fluid shooting motion... Me.

I was right around an 80% shooter from the line. Even if I was catching a blow, coach would sub me back in to shoot techs.

So yeah, foul shooting is about 80% reps, 20% mental.

2 words: Muscle. Memory...

I'm astounded at how a lot of shooters today can shoot the lights out from 3 with a janky motion that starts from under the chin, like Petty. But when they get to the charity stripe, they suck. It's because of their shooting motion.

And that, I have to agree, comes down to coaching.

I played in High School and have played organized BB for the last 15 years. I believe it's much more than 20% mental. If you look at the box score for the game Ingram, Petty, Jones, Lewis and Jones missed the FT's. Looking at @TerryP's graphics Ingram is shooting a higher percentage this year over last. Petty is basically the same and Jones is lower. Lewis is shooting .841 for the year so these guys went to the line in a hostile environment and did not convert. CAJ is a NBA coach of the year so I can't believe they are not getting enough practice.

I kinda have to disagree. I also played college ball on scholly and was set to transfer to Bama when I was diagnosed with a rare heart disorder that was detrimental to my athletic aspirations.

The reason I say foul shooting is only 20% mental is because if you've repped your ass off and have built perfect muscle memory, you don't HAVE to think. You just let your muscles react to what they've been trained to do.

We had a drill in HS at the end of practice where we'd run 5-10 suicides (the total number depended on how well we practiced, but always a minimum of 5) then starting at one end of the line, each player would shoot a front end. If he missed the front end, we'd run 2 more. If he missed the 2nd, we'd only run one. If 3 players in a row made both their FTs, conditioning was over. Guess who coach always placed at the end of the line to ensure maximum conditioning reps? Me, because I was the best foul shooter.

This drill did a couple things: it taught us mental toughness and how to focus on mechanics even when we were tired. And it served as great conditioning. The underlying lesson is whatever one guy did (in this case, if a miss) affected the whole team.

We had a similar drill in college, except we were grouped at 6 groups of 2 (or 3 if we had more than 12), and placed at each of 6 goals (including the 4 cross-court practice goals). Each player would shoot around 5 foul shots, then coach would blow the whistle. We'd run laps around the court, jumping and touching the breakaway box of each gaol as we approached it. After about 3-5 laps, coach would blow the whistle and we'd stop at the closest goal with our pairing and shoot more foul shots while sucking wind. Getting reps while conditioning.

CAJ is a great coach with a great resume' as you mentioned, no doubt. But in the NBA, coaches have to worry less about basic fundamentals because it's the highly-paid players' JOB to stay fundamentally sound.

It's in college where bad habits learned (like poor mechanics) because they weren't coached right in HS/travel ball (like @TerryP mentioned) should be corrected thru repetition. I'm confident that CAJ (as a green COLLEGE coach) has learned this and his adjusting. I bet he had guys repping FTs the next day till their arms felt like Jell-O.

I haven't touched a ball in 5 years, but I guaran-damn-tee you I could still hit 7/10 ice cold because my muscle memory is still that good.

Reps, reps, reps. Then rep some more till you get good enough at it to NOT HAVE TO think about it.

$20 on the table for you to run one suicide, shoot five free throws, run one suicide, and then take another five to see if you can make 70%. An unedited video posted on here for everyone's enjoyment will be proof. We need a little offseason fun. Make it $50 if you can do it all after drinking like you do for a gameday, and then in the order above.

I know what it would be if i did it.....now the shooting...be ok... drink a beer and shoot ...ok...run a suicide.... it would be....."we are gathered here to send 50+ into eternity....etc..etc..."

 

[TerryP]

@BamaFan334, I'm reading what @Sgt. Lincoln Osiris posted and couldn't agree more. It's a routine where players are doing the same thing, every time.

Hell, we've talked a lot about golf over the last few years. It's so similar. Think about about it...one takes several practice swings to "ignite" the muscle memory or routine where your golf swing falls into place.

Personally, I didn't accept the ball from the ref inside of the foul area...always at the top of the key. Three dribbles, knee bend (much like I learned by watching Kyle Macy when I was a kid,) and follow through. It was the same routine every time.

And hell, even when I was "runt" out of energy taking the same routine would settle everything down...and I"m right back to "three dribbles, knee bends, and follow through."

