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From footballscoop.com
š Saban's speech at football camp: "It's June...and Nick Saban is officially 'feeling it.'
- Thread starter TerryP
- Start date
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From footballscoop.com
I'm floored by his acknowledging the "mommas" in the room and then immediately going ahead and airing "B.S." on the Public Address system. From the video it appeared as though this was a camp at the very least that included middle school children. Bad choice, and even worse is that it appeared to be a calculated decision.
I immediatley thought back a few years to the heat the Les Miles took when he did virtually the same thing at a post-signing day pep rally of sorts, with someone's youn child standing right behind him.
I was disappointed in CLM, and I'm disappointed in CNS for choosing that phase over something else.
I immediatley thought back a few years to the heat the Les Miles took when he did virtually the same thing at a post-signing day pep rally of sorts, with someone's youn child standing right behind him.
I was disappointed in CLM, and I'm disappointed in CNS for choosing that phase over something else.
Yes, this was the youth camp. 8-12 or 13 y/o, I think.
My nephew wanted to go so I paid and took him for his birthday, ergo, I was in the room during this. There were a few people that were mad and made comments but nothing major. There were a few grumblings about it at the dorm but again, no major heat.
I did think it was funny that Cochrane literally yelled at parents the same day this video was taken and on the final day of the camp, their camp director had to yell and the parents and made a comment over the PA system at BDS about "the parents not even listening" when they were essentially storming the field to get their kids too early.
This is largely the same speech as last year. Spending time/investing time, the Jordan reference, 3 things, etc were all repeats--for the new kids it is powerful but for the group that goes annually it loses its clout. Still, a good speech.
My nephew wanted to go so I paid and took him for his birthday, ergo, I was in the room during this. There were a few people that were mad and made comments but nothing major. There were a few grumblings about it at the dorm but again, no major heat.
I did think it was funny that Cochrane literally yelled at parents the same day this video was taken and on the final day of the camp, their camp director had to yell and the parents and made a comment over the PA system at BDS about "the parents not even listening" when they were essentially storming the field to get their kids too early.
This is largely the same speech as last year. Spending time/investing time, the Jordan reference, 3 things, etc were all repeats--for the new kids it is powerful but for the group that goes annually it loses its clout. Still, a good speech.
If they were offended by a football coach cussing, then they most likely will end up playing soccer anyway. kids nowadays need to know that in order to succeed, you will have to deal with all kinds of personalities. Shielding them from anything negative/contraversial is part of the "wussification" of our kids. Sure, it is always better to find another way to express yourself, but you can bet it got everyone's attention, which needed to be done, in his opinion. Cursing is part of football. Sorry, but it is. Anyone that says differently has never played the game.
:word:
I'm Right. You're Wrong. Here's Why.
1) CNS' reputation is critical to the success of the program. Those are CNS' views as inferred in his book. This impacts to some degree his reputation in a negative manner.
2) Reputation is an opinion, defined by others. One can only offer a case for a good reputation, one can not demand it. In this case, being a public icon as he is, "the public" will define CNS' reputation. (Think back to the heat he took after leaving Miami. He had a reputation as the most dishonest coach in football for a time, despite the truth. He had to weather that, to overcome that.)
3) CNS puts his name on the camp. CNS makes the choice to sell a product/service targeting children, apparently the youngest being Middle School boys. He was not subjected to an audience of children, he invited children.
4) In assuming some level of control over these 13 year olds campers, CNS is bound to provide an age appropriate environment. To use an extreme example to clarify a point, he can no more serve them beer than he can try to change their diaper. [I know that everyone was not 13, but the environment must be appropriate for all, thus it must be appropriate for 13 year olds.]
5) The question is what protocols is he obliged to provide for these 13 year olds? One child's home may define appropriate differently than another, but if you look at their public school environment you can get the clearest idea - an undisputable standard.
6) At any middle school, a football coach of 13 year olds can no more use profanity while addressing a group of 13 year olds than can the Principal over the school PA system or a Math teacher during a lesson. What your job is does not change your obligations. "Right and Wrong are not change by moving Left or Right" was how I heard it phrased during my teaching/coaching days. Simply put, cussing kids would get one removed from interaction with children (and fired if they could do it). Does it happen, sure, but more often around students who are a year or two away from being old enough to go to war, vice those who are a year of two removed from being the target market for Chuck-e-Cheese. Age matters, and American law, custom, and tradition bear that out.
