🏀 Trevor Lacey to transfer....

Ironically, it was a 20 win season that resulted in the Elite 8 appearance under Gottfried. Gottfried only saw three season with a winning record in SEC play. Grant, on the other hand, has had a winning record in conference play in each of his three years.

Sorry, but if there is one thing amiss in your post it's including Gottfried's name with CM's and Wimp's. Heck, quite frankly, he doesn't belong in the conversation with Grant at this point.

Would you rather win 20 games in the regular season and go to the NIT or win 18 and go to the real tournament? Your post seems to express that you prefer the former. Grant has a winning record in conference play because the SEC is in it's worst slump ever. The SEC was actually a quality basketball conference when Gottfried was here. Why do you think we win 20 games and finish with 12 conference wins and get left out? You realize that 7-9 in the SEC used to get some teams in at-large, right?

Grant has won exactly 1 NCAA tournament game in his 7 year head coaching career (and that wasn't at Bama). In Gottfried's 4th year we were a #2 seed in the dance and won the league's regular season. We did choke in the tourney, but just getting a #2 seed is worlds better than anything Anthony Grant has done here. The only thing you're right about is that Gottfried isn't in the same class as Wimp and CM, but he is still very much ahead of Grant.

What I don't get is why your ilk love Grant so much? Hey, I can understand at least some of the Gottfried hate, but why do you have such blind faith in Grant? He's proven nothing and it is evident that a lot of his players hate playing for him.
 
Would you rather win 20 games in the regular season and go to the NIT or win 18 and go to the real tournament? Your post seems to express that you prefer the former. Grant has a winning record in conference play because the SEC is in it's worst slump ever. The SEC was actually a quality basketball conference when Gottfried was here. Why do you think we win 20 games and finish with 12 conference wins and get left out? You realize that 7-9 in the SEC used to get some teams in at-large, right?

Grant has won exactly 1 NCAA tournament game in his 7 year head coaching career (and that wasn't at Bama). In Gottfried's 4th year we were a #2 seed in the dance and won the league's regular season. We did choke in the tourney, but just getting a #2 seed is worlds better than anything Anthony Grant has done here. The only thing you're right about is that Gottfried isn't in the same class as Wimp and CM, but he is still very much ahead of Grant.

What I don't get is why your ilk love Grant so much? Hey, I can understand at least some of the Gottfried hate, but why do you have such blind faith in Grant? He's proven nothing and it is evident that a lot of his players hate playing for him.

For lack of a better way to put it, you're putting words in my mouth.

I've not professed an undying love for Grant. I've stated I'm not on the anti-Grant bandwagon. To me, there's a huge gulf in between those two islands.

I don't "hate Gottfried." I've lost respect for the man and that's largely based on things off the basketball court. I don't include his current tenure at NC State in my judgment in his coaching acumen. My opinions are based solely on what he did—in this case didn't do—while he was at UA. Case in point, the failure to move away from his high post offense when we didn't have the talents or personnel to run such effectively.

I alluded to player development in an earlier post. Let me go a little further on that subject for a second.

With TL, he certainly was highly touted on his arrival in Tuscaloosa. Going into this season some considered him to be the most talented player on the roster. Yet, in retrospect, where does he rank now? Third, fourth?

Now, when looking at player development, we've seen Releford develop into perhaps our most talented back-court player. If we are going to point to Grant and say there's a deficiency should we not also point to Trevor and consider his success?

The transfers do make me skeptical. However, when I look at those we lost from the season before last we've got as many that should have been gone as we do who left on their own accord.

In terms of the strength of the SEC as a conference, we have dealt with a few down years. However, the last two have given us an Elite 8 team along with a national championship.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the 20 win mark. It's not the same benchmark as it was a decade ago. However, it still bares consideration.

Winning road games? Winning conference records? In my opinion, that still carries weight.
 
How long did it take Tom Creen(sp. check) to get Indiana back to national prominence?

Four seasons. I remember watching them last year and the discussions of the dramatic turn-around they had from the 2010-2011 season to the 2011-2012 season. Their win total more than doubled.

If I recall correctly, his winning percentage was less that .333 his first three years, roughly that amount his second and third year. I know they won less than 10 conference games his first three years combined.

However, I'd have to question how good of an example Crean would be versus Grant. Indiana is a basketball state.
 
Ironically, it was a 20 win season that resulted in the Elite 8 appearance under Gottfried. Gottfried only saw three season with a winning record in SEC play. Grant, on the other hand, has had a winning record in conference play in each of his three years.

Sorry, but if there is one thing amiss in your post it's including Gottfried's name with CM's and Wimp's. Heck, quite frankly, he doesn't belong in the conversation with Grant at this point.

I have to agree with Terry here.

And like others have said, the transfers worry me. And the offensive scheme (or lack of one) worries me also. But with that said, I'm not on the fire CAG bandwagon quite yet.

