🏈 Penn State penalties: NCAA credibility plunges

[TerryP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>RT @<a href="https://twitter.com/bradwolverton">bradwolverton</a>: Jo Potuto, former chair, NCAA Committee on Infractions: "The bright line of substantive bylaw jurisdiction is history ...</p>&mdash; Travis Reier (@travisreier) <a href="https://twitter.com/travisreier/status/227869729421922305" data-datetime="2012-07-24T20:55:51+00:00">July 24, 2012</a></blockquote>
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[UAgrad93]

Huh? They've been charged.. they're in the system now and currently facing prison time. Paterno died before he could be charged, and if he were alive today, I would put money on the fact that he would be, too. What can the NCAA do to Shultz and Curley? Clearly they'll never be involved with the football program (or any others) ever again but the legal system is dealing with them as we speak. The NCAA is the legislative body of the athletic programs of its members... Paterno was the coach

You still missed it!! Emmert never mutters a word about the Athletic Director, Paterno's boss, the Prseident and Vice President of the University!! While the NCAA was out flashing their NEW powers, Emmert should've gone ahead and thrown those 3 under the bus as well, ie. any school that was to hire them, would have to show cause as to why they deserve to be hired. The NCAA has used this before with coaches. As far as criminal charges go, those 3 will probably get a couple years and it be a suspended sentence. Now if you heard those 3 have their names mentioned in the presser by Emmert, then please let me know.

 

[BamaCore]

Let's call this what it is. It's a seize of power when everyone has such an itchy trigger finger to have someone punished, innocence be damned, that they're willing to sit back and let them take it. All you need to do is look down throughout history to see how well that type of stuff shakes out.

 

[bamagirl917]

The objection to what the NCAA has done in this situation is far from grasping at straws.

I said grasping at straws in attempt to rationalize on behalf of PSU, but the wording was awkward, admittedly. I'm referring to this need some people have to continually throw out these "it's no different than if...." type scenario comparisons. It just doesn't work here.

 

[bamagirl917]

You still missed it!! Emmert never mutters a word about the Athletic Director, Paterno's boss, the Prseident and Vice President of the University!! While the NCAA was out flashing their NEW powers, Emmert should've gone ahead and thrown those 3 under the bus as well, ie. any school that was to hire them, would have to show cause as to why they deserve to be hired. The NCAA has used this before with coaches. As far as criminal charges go, those 3 will probably get a couple years and it be a suspended sentence. Now if you heard those 3 have their names mentioned in the presser by Emmert, then please let me know.

I didn't "miss" anything, we just clearly see this differently. I don't see how it would be sensible for the NCAA to come out commenting on former executive university faculty who are currently under criminal investigation and will be dealt with in a court of law, particularly when - again - the NCAA is the executive body of the ATHLETIC PROGRAMS of it's member schools... I don't understand what you think they could do to these men.. "The NCAA has used this before with coaches".... yeah, they aren't coaches. Vacating wins just happens to affect the head coach directly..

 

[TerryP]

I said grasping at straws in attempt to rationalize on behalf of PSU, but the wording was awkward, admittedly. I'm referring to this need some people have to continually throw out these "it's no different than if...." type scenario comparisons. It just doesn't work here.

I see.

With some of the comments here I believe you have to know who is posting them. Now, by that, I don't mean know personally. Just know their posting styles well enough to understand what they are saying. Like you mentioned, sometimes wording is awkward. It happens to all of us and there isn't a better case example that some of the posts in this thread.

As example, I don't believe the statement about child molestation and rape being the same are characterizing as the "same type of offense." But, I do believe like the posters does in this regard.

Black is black, white is white. Right is right, wrong is wrong. I don't see varying degrees of being wrong. Gray is just a color, it has no bearing on moral issues. In other words, you won't find me saying, "that's a gray area" when it comes to things like this.

 

[bamagirl917]

I see.

With some of the comments here I believe you have to know who is posting them. Now, by that, I don't mean know personally. Just know their posting styles well enough to understand what they are saying. Like you mentioned, sometimes wording is awkward. It happens to all of us and there isn't a better case example that some of the posts in this thread.

As example, I don't believe the statement about child molestation and rape being the same are characterizing as the "same type of offense." But, I do believe like the posters does in this regard.

Black is black, white is white. Right is right, wrong is wrong. I don't see varying degrees of being wrong. Gray is just a color, it has no bearing on moral issues. In other words, you won't find me saying, "that's a gray area" when it comes to things like this.

I agree that wrong is wrong, and stated that, but there are obviously still laws, rules, ethical guidelines, etc that govern behavior and have varying degrees of consequences, so I see no point in a philosophical debate here. James Holmes' would've also been "equally wrong" to have shot and killed someone mid-argument as he was to do what he did, but certainly there's variability in terms of how far-reaching the effects of one's actions are and therefore the degree of punishment they deserve. The exact statement in the post I responded to was: "punishments are never as severe as what PSU is getting." That is ridiculously simplistic.. and yes, grasping at straws.

 

[TerryP]

I agree that wrong is wrong, and stated that, but there are obviously still laws, rules, ethical guidelines, etc that govern behavior and have varying degrees of consequences, so I see no point in a philosophical debate here. James Holmes' would've also been "equally wrong" to have shot and killed someone mid-argument as he was to do what he did, but certainly there's variability in terms of how far-reaching the effects of one's actions are and therefore the degree of punishment they deserve. The exact statement in the post I responded to was: "punishments are never as severe as what PSU is getting." That is ridiculously simplistic.. and yes, grasping at straws.

Not building on that statement, but let's say "allow me to build beside that statement."

I'm very curious how those who are still in the midst of the judicial system with perjury charges are handled.

I would suggest another avenue might have been a lifetime show cause ruling against them. Along with all of the other intertwined story lines we've discussed on various threads here, I'm still left baffled how the NCAA can exert their power over the football program and the Paterno win total using the Freeh report as its foundation but can't use the same report in making a conclusive decision on those people.

I have my thoughts, but I'm going to leave you with one.

With the institution the NCAA was allowed to use a phrase they didn't coin, but usurped, "Staring down the barrel of a gun." That was Penn State's position whether people agree with it or not.

When it comes to people like Spanier, is it possible the NCAA hasn't acted because if they did they would be "sentencing" a individual without giving him the right of due process?

 

[Bo]

A guy on Finebaum claiming to be be a lawyer made an interesting statement yesterday regarding the NCAA handing down sanctions to PSU.

He said that by the NCAA punishing PSU for this, they had admitted to being responsible for PSU, and therefore could be subject to litigation from the victims.

 

[planomateo]

^^ that would be awesome...

 

[TerryP]

A guy on Finebaum claiming to be be a lawyer made an interesting statement yesterday regarding the NCAA handing down sanctions to PSU.

He said that by the NCAA punishing PSU for this, they had admitted to being responsible for PSU, and therefore could be subject to litigation from the victims.

Hmm. That is interesting. I can't say I'd have any objections to that.