⛳ The Masters week: Rahm wins his first green jacket.

[TerryP]

My question here is why does it matter to build your brand when you're making ten times what your brand would make you on the PGA tour?

Part of the sales pitch from LIV was "The World Tour" versus "The PGA Tour."

IE: "We can spread the game of golf to the world."

How do you spread the game to other locations around the world with a tour event based on limited events? You can suggest not appearing in the same city twice but I think you'd consider the basic rules of building a fan base beforehand.

The LIV has the money to finance a world wide tour: with more players, and more events, and better TV coverage ...

 

[BamaFan334]

Part of the sales pitch from LIV was "The World Tour" versus "The PGA Tour."

IE: "We can spread the game of golf to the world."

How do you spread the game to other locations around the world with a tour event based on limited events? You can suggest not appearing in the same city twice but I think you'd consider the basic rules of building a fan base beforehand.

The LIV has the money to finance a world wide tour: with more players, and more events, and better TV coverage ...

I don't disagree with you there. I kind of feel like they are doing what the NFL and NBA are doing by playing in spots to get it started and gaging interest al la England and China.

 

[TerryP]

I don't disagree with you there. I kind of feel like they are doing what the NFL and NBA are doing by playing in spots to get it started and gaging interest al la England and China.

What would they be gauging in England? Their success against the DP Tour?

As a fan I love the idea of more availability. I love the idea of a world wide tour—to a degree.

A world wide tour means taking players from the PGA. We're seeing that. It also means raiding the DP Tour. We're seeing that. What we're also seeing in their effort to "broaden the audience" is they're watering down the game itself: today's tournaments—sans a few—don't offer the degree of competition as we saw two years ago.

I don't see golf hitting China's mainland for major events. Hell, from what I understand, it's cheaper to fly to Hawaii from the PRC and play than it is for those in China to remain and play at home.

 

[BamaFan334]

What would they be gauging in England? Their success against the DP Tour?

As a fan I love the idea of more availability. I love the idea of a world wide tour—to a degree.

A world wide tour means taking players from the PGA. We're seeing that. It also means raiding the DP Tour. We're seeing that. What we're also seeing in their effort to "broaden the audience" is they're watering down the game itself: today's tournaments—sans a few—don't offer the degree of competition as we saw two years ago.

I don't see golf hitting China's mainland for major events. Hell, from what I understand, it's cheaper to fly to Hawaii from the PRC and play than it is for those in China to remain and play at home.

No, I meant the NFL going to Europe and the NBA going to China, not golf. I was just stating they are playing all around the world, so I consider that a softer approach to growing golf, kind of like the NFL and NBA are doing.

Think about it... who in Spain, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Australia, and even Mexico would have gotten to see Phil Mickelson, Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Cameron Smith, Bryson DeChambeau and the likes? All major winners on the PGA Tour coming to their country that otherwise would not be. That offers a glimmer of something anyways. You don't really see the big dogs of the PGA play in Mexico, and you only see them in the United Kingdom for the British Open, the big dogs in Hawaii at Kapalua. I don't think this is some big splash, but they are doing more than the PGA in my eyes.

 

[TerryP]

who in Spain, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Australia, and even Mexico

So if the goal is growing the sport, why do we see soccer as their main sport?

"Let's take one of the most expensive games to play, and let's take it to ____?"

I get what you're saying; what Phil used as his first umbrella. Pipe dream in a PR release.

We're two years into the split and I don't see anything, any better, from where I sit as a fan.

I don't see the comparison to the NFL and NBA's "showcase" events overseas.

 

[ElephantStomp]

My son and I went for the first time this year. We were there for the weekend, the first day I was a bit emotional (not tears or anything) because as an avid golfer and golf fan the first thing I thought of was the history, the players from the past that walked those grounds. It was absolutely magnificent.

Good thing this is a once a year thing because Jesus you could go broke there.

 

[BamaFan334]

So if the goal is growing the sport, why do we see soccer as their main sport?

"Let's take one of the most expensive games to play, and let's take it to ____?"

I get what you're saying; what Phil used as his first umbrella. Pipe dream in a PR release.

We're two years into the split and I don't see anything, any better, from where I sit as a fan.

I don't see the comparison to the NFL and NBA's "showcase" events overseas.

Cost is a lot of the reason golf hasn't grown. Even being a "white male", I was not able to afford the lessons and such as a kid. I have talent, but never a real threat at the game because it wasn't as available or cheap back in the 90's.

That being said, cost is not a reason to NOT try and grow the game. Enough equipment around now where there are opportunities.

 

[TerryP]

That being said, cost is not a reason to NOT try and grow the game. Enough equipment around now where there are opportunities.

Dude, we see basketball goals without nets in the US, soccer goals in the countries we've talked about not only without nets but they aren't a real goal. Two of the cheapest sports to play and there's not enough peripheral equipment. We see kids playing soccer without shoes.

And it's your contention there's enough equipment around to make this dream a reality?

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I was playing A LOT of golf when Tiger first hit the scene with his First Tee program. I saw a lot of new players on the courses. It wasn't good for the game in most cases because these new golfers hitting the courses didn't go through First Tee; they just caught the fad. It makes me skeptical, elitist I'd accept, on the influx of a lot of new people on the course.

On the other hand, in Huntsville my experience was ideal. Through their PARA department they had a youth program. $10, you had to pass a golf test, and you could play in the afternoons during the hottest part of the day. I can't remember how much per round but I could afford it—couldn't have been much.

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You mentioned the PGA in Mexico. It was at Vallarta, a resort. I struggle seeing where that community is picking up the game due to that tournament.

 

[BamaFan334]

Dude, we see basketball goals without nets in the US, soccer goals in the countries we've talked about not only without nets but they aren't a real goal. Two of the cheapest sports to play and there's not enough peripheral equipment. We see kids playing soccer without shoes.

And it's your contention there's enough equipment around to make this dream a reality?

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I was playing A LOT of golf when Tiger first hit the scene with his First Tee program. I saw a lot of new players on the courses. It wasn't good for the game in most cases because these new golfers hitting the courses didn't go through First Tee; they just caught the fad. It makes me skeptical, elitist I'd accept, on the influx of a lot of new people on the course.

On the other hand, in Huntsville my experience was ideal. Through their PARA department they had a youth program. $10, you had to pass a golf test, and you could play in the afternoons during the hottest part of the day. I can't remember how much per round but I could afford it—couldn't have been much.

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You mentioned the PGA in Mexico. It was at Vallarta, a resort. I struggle seeing where that community is picking up the game due to that tournament.

Willing to bet my last dollar you have enough clubs in your garage to donate to someone in need. I play golf 3-4 times a year and I do. How many Play It Again Sports and Goodwills have clubs? Go to my club and they have 50 extra sets sitting around for rent that I have verified never get touched. If there was a true push there are plenty of damn golf clubs out there. Don't give me that there is a shortage or not enough. The issue is there is a dollar to be made and plenty of people choose that instead. Look at the refurbished or gently used golf ball market. Plenty of supplies and equipment rhat could be moved around. How many grandfathers have a garage full of clubs with dust on them?

As far as Mexico, it only takes one kid to gain interest to grow the sport. I can tell you for a fact not every kid at the Masters this year came from a priviledged background with loads of money and golf equipment falling out of the car they came in.

I agree with you about what Tiger created though. It had some good, but brought a lot of bad too. Game of etiquette and discipline, and it brought a lot of untucked shirts and guys hacking up the course without repairing it, and even more slow play due to lack of practice or skill where I've literally seen a guy hit a ball over 20 times from tee to hole without picking up.

 

[TerryP]

. How many Play It Again Sports and Goodwills have clubs?

Actually, none that I've seen. I buy books often at Goodwill and Play It Again closed years ago. I get your point.

You're citing examples that fit here, but they don't fit in this "world tour." While we could put clubs in the hands of a few kids here in the states, on a grander scale? The cost of a refurbished ball here seems negligible compared to $40 a dozen. What's .25 a ball for a teen in Mexico? People in Puerto Vallarta could afford to pick up the game. But damn, it's Puerto Vallarta.

Willing to bet my last dollar you have enough clubs in your garage to donate to someone in need.

Okay. I do have a full set (that I'm going to sell.) I have 25-30 steel shafted irons but those shafts are destined to become crack pipes. Gotta feed the kids and there's a great customer base at the flea market.

Seriously though ... in my "immediate circle" we don't have enough clubs to put a set in the hands of everyone 18 and under in our group. I don't see the numbers.

If I were to guess I'd say less than 10% of the population of the US plays golf. I don't see a lot of clubs out there. And, a lot of what I see that could be used are 15-20 years old. Most keep their set of clubs for years.

 

[BamaFan334]

Actually, none that I've seen. I buy books often at Goodwill and Play It Again closed years ago. I get your point.

You're citing examples that fit here, but they don't fit in this "world tour." While we could put clubs in the hands of a few kids here in the states, on a grander scale? The cost of a refurbished ball here seems negligible compared to $40 a dozen. What's .25 a ball for a teen in Mexico? People in Puerto Vallarta could afford to pick up the game. But damn, it's Puerto Vallarta.


Okay. I do have a full set (that I'm going to sell.) I have 25-30 steel shafted irons but those shafts are destined to become crack pipes. Gotta feed the kids and there's a great customer base at the flea market.

Seriously though ... in my "immediate circle" we don't have enough clubs to put a set in the hands of everyone 18 and under in our group. I don't see the numbers.

If I were to guess I'd say less than 10% of the population of the US plays golf. I don't see a lot of clubs out there. And, a lot of what I see that could be used are 15-20 years old. Most keep their set of clubs for years.

I have never bought a set of clubs. I have always used hand me downs. I kept the last set of Burner irons that my dad gave me when I was like 15 and played with them until I was like 35. I have a new (used) set now that I play with and still have my old ones in case my son decides he wants to play and has a set to start with. Clubs are too dang expensive new.

 

[SnakeDoc]

I have never bought a set of clubs. I have always used hand me downs. I kept the last set of Burner irons that my dad gave me when I was like 15 and played with them until I was like 35. I have a new (used) set now that I play with and still have my old ones in case my son decides he wants to play and has a set to start with. Clubs are too dang expensive new.

I'm still playing with a set of Golfsmith Viper MS irons that my Dad assembled back around 2000.

I have Calcutta (Callaway clone) 3 and 5 woods from around 93 that I still use. And a Big Bertha driver my Dad won in a tournament around 92-94.

 

[TerryP]

I have never bought a set of clubs. I have always used hand me downs. I kept the last set of Burner irons that my dad gave me when I was like 15 and played with them until I was like 35. I have a new (used) set now that I play with and still have my old ones in case my son decides he wants to play and has a set to start with. Clubs are too dang expensive new.

They'll also last longer. $1500 set should last 12-15 years for your weekend golfer.

 

[BamaFan334]

They'll also last longer. $1500 set should last 12-15 years for your weekend golfer.

You steel or graphite shafts?

 

[TerryP]

You steel or graphite shafts?

Both. I rotate five that are graphite: woods and hybrids. The rest are steel.