🏈 Offensive game plan for Utah?

[redandwhite10]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

 

[TerryP]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

USCe or USCw?

 

[redandwhite10]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

USCe or USCw?

USC Trojans

 

[TerryP]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

USCe or USCw?

USC Trojans

Probably the best linebacking corps in college football this year especially in blitzing situations.

Very good secondary. A lot of experience back there.

Defensive line is good, but not one of the best. Susceptible to a strong rushing attack, I suspect. But, that's a hard one to quantify because they really haven't faced one this year.

It's hard to say just how good they are, to be honest. If you look at the last half of their schedule this year they haven't faced anyone of note. Heck, the last good team they played was back in the beginning of October.

 

[ericd]

"What in the %&^* is a ute?"

You know, it was those two young defendants in "My Cousin Vinny".

 

[redandwhite10]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

USCe or USCw?

USC Trojans

Probably the best linebacking corps in college football this year especially in blitzing situations.

Very good secondary. A lot of experience back there.

Defensive line is good, but not one of the best. Susceptible to a strong rushing attack, I suspect. But, that's a hard one to quantify because they really haven't faced one this year.

It's hard to say just how good they are, to be honest. If you look at the last half of their schedule this year they haven't faced anyone of note. Heck, the last good team they played was back in the beginning of October.

What makes you think they have the best LB corps in football if they haven't been able to play against top competition all year? The Pac10 is horrible this year. They got tOSU before Prior was experienced and with Wells injured.

I talk about the "eyeball" test and you sort of dismissed it. But you know how we know USC has a good defense? We've watched them all year. We know how big, fast, athletic and efficient they are just by watching them.

TCU has a defense that is as almost as good as USC. It is very close.

Now, disregarding TCU. How good is Bama's defense when compared to USC?

 

[Crimson Hawk]

TCU has a defense that is as almost as good as USC. It is very close.

Now, disregarding TCU. How good is Bama's defense when compared to USC?

I can't wait to hear this one! :lol:

 

[TerryP]

TerryP, Do you think USC has a good defense?

USCe or USCw?

USC Trojans

Probably the best linebacking corps in college football this year especially in blitzing situations.

Very good secondary. A lot of experience back there.

Defensive line is good, but not one of the best. Susceptible to a strong rushing attack, I suspect. But, that's a hard one to quantify because they really haven't faced one this year.

It's hard to say just how good they are, to be honest. If you look at the last half of their schedule this year they haven't faced anyone of note. Heck, the last good team they played was back in the beginning of October.

What makes you think they have the best LB corps in football if they haven't been able to play against top competition all year? The Pac10 is horrible this year. They got tOSU before Prior was experienced and with Wells injured.

I talk about the "eyeball" test and you sort of dismissed it. But you know how we know USC has a good defense? We've watched them all year. We know how big, fast, athletic and efficient they are just by watching them.

TCU has a defense that is as almost as good as USC. It is very close.

Now, disregarding TCU. How good is Bama's defense when compared to USC?

Oh, it was the eyeball test comment. I guess you didn't notice the emoticon.

I made the comments about their LB'ing corps for a specific reason. At the time they were recruited, we were VERY low on linebackers, didn't have a lot of talent in that position, and needed an influx of talent at that position.

Cushing caught my eye early on in his recruitment because Florida was after him very hard. We were also battling UF for a LB'er and I wondered if Cushing's visit would make him pause and consider the Gators.

Maiava is a guy I had some long, in-depth conversations about with a few Hawai'i guys I met when we played them. He was a guy that I was shocked they didn't hardly pursue, at all. He first caught my attention with his results at the NIKE camp when he was still in High School.

Maualuga? Again, conversations with one of our sports editors in Cali (work relationship) and someone I know that is within the program at USC.

You'll find, if you haven't already, I don't make comments without sufficient reason.

I've never discounted TCU's defense. I've never said they weren't good. The only comparison (repeating myself) that I've made is in their personnel groupings. But, beyond that, it's a different approach with our D compared to their D.

Apples vs Oranges in comparisons.

USC's defense vs our defense.

I'd rank our DL better, their LB'ers better, and their secondary better as well.

The LB'ers get the nod period. Their secondary, slightly, but mainly because of experience.

----

If the Pac-10 is horrible, who outside of your conference have you played? I guess we'll have to automatically dismiss Oregon State?

The Pac-10 is top heavy, as is the SEC. Their middle of the pack, in Pac-10 rankings terms, are decent football teams. The bottom of the pack is just that, the bottom of the pack..but, bottom across the board of the NCAA.

----

Call me obtuse, but I don't see where on earth anything I've said about TCU has a thing to do with USC, has a thing to do with our game (other than what I've said repeatedly,) or how it got in this thread.

 

[Guest]

"most services?"

Sorry.

none.

Smith is in his second season after converting from RB. He has played "ok." He would not make the 2 deep on half the teams in the SEC.

He has size.
He is athletic.

But to rate him as #3 at CB over guys who have played the position for years is silly. Most projections I have seen (pay sites) have him as a 5th rounder or even free agent. NFL draft scout has him projected as #3 in next year's class, based on his physical tools and another year of seasoning...right now - 5th round to free agent.

Those who are ranking him higher (3rd round - a few second) are doing so as a safety - his more natural position. He is a bit slow out of the backpedal and against NFL receivers he would get his lunch eaten...might happen against SEC receivers too - though he is pretty good at jamming people on the line, and that is something that gave Julio fits early in the season. It will be interesting to see how the other Bama receivers do...and our TE's.

JJ would be a first rounder.

There's one point where you and I are on opposite sides of the fence.

I look at the secondary, as a whole, from Utah and I see a group that would rank in the top half (probably top 1/3rd) of the SEC.

I realize where you are coming from, at least I believe I do, with your thoughts on their pass coverage. Yes, they have given up a lot of yards but that has to be weighed against the fact that they've played teams they are pass-heavy in scheme.

Sure, the actual numbers show one thing, but here's where another stat has to be brought into play as well; the efficiency numbers. They haven't given up a lot of big plays.

Across the board everyone in their secondary has picked a pass. Smith is the one that that leads that group with the most picks and (I'd have to look this one up to be sure) I believe he also leads the group in PBU's.

You know me and know that one thing I look at, and take seriously, is maturity. It's a veteran group in their secondary including their back-ups.

As to the SEC and where they would fall...

The only reason I'd say our group in the secondary is better than Utah's is Rashad. His knowledge of the defensive scheme is one thing