7) Words are like bullet in that once either are fired, one no long has control over the damage that they will do. It is so unlike CNS to thoughtfully fire off a comment that he himself knew was wrong, as proven by his up-front apology. Imagine the fire storm in the press if Trent Richardson were caught on video addressing an assembly at some middle school and said CNS' exact same words. The plug for the mic would be pulled, he would be asked to leave, notes of apology would be sent home to parents, and the video would go viral. The sports nation would be calling for some sort of punishment from CNS, and yet its not TR addressing a gathering of 13 year olds, but CNS himself. If a player accidentally let "BS" slip in a locker room interview, do you suppose that player would be subject to so remedial training? Sure. So how can it not be hypocritical for players to not air "BS" when on video from now on?
8) As noted by Duder, there was instant disapproval by some there. Others maybe felt indifferent, but nonetheless as the parents went home I can't help but believe that the chatter about the camp experience was less about Investing Time versus Spending Time and more about along the lines of I can't believe that CNS told my son "That's B%$# S%$#" when I donāt cuss my child like that. [Again, I'm sure some parents likely do, but citing exceptions in an effort to skirt facing Right and Proper is still a dumb tact. e.g. "I'm not the only one speeding officer."]
9) The right thing to do, or say in this case, was so simple to see. This I strongly suspect was part of the problem that the grumbling parents had with his chosen actions. This was a bad choice. CNS knew it would be, and decided to go through with it anyway. If he himself thought that it was alright, he would not have apologized in advance. And now one can rightly wonder what other bad choices will he not care about making? -- and THAT hurts CNS' reputation, which hurts Alabama football, and hurts the UA, if you believe what CNS wrote in his own book.
---
LBS' personal take on this is that I wonder if he is simply one of those persons who is supremely suited for dealing with 17-22 year olds and perhaps a little out of step with younger kids. Most people are that way. Some folks are hard-wired in a way that makes them great elementary school teachers, yet they can't sustain an adult conversation. Some old folks hate kids, but are the bees-knees at the retirement community. If this is the case, I don't fault CNS for being that way. LBS' beef is that this was a simple issue to avoid and "I'm not good with middle schoolers" is no excuse.
1) CNS' reputation is critical to the success of the program. Those are CNS' views as inferred in his book. This impacts to some degree his reputation in a negative manner.
2) Reputation is an opinion, defined by others. One can only offer a case for a good reputation, one can not demand it. In this case, being a public icon as he is, "the public" will define CNS' reputation. (Think back to the heat he took after leaving Miami. He had a reputation as the most dishonest coach in football for a time, despite the truth. He had to weather that, to overcome that.)
3) CNS puts his name on the camp. CNS makes the choice to sell a product/service targeting children, apparently the youngest being Middle School boys. He was not subjected to an audience of children, he invited children.
4) In assuming some level of control over these 13 year olds campers, CNS is bound to provide an age appropriate environment. To use an extreme example to clarify a point, he can no more serve them beer than he can try to change their diaper. [I know that everyone was not 13, but the environment must be appropriate for all, thus it must be appropriate for 13 year olds.]
5) The question is what protocols is he obliged to provide for these 13 year olds? One child's home may define appropriate differently than another, but if you look at their public school environment you can get the clearest idea - an undisputable standard.
6) At any middle school, a football coach of 13 year olds can no more use profanity while addressing a group of 13 year olds than can the Principal over the school PA system or a Math teacher during a lesson. What your job is does not change your obligations. "Right and Wrong are not change by moving Left or Right" was how I heard it phrased during my teaching/coaching days. Simply put, cussing kids would get one removed from interaction with children (and fired if they could do it). Does it happen, sure, but more often around students who are a year or two away from being old enough to go to war, vice those who are a year of two removed from being the target market for Chuck-e-Cheese. Age matters, and American law, custom, and tradition bear that out.
7) Words are like bullet in that once either are fired, one no long has control over the damage that they will do. It is so unlike CNS to thoughtfully fire off a comment that he himself knew was wrong, as proven by his up-front apology. Imagine the fire storm in the press if Trent Richardson were caught on video addressing an assembly at some middle school and said CNS' exact same words. The plug for the mic would be pulled, he would be asked to leave, notes of apology would be sent home to parents, and the video would go viral. The sports nation would be calling for some sort of punishment from CNS, and yet its not TR addressing a gathering of 13 year olds, but CNS himself. If a player accidentally let "BS" slip in a locker room interview, do you suppose that player would be subject to so remedial training? Sure. So how can it not be hypocritical for players to not air "BS" when on video from now on?
8) As noted by Duder, there was instant disapproval by some there. Others maybe felt indifferent, but nonetheless as the parents went home I can't help but believe that the chatter about the camp experience was less about Investing Time versus Spending Time and more about along the lines of I can't believe that CNS told my son "That's B%$# S%$#" when I donāt cuss my child like that. [Again, I'm sure some parents likely do, but citing exceptions in an effort to skirt facing Right and Proper is still a dumb tact. e.g. "I'm not the only one speeding officer."]