Back then we were supposed to shoot 100 per day. But then again, we didn't have set practice limits either. It was still on our own time just as @JoseyWalesTheOutlaw pointed out earlier.

 

[TUSKtimes]

@BamaFan334, I'm reading what @Sgt. Lincoln Osiris posted and couldn't agree more. It's a routine where players are doing the same thing, every time.

Hell, we've talked a lot about golf over the last few years. It's so similar. Think about about it...one takes several practice swings to "ignite" the muscle memory or routine where your golf swing falls into place.

So what your saying is, if Bulovas was shooting free throws with the same muscle memory that's in his leg, he would have fit right in with our team Saturday?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@TUSKtimes .....leg muscle...... dont think that was an attribute either...

 

[TerryP]

@BamaFan334, I'm reading what @Sgt. Lincoln Osiris posted and couldn't agree more. It's a routine where players are doing the same thing, every time.

Hell, we've talked a lot about golf over the last few years. It's so similar. Think about about it...one takes several practice swings to "ignite" the muscle memory or routine where your golf swing falls into place.

So what your saying is, if Bulovas was shooting free throws with the same muscle memory that's in his leg, he would have fit right in with our team Saturday?

What if that were the case but the ball wasn't a perfect sphere on each shot?

That said, you're beginning to get my point on the kickers. With your free throws it's all on one guy. With kicking, there are a minimum of three involved with each kick.

If the snap is bad, the the hold is bad, and the kick is often bad as well (unless it's some fluke like Jamie Christiansen against Texas Tech back in '05.)

If the snap is good, but the hold is bad, and kick is normally bad.

Now, with these two under consideration, how is a kicker supposed to have the same routine each and every time if the first two components—the snap and hold—aren't consistent each time as well?

(FWIW, I don't consider 14-18 to be bad, at all, for a true frosh. If you look over some of the best Bama kickers of all time you'll see very similar numbers their freshman year as well. As I recall, he was 11 of 12 to finish out the season. )

 

[BamaFan334]

@BamaFan334, I'm reading what @Sgt. Lincoln Osiris posted and couldn't agree more. It's a routine where players are doing the same thing, every time.

Hell, we've talked a lot about golf over the last few years. It's so similar. Think about about it...one takes several practice swings to "ignite" the muscle memory or routine where your golf swing falls into place.

Personally, I didn't accept the ball from the ref inside of the foul area...always at the top of the key. Three dribbles, knee bend (much like I learned by watching Kyle Macy when I was a kid,) and follow through. It was the same routine every time.

And hell, even when I was "runt" out of energy taking the same routine would settle everything down...and I"m right back to "three dribbles, knee bends, and follow through."

Back then we were supposed to shoot 100 per day. But then again, we didn't have set practice limits either. It was still on our own time just as @JoseyWalesTheOutlaw pointed out earlier.

Agreed, I had run through as well. Three self dribbles, toss the ball in the air and let it bounce back to me, two more dribbles, then shoot.

I always waste my best golf swing on one of those practice swings.

 

[TUSKtimes]

What if that were the case but the ball wasn't a perfect sphere on each shot?

That said, you're beginning to get my point on the kickers. With your free throws it's all on one guy. With kicking, there are a minimum of three involved with each kick.

If the snap is bad, the the hold is bad, and the kick is often bad as well (unless it's some fluke like Jamie Christiansen against Texas Tech back in '05.)

If the snap is good, but the hold is bad, and kick is normally bad.

Now, with these two under consideration, how is a kicker supposed to have the same routine each and every time if the first two components—the snap and hold—aren't consistent each time as well?

(FWIW, I don't consider 14-18 to be bad, at all, for a true frosh. If you look over some of the best Bama kickers of all time you'll see very similar numbers their freshman year as well. )

What do you think about the fact that he was replacing a senior kicker that had the same problem? And wouldn't the same be even more true for our punter, Skyler DeNotsoLong? Snap, punt, snap, punt.

 

[planomateo]

I always waste my best golf swing on one of those practice swings.

+1

 

[TerryP]

What do you think about the fact that he was replacing a senior kicker that had the same problem? And wouldn't the same be even more true for our punter, Skyler DeNotsoLong? Snap, punt, snap, punt.

I'll start a thread on this and get down to some more nitty-gritty.

FWIW, the feeling from the players and staff is Skyler has matured a lot over the course of this past season. Do you remember Saban mentioning how well he did in practice but it didn't translate to the games? Once the big lights came on he "couldn't see straight." The feeling is he's moved past a lot of those difficulties. We'll see.

