🏈 The loss of Sunseri and pass rush

[Southern Bama]

I cant help but think that his loss was a lot more critical than what could have been expected....maybe Im wrong. He just seems to find the ball and disrupt plays.....not to mention hes smart as a whip and is a leader. I don't know if I would go as far as to say things would have been different in the two losses but it causes one to pause and give thought to it. And hopefully this recruiting class will finally produce a genuine pass rusher.

 

[TerryP]

I cant help but think that his loss was a lot more critical than what could have been expected....maybe Im wrong. He just seems to find the ball and disrupt plays.....not to mention hes smart as a whip and is a leader. I don't know if I would go as far as to say things would have been different in the two losses but it causes one to pause and give thought to it. And hopefully this recruiting class will finally produce a genuine pass rusher.

Vinnie is a smart football player. Losing a starter isn't something a team can just move on from even when they are backed up by a player of the caliber of Landon Collins.

I do believe you're mixing two different aspects of our defense when you mention the pass rush. The team lost Vinnie just before the UT game this season. Up until that point he didn't have any sacks and only had one tackle for a loss; against Colorado State. He did have one situation where he was credited for affecting the quarterback with a hurry.

It's easy to forget the teams that took advantage of our pass defense last year did so by attacking Vinnie the majority of the time. This year they went after him again which had a bearing on the 10 or so passing attempts he's credited for breaking up. What did he end the season with? Two interceptions?

I have no doubt he was the "quarterback" of our secondary. I also don't doubt the issues the team faced, and struggled with, wasn't entirely due to secondary play.

Teams have found the so-called "chink in our armor." It's not as much of the no-huddle/hurry up style of play. That's a portion, sure. But, it doesn't stand on its own. That type of offense with a dynamic performance by a quarterback? There's the Achilles heel.

If the defense isn't given the time to make the checks they want to they are off balance. The majority of the time we have the talent to overcome that obstacle. When a team has the skill set to not only drastically reduce our checks, but the skills to move the ball? It can spell trouble. Especially, like last night, when the offensive guys turn the ball over.

If we eliminate the turnovers from last night that game is likely a win. That doesn't fall on the defense. It falls on the mental preparedness of our offensive players.

 

[Southern Bama]

Absolutely...I agree with everything you said. The turnovers decided the game. I trust the staff woke up today ready to address the defense issue. Im hoping the landing of Tony Brown and hopefully Humphrey will bring some stability to the corners.

 

[TerryP]

Absolutely...I agree with everything you said. The turnovers decided the game. I trust the staff woke up today ready to address the defense issue. Im hoping the landing of Tony Brown and hopefully Humphrey will bring some stability to the corners.

I understand that sentiment.

I have to caution it's not a good thing to put faith and hope in two guys who haven't played a down of collegiate ball even if they are both highly regarded recruits. In our system, that's asking A LOT of two 17-18 yr old kids.

Heading into next season we'll have a core of guys who have some big game experience. The continuing shuffle we've seen with our secondary, despite the problems it created this season, does bode well for the future.

Let's not be too quick too forget that Belue was playing hurt all season long (missed two games all together.) And then on the other side; how many different guys had a start this season?

Fulton started for the Va Tech game. Maurice Smith had a start. Sylve had three I believe? Then we have Eddie Jackson and Cyrus Jones. If we start including guys who saw significant playing time we're adding Geno Smith, Jabriel Washington (played in about half of the games,)...

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

I follow you on all the DB rotation issues. FWIW, I don't think Belue was all that great to begin with. I think we can clearly see that CNS defense must have a lock down corner. 2 cannot hurt but he must have at least one. We don't.

Also, the HUNH, will take advantage of the OLB positions, especially on angles. When is the last time we had a shutdown OLB? Upshaw?

Lastly, not having a Cody, Chapman, or Williams at the NT position was exposed against AU. Hopefully, we can get someone like Elam to fill this gap. Robinson might take over the position & filling this job but we'll just have to see.

 

['65 Cobra]

I follow you on all the DB rotation issues. FWIW, I don't think Belue was all that great to begin with. I think we can clearly see that CNS defense must have a lock down corner. 2 cannot hurt but he must have at least one. We don't.

Also, the HUNH, will take advantage of the OLB positions, especially on angles. When is the last time we had a shutdown OLB? Upshaw?

Lastly, not having a Cody, Chapman, or Williams at the NT position was exposed against AU. Hopefully, we can get someone like Elam to fill this gap. Robinson might take over the position & filling this job but we'll just have to see.

Absolutely right. I also think we shouldn't understate the value of Vinnie as an on-field leader. I wasn't a big fan of his before because I thought he got burned a lot. But I now know how important he was in getting people in the right position.

Next year we will need a disruptive NT to step up, an impact Jack, and upgrades in the defensive backfield. A tall order.

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

I honestly think that if D Hand does indeed sign & enrolls early I think he has the mental ability to contribute early. He is a bright kid. I see him filling the roll of Hightower IF he can get his reps in. If he is contributing well w/ schemes & Rueben Foster has come along, Hand could get pushed to the OLB, such as Jack. He'd probably get many rotations w/ Duvall. Foster needs to come along ASAP. If he can be the guy in the middle, that'll give Sunseri & DePriest to be the absolute field generals. DePriest better have a good spring & he needs to accept the role as Mosely did this year.

Side note--> Who is the DB coach now (ok Greg Brown)? I ask b/c I just read an article by Pat Forde noting that Pruitt at FSU has got one of the best DB in the country (not only talent but statistics too). It seems to me that we have a glaring hole trying to be filled from him going to FSU. How much of this has contributed to the constant DB rotation we have seen on the year? My gosh, if I see this I know CNS is way ahead of me. I cannot imagine being in some of the coaching meetings that are about to ensure, especially considering year end evaluations.