9) The right thing to do, or say in this case, was so simple to see. This I strongly suspect was part of the problem that the grumbling parents had with his chosen actions. This was a bad choice. CNS knew it would be, and decided to go through with it anyway. If he himself thought that it was alright, he would not have apologized in advance. And now one can rightly wonder what other bad choices will he not care about making? -- and THAT hurts CNS' reputation, which hurts Alabama football, and hurts the UA, if you believe what CNS wrote in his own book.
---
LBS' personal take on this is that I wonder if he is simply one of those persons who is supremely suited for dealing with 17-22 year olds and perhaps a little out of step with younger kids. Most people are that way. Some folks are hard-wired in a way that makes them great elementary school teachers, yet they can't sustain an adult conversation. Some old folks hate kids, but are the bees-knees at the retirement community. If this is the case, I don't fault CNS for being that way. LBS' beef is that this was a simple issue to avoid and "I'm not good with middle schoolers" is no excuse.
You can type out as many essays dissecting the statement, the reaction to the statement, and the repercussions of the statement as you want, but it doesn't change with this one simple fact: You're completely over-reacting to and over-analyzing something nobody will remember in a few months. Sure some parents had their feathers ruffled a bit, but I don't recall any of them being so appalled that they dragged their kid out.
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Sorry to tax you with so many words. But you didn't tell me where I was wrong other than to offer a "because I said so". As presented, your profession of "fact" is opinion. I cited facts from CNS' own teachings, as presented in his book, as well as what I learned and experienced first hand as a school teacher and football coach -- I gave the why behind my statement. The door is open for you to counter as well.
CNS spent 16+ minutes because people do remember. He used profanity to increase the likelihood of them remembering.
People do remember what a coach does. Saban's "...make his @$$ quict" lockerroom classic. Bryant's "...we got them right where we want them" halftime speech against Tennessee. NC State's Jimmy V's celebration on the basketball court when he could not find someone to hug. Bobby Knight throwing a chair on to the court. Steve Spurrier visor being slammed to the ground. Woody Hayes punching the Clemson player. Lane Kiffin's "...sing Rocky Top all night long" prediction about beating Florida. Tommy Tuberville holding up fingers. And Les Miles using profanity at a Signing Day pep rally with a child standing behind him.
A parent wasting the money already paid by dragging their child out of camp is not the only way that this could be bad. Those who disapproved, where do you suppose their kids will camp next year? Will they recommend the camp to other parents? Parents care about their children, and it has been my experience over the years of dealing with hundreds of parents, that very few do prefer age-appropriate environments. If the thought is that CNS runs a great camp for High School Seniors, how does he draw kids who have camped for four years at another school. Relationships in recruiting are important, and if you dont start early, you're behind the curve. Parents are the gate-keeper to relationships with young kids, and as you stated some had their feathers ruffled.
I have to disagree with you here. In the last week I've seen reference to the speech that mentioned in this thread earlier when Miles let the f-bomb go. However, as different of a situation as it may be, it's still a story that follows him.
There needs, IMO, to be a distinction between profanity and vulgarity. Hell, some people still take offense at one saying, "Geez."
To this point, I've not seen anyone mention how difficult of a time Coach Saban had NOT calling Freddie Krueger "successful" when he was trying to define "relentless."
I thought that was pretty funny. I'm sure he does great trying to connect with older kids but my nephew sent me a "who is Freddie Krueger?" text message later--he then had to explain it to his roommate and a few of the kids he hung out with.
As for the profanity--was it the best thing to do? Obviously not. Will people remember it? Yeah, the people at the camp will remember it. I think it is fair to say that some parents will have a different view of Saban after hearing the speech and those parents may not send their kids back to the camp. However, what he said in this video is far from the only time he cursed during the week.
I think the difference between Miles dropping the F bomb and some of the other outbursts mentioned here is the small percentage of Bama fans that will actually see this video. 1,000 or so kids heard it, their parents heard it and whoever stumbles across this video on the internet will hear it and some of those people may be offended. This wasn't anything with TV cameras present that will be played over and over again on ESPN or dissected on Around the Horn or anything. Yes, he clearly could've made a better choice but this isn't in the same class as Miles.
There are other ways to get the point across without slipping into the vulgarity. My pastor will, on occasion, when dealing with something like that, will say "There's a Greek word for that: baloney." During Gulf War I when a reporter began a question to General Schwartzkopf with a praise of Sadam Hussein's military skills, the general responded with "That's bovine scatology". Both help you remember the topic of conversation, perhaps even better than "that's bull**it". The latter expression is both crude and common.
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