One thing for sure in both situations: what's being practiced isn't translating to the field. And that, is part of the issue in my opinion. It's what's happening in practice.

And, BTW, what do Pappanastos and Bulovas have in common? Papp was dealing with Fletcher for most of his season--a true frosh as your long snapper.

If I have time this morning I'll get another thread about practice versus playing fields and both kicking situations...got a Lowe's trip and a new storm door to put up this morning and that might take a bit.

 

[The Old Man and the Tide]

This will be the only knock I have on Johnson, free throws.

To me, this is akin to blaming a bad shot on a 1i when one shouldn't have that club in their bag in the first place. In other words, it's misplaced blame.

How do you fault a coach for a player missing free throws?

There seems to be an assumption that it's something CAJ doesn't spend time with and there's no reason or basis for those who assume such. (Do we blame a golf coach for a "yipped" putt, the gymnastics coach due to a missed landing, or the QB coach for an overthrown ball?)
Jones is the one player how has struggled for the last two seasons. He's a lot like Hall who digressed a bit from the '16-'17 season going into '17 -'18 but has seemed to turn it around this season.

Player	last season	this season	change
Hall	.556	.761	+ .205
Petty	.711	.694	- .017
Ingram	.689	.712	+.023
Jones	.500	.452	-.048
AJ Jr	.789	.750	-.039
Riley	.625	.667	+.042
Reese	.786	.816	+.030

You are correct this is in no way on CAJ. FT shooting is technique, concentration and confidence. When you go to the line you have to believe you are going to make it.

I agree with everything you are saying here. But, do you think maybehe takes a page from Saban here and demands more from his guys and has them shooting more if these in oractice until he sees real results?

I'll say this in agreement...

I'm 6'8", was a center at my 3a high school. A "big man" by those standards. Now I could shoot fairly consistent from about a 15' perimeter, so I was more of a 4 than a 5. But definitely a 5 at my small school.

Right around the summer of my freshman year I had my eventual varsity coach pull me aside because he noticed I already had a pretty solid self-taught shooting rhythm, and showed me how to perfect it.

I repped, then repped, then repped some more. By my sophomore year I was starting. Was a 6th/7th man my frosh year. We had a couple guards that shot closed to 50% from the arc. Great shooters.

But guess who shot tech foul shots? The center with a much more consistent and fluid shooting motion... Me.

I was right around an 80% shooter from the line. Even if I was catching a blow, coach would sub me back in to shoot techs.

So yeah, foul shooting is about 80% reps, 20% mental.

2 words: Muscle. Memory...

I'm astounded at how a lot of shooters today can shoot the lights out from 3 with a janky motion that starts from under the chin, like Petty. But when they get to the charity stripe, they suck. It's because of their shooting motion.

And that, I have to agree, comes down to coaching.

Alabama's 76 percent free throw shooting is up from last season's 67 percent. 2016 -17 I think was around 64 percent. We've been really bad at free throws for years.

 

[Sgt. Lincoln Osiris]

They all look like shaq shooting ball...( not all but .....)...

This will be the only knock I have on Johnson, free throws.

To me, this is akin to blaming a bad shot on a 1i when one shouldn't have that club in their bag in the first place. In other words, it's misplaced blame.

How do you fault a coach for a player missing free throws?

There seems to be an assumption that it's something CAJ doesn't spend time with and there's no reason or basis for those who assume such. (Do we blame a golf coach for a "yipped" putt, the gymnastics coach due to a missed landing, or the QB coach for an overthrown ball?)
Jones is the one player how has struggled for the last two seasons. He's a lot like Hall who digressed a bit from the '16-'17 season going into '17 -'18 but has seemed to turn it around this season.

Player	last season	this season	change
Hall	.556	.761	+ .205
Petty	.711	.694	- .017
Ingram	.689	.712	+.023
Jones	.500	.452	-.048
AJ Jr	.789	.750	-.039
Riley	.625	.667	+.042
Reese	.786	.816	+.030

You are correct this is in no way on CAJ. FT shooting is technique, concentration and confidence. When you go to the line you have to believe you are going to make it.

I agree with everything you are saying here. But, do you think maybehe takes a page from Saban here and demands more from his guys and has them shooting more if these in oractice until he sees real results?