Personally, from what I've seen, I think what Grant needs is a core group of guys to stay together for at least 3 years. To me it seems he makes sure to get them to get their defense down pat, then he works on their offensive skills. The only problem I have with this is that I think he needs to have one guy one the court that is a true scorer, even if he can't play defense at all.
 
I'm a Grant fan because of his demeanor and his success before arriving at Bama. Then, the direction it SEEMED the team was headed.

Terry, Alabama is not a basketball state. Do you think anyone can EVER go past Great 8 at UA?
 
I'd rather go 17-12 (7-9) and make the NCAA tournament like in 02-03 than win 20 games and have a >.500 win % in conference and go to the NIT. We pay this guy close to $2 mil/yr. Do you think we've gotten a reasonable return on our investment?
 
I'm a Grant fan because of his demeanor and his success before arriving at Bama. Then, the direction it SEEMED the team was headed.

Terry, Alabama is not a basketball state. Do you think anyone can EVER go past Great 8 at UA?

Sure, I believe it's possible. But, I don't think it's something to expect in a matter of a few years.

I look at a team like Florida, who didn't even make the NCAA tournament until the late 80's, and know it is possible. But, we can't do it on instate talent alone. If you look at Florida, it took Lon Kruger several years to get that program some national recognition.

As a comparison, it's much like what happened with Oregon football. Rich Brooks built a foundation there, and it didn't reach the next plateau until Bellotti took over the program. Kelly took them to the heights they sit today.

Kruger at UF is similar to Bellotti. He got them close, but Donovan took them to the next level.

Now, back to Tuscaloosa. Gottfried, even with some early success, left the program on shaky ground at best. The "culture" within the program at the time of his departure isn't something that can be turned around in a year or two.

I would have liked to see more success in the recruiting from Grant. I weigh that against a kids desire to play a game featuring strong fundamental defense.
 
Here is a post from another board (TI) concerning the transfer. I must say that I agree with everything that was said, though I would have added Nick Jacobs name to those who made considerable improvement.

I flew down from Maryland for the Bama-Texas A&M basketball game on January 19 and the discussion among our group after the game was who was our best player. Some said Releford, others thought Lacey. I said Lacey. It became clear toward the end of February that Releford was without a doubt our best player, and that by the NIT not only wasn't Lacey our 2nd best player, but was probably our 4th best player behind Releford, Randolph and Obasohan.
I don't know what happened, but if a player wants to develop maybe they can get in shape and play with a desire to improve. This season I saw Releford greatly improve, Randolph greatly improve and Obasohan greatly improve. Others improved in smaller amounts, but the person who regressed the most from the end of January to the end of the season was Trevor Lacey. He clearly went backwards.
If Obasohan can continue his development and Key is as good as advertised, we may be very good at guard next season. We need one more in the rotation, but if needed Randolph and Cooper can swing out to 2G position. Randolph's shot was coming on very late in the season and Cooper especially needs to improve his shot. Hopefully not having to play PF like he did last season will free him up to concentrate on his game on the wing. I dearly hope Trevor Lacey leaving isn't a bad sign, but we won't know until we take the court in November. I wish Trevor Lacey well, but my focus is always on Bama so lets move forward and support the program and the players who decide to play at Alabama.

As far as Gottfired is concerned, aside from his off the court antics, Alabama got worse every year once he signed the big contract.
 
Four seasons. I remember watching them last year and the discussions of the dramatic turn-around they had from the 2010-2011 season to the 2011-2012 season. Their win total more than doubled.

If I recall correctly, his winning percentage was less that .333 his first three years, roughly that amount his second and third year. I know they won less than 10 conference games his first three years combined.

However, I'd have to question how good of an example Crean would be versus Grant. Indiana is a basketball state.

Just using him as an example/. Not comparing the two, just saying we should give Grant about another year or two.
 
I'd rather go 17-12 (7-9) and make the NCAA tournament like in 02-03 than win 20 games and have a >.500 win % in conference and go to the NIT. We pay this guy close to $2 mil/yr. Do you think we've gotten a reasonable return on our investment?

17-12 with a 7-9 conference record is not going to get in the tournament. Not unless those 10 OOC wins are against very big time opponents. And if you can only manage 7 conference wins in the SEC, you ain't beating 10 big time OOC teams.
 
Just using him as an example/. Not comparing the two, just saying we should give Grant about another year or two.

I got that. Sorry you took it as me critiquing your example.

If it took Crean four years, I'd give Grant at least five as well...leaning towards six especially with limited numbers in recruiting. If we could recruit five per year? Then, a four year window would make a lot of sense.
 
17-12 with a 7-9 conference record is not going to get in the tournament. Not unless those 10 OOC wins are against very big time opponents. And if you can only manage 7 conference wins in the SEC, you ain't beating 10 big time OOC teams.

17-12 (7-9) got us in in the early 2000s when the league wasn't garbage. You're basically making my point for me. 3 straight 20 win seasons isn't some great achievement when you play a weak schedule and don't make the dance 2/3 seasons. Oh, and the one year you do make it, you get a 9 seed and lose the first game.