 

[jdpas29]

Vinnie was crucial.

 

[JoshB]

I honestly think that if D Hand does indeed sign & enrolls early I think he has the mental ability to contribute early. He is a bright kid. I see him filling the roll of Hightower IF he can get his reps in. If he is contributing well w/ schemes & Rueben Foster has come along, Hand could get pushed to the OLB, such as Jack. He'd probably get many rotations w/ Duvall. Foster needs to come along ASAP. If he can be the guy in the middle, that'll give Sunseri & DePriest to be the absolute field generals. DePriest better have a good spring & he needs to accept the role as Mosely did this year.

Side note--> Who is the DB coach now (ok Greg Brown)? I ask b/c I just read an article by Pat Forde noting that Pruitt at FSU has got one of the best DB in the country (not only talent but statistics too). It seems to me that we have a glaring hole trying to be filled from him going to FSU. How much of this has contributed to the constant DB rotation we have seen on the year? My gosh, if I see this I know CNS is way ahead of me. I cannot imagine being in some of the coaching meetings that are about to ensure, especially considering year end evaluations.

Look at FSU's two deep at corner, not a single freshman or redshirt freshman of the bunch, and he has one of the most talented corners in the country in Joyner (a senior). Look at our FOUR deep at corner and all the freshmen. Coming into 2013 only Deion Belue, Geno Smith, and John Fulton had experience at all. Geno got in the dug house and then moved to Safety, John Fulton turned into burned toast everytime he was on the field, and Belue was the only consistent one of the bunch. Sylve, Smith, Jones, Jackson had a grand total of zero starts and probably that many game reps between them.

 

[BamaMastiff44]

Give me a 3* "Agressive/Attacking" Defense and I bet they WHIP the 5* "Bend But Don't Break/Prevent" Defense 8/10 times.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but a "5 Star" Player Needs that Fire Burning Inside & Turned Loose or am I wrong.
Bulls in a China Shop...Please?!


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[JoshB]

^^ I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[TerryP]

Look at FSU's two deep at corner, not a single freshman or redshirt freshman of the bunch, and he has one of the most talented corners in the country in Joyner (a senior). Look at our FOUR deep at corner and all the freshmen. Coming into 2013 only Deion Belue, Geno Smith, and John Fulton had experience at all. Geno got in the dug house and then moved to Safety, John Fulton turned into burned toast everytime he was on the field, and Belue was the only consistent one of the bunch. Sylve, Smith, Jones, Jackson had a grand total of zero starts and probably that many game reps between them.

I'm nit-picking here Bird but this last bit is wrong.

Sylve started three games, Jackson started four, Smith started one game, and Jones started five.

The one with the least amount of game experience is likely Sylve and that was largely due to an ankle injury he suffered in the Arkansas game and never had the time to properly heal.

 

[riz]

We're not getting penetration into the backfield quick enough and we're too slow on the edges. That's what is killing us, or rather killed this year's D. We didn't have so much of a problem with it with Upshaw and Hightower and Nico and those guys.

 

[TerryP]

We're not getting penetration into the backfield quick enough and we're too slow on the edges. That's what is killing us, or rather killed this year's D. We didn't have so much of a problem with it with Upshaw and Hightower and Nico and those guys.

Interestingly enough, we had more quarterback hurries this season than we did in 2011.

 

[JoshB]

I'm nit-picking here Bird but this last bit is wrong.

Sylve started three games, Jackson started four, Smith started one game, and Jones started five.

The one with the least amount of game experience is likely Sylve and that was largely due to an ankle injury he suffered in the Arkansas game and never had the time to properly heal.

I was referring to their starts coming into 2013 not the starts they had during the year.

 

[TerryP]

I was referring to their starts coming into 2013 not the starts they had during the year.

:icon_thumright:

 

[riz]

Interestingly enough, we had more quarterback hurries this season than we did in 2011.

Maybe so, but in 2011 we didn't face as many teams running the kind of offenses we saw this year. And, in 2011 we caught them off the corners, too. You weren't beating those guys to the edge.

 

[TerryP]

Maybe so, but in 2011 we didn't face as many teams running the kind of offenses we saw this year. And, in 2011 we caught them off the corners, too. You weren't beating those guys to the edge.

No maybe about it. :biggrin_blue:

True on the edges...but that brings us full circle back to our defensive backfield. We had good containment with Dre, Robert, and Mark when it came to teams trying to get to the corners. Milliner was beginning to come into his own backing up Menzie at that time as well.

If you think back about it, one of the reasons we lost that game in 2011 to LSU is they were able to get to the corners with Jefferson. (Reminds me how good of a job Jerrell did that season with little to no recognition.)

 

[Crimson&WhiteGecko]

^
Harris was a prime example why that Defense was so good. It took him a while to buy in or figure out CNS defense but the mere fact that most have forgotten about him despite his starting role as LB during that season speaks to the level of talent on that defense. Didn't all the guys mentioned, except Lester, go in the first or early second round?

 

[TerryP]

^
Harris was a prime example why that Defense was so good. It took him a while to buy in or figure out CNS defense but the mere fact that most have forgotten about him despite his starting role as LB during that season speaks to the level of talent on that defense. Didn't all the guys mentioned, except Lester, go in the first or early second round?

Oh geez...making me think here.

Our starters that year were Menzie, Barron, Lester, and Kirkpatrick. Menzie went the second day if I recall correctly. 5th round? I think Lester was an undrafted free agent, wasn't he?

I'd be curious to find out who has the most starts in the NFL out of that group. I'll see if I can find out.