I'll say this in agreement...

I'm 6'8", was a center at my 3a high school. A "big man" by those standards. Now I could shoot fairly consistent from about a 15' perimeter, so I was more of a 4 than a 5. But definitely a 5 at my small school.

Right around the summer of my freshman year I had my eventual varsity coach pull me aside because he noticed I already had a pretty solid self-taught shooting rhythm, and showed me how to perfect it.

I repped, then repped, then repped some more. By my sophomore year I was starting. Was a 6th/7th man my frosh year. We had a couple guards that shot closed to 50% from the arc. Great shooters.

But guess who shot tech foul shots? The center with a much more consistent and fluid shooting motion... Me.

I was right around an 80% shooter from the line. Even if I was catching a blow, coach would sub me back in to shoot techs.

So yeah, foul shooting is about 80% reps, 20% mental.

2 words: Muscle. Memory...

I'm astounded at how a lot of shooters today can shoot the lights out from 3 with a janky motion that starts from under the chin, like Petty. But when they get to the charity stripe, they suck. It's because of their shooting motion.

And that, I have to agree, comes down to coaching.

I played in High School and have played organized BB for the last 15 years. I believe it's much more than 20% mental. If you look at the box score for the game Ingram, Petty, Jones, Lewis and Jones missed the FT's. Looking at @TerryP's graphics Ingram is shooting a higher percentage this year over last. Petty is basically the same and Jones is lower. Lewis is shooting .841 for the year so these guys went to the line in a hostile environment and did not convert. CAJ is a NBA coach of the year so I can't believe they are not getting enough practice.

I kinda have to disagree. I also played college ball on scholly and was set to transfer to Bama when I was diagnosed with a rare heart disorder that was detrimental to my athletic aspirations.

The reason I say foul shooting is only 20% mental is because if you've repped your ass off and have built perfect muscle memory, you don't HAVE to think. You just let your muscles react to what they've been trained to do.

We had a drill in HS at the end of practice where we'd run 5-10 suicides (the total number depended on how well we practiced, but always a minimum of 5) then starting at one end of the line, each player would shoot a front end. If he missed the front end, we'd run 2 more. If he missed the 2nd, we'd only run one. If 3 players in a row made both their FTs, conditioning was over. Guess who coach always placed at the end of the line to ensure maximum conditioning reps? Me, because I was the best foul shooter.

This drill did a couple things: it taught us mental toughness and how to focus on mechanics even when we were tired. And it served as great conditioning. The underlying lesson is whatever one guy did (in this case, if a miss) affected the whole team.

We had a similar drill in college, except we were grouped at 6 groups of 2 (or 3 if we had more than 12), and placed at each of 6 goals (including the 4 cross-court practice goals). Each player would shoot around 5 foul shots, then coach would blow the whistle. We'd run laps around the court, jumping and touching the breakaway box of each gaol as we approached it. After about 3-5 laps, coach would blow the whistle and we'd stop at the closest goal with our pairing and shoot more foul shots while sucking wind. Getting reps while conditioning.

CAJ is a great coach with a great resume' as you mentioned, no doubt. But in the NBA, coaches have to worry less about basic fundamentals because it's the highly-paid players' JOB to stay fundamentally sound.

It's in college where bad habits learned (like poor mechanics) because they weren't coached right in HS/travel ball (like @TerryP mentioned) should be corrected thru repetition. I'm confident that CAJ (as a green COLLEGE coach) has learned this and his adjusting. I bet he had guys repping FTs the next day till their arms felt like Jell-O.

I haven't touched a ball in 5 years, but I guaran-damn-tee you I could still hit 7/10 ice cold because my muscle memory is still that good.

Reps, reps, reps. Then rep some more till you get good enough at it to NOT HAVE TO think about it.

$20 on the table for you to run one suicide, shoot five free throws, run one suicide, and then take another five to see if you can make 70%. An unedited video posted on here for everyone's enjoyment will be proof. We need a little offseason fun. Make it $50 if you can do it all after drinking like you do for a gameday, and then in the order above.

I know what it would be if i did it.....now the shooting...be ok... drink a beer and shoot ...ok...run a suicide.... it would be....."we are gathered here to send 50+ into eternity....etc..etc..."

Lol

 

[EasyTider]

Maybe our guys should talk to Harrison Barnes when they toe the line?