And the idea that it takes 6 years to build a basketball program is a complete joke. Also, no one has mentioned that Indiana was coming off of a huge scandal when Crean took over. Alabama did not even have any APR problems when Grant took over. The reason we don't have talent is all on Grant. You can't blame the previous coach when your current coach is going on year 5.

I understand there's no way he's getting fired this year, but if we don't make the NCAA tourney next season he should be gone. There are people here who will want him retained if he makes the NIT again. I just don't get the Grant defenders. He's not having success and his brand of basketball flat out sucks. You like watching us struggle to break 60 every game?
 
17-12 (7-9) got us in in the early 2000s when the league wasn't garbage. You're basically making my point for me. 3 straight 20 win seasons isn't some great achievement when you play a weak schedule and don't make the dance 2/3 seasons. Oh, and the one year you do make it, you get a 9 seed and lose the first game.

And the idea that it takes 6 years to build a basketball program is a complete joke. Also, no one has mentioned that Indiana was coming off of a huge scandal when Crean took over. Alabama did not even have any APR problems when Grant took over. The reason we don't have talent is all on Grant. You can't blame the previous coach when your current coach is going on year 5.

I understand there's no way he's getting fired this year, but if we don't make the NCAA tourney next season he should be gone. There are people here who will want him retained if he makes the NIT again. I just don't get the Grant defenders. He's not having success and his brand of basketball flat out sucks. You like watching us struggle to break 60 every game?

Six years a complete joke? How so?

Deficient. That's one one you can use for McDonald All-American talent when talking about the state of Alabama. We do not have the ability to recruit the way a school like Kentucky has done under Cal.

13 kids on scholarship. That limits the number of kids a coach can bring in; this you know. We've had issues with some of the players attitudes towards their coach. We've had issues with some of the players and their attitudes towards established behavioral guidelines.

What strikes me as a joke is how one can give a football coach four years to get a program where they want it when he can replace 1/3rd of his roster in one class and a basketball coach finds himself replacing, on average, 1/5th of his roster in each years classes. Yet, it's a joke to say the basketball coach deserves more time?

You say you don't get the defenders of Grant when I see people pointing to both deficiencies and attributes and saying he deserves more time. What I also see is a group that want to put him on a time table after a short time on the job.

In the end, you and I just view this from a different standpoint.

As stated earlier, at the beginning of this past season I saw this team with a threshold of a fourth seed in the SEC tourney. They made it that far. I expected an NCAA bid and yes, that was disappointing.

Bottom line is I've still got some patience to fall back on largely in part to knowing what was inherited.
 
One thing Alum05 you mentioned has me thinking back a bit.

I believe it's a pretty fair statement to say using that 2002-03 season with 17 wins isn't the best example. I recall that team and also recall thinking they didn't deserve an invitation to the Dance that year.

If I recall correctly, we were fourth in the West and either eighth or ninth in the conference. Yet, there was only one team that wasn't mediocre that season; Kentucky. That was Tubbs year to win the NC. By tournaments end UK had close to 30 wins and the closest SEC team was around 20, 21 or so. One good team and six or seven mediocre teams of which we were the worse.

Now that I'm writing this...I remember we lost to Indiana. And, if memory serves, with an offensive production that put out just over 60 points in that game.

Ha, the memories are flooding back...that was during Mike Davis' tenure at Indiana and the previous year the Hoosiers had come off an appearance in the title game.
 
IMO, if I'm remembering this correctly, the main reason Bama got in the Tourney for 2002-2003 season is becuase the selection commitee knew they screwed Bama the year before by not giving them a bid.

And I will agree with you on one thing Alum05. If we don't see major improvement and an NCAA bid this upcoming season, it will be time for Grant to go.
 
A basketball guru I am not. This year, even the games we won were hard to watch. The game would be over and we had won and I would still be mad and in a bad mood for some time. I'll take it further than most....I am ready for coach Grant to go and give someone else a try....and no I don't know who we should hire. We have made a move on the womens side of basketball so I have some hope there. I have never disliked watching bama play basketball until this year, but at times it was brutal.
 
Just summing up feelings on the original subject of this thread...

There's been situations with kids throughout the years when I've felt it was time for parents to cut the strings. I suppose it should be called the W Syndrome? Earl Williams, Richard Williams, and I can't think of Jamies Winston's dads name...but you get the picture.

Now, with things I've heard and then recently read about the transfer subject being broached by TL's parent...geez, having a hard time chalking these move up in the "con" column under Grant.
 
Along the line of parents, but off the topic of basketball...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/04/23/duron-carter-nfl-draft/2107981/

"He didn't commit a crime, he has no tattoos, he has no kids, and he's a pleasant kid. His thing is he hates school, though," Cris Carter told USA TODAY Sports. "And I'm his dad. He's really bright; he's got an IQ over 130. He just hates school. We gave him the pretest on the Wonderlic. He got a 28."

Once more, Cris repeated with emphasis on each word: "He. Just. Hates. (Bleeping). School."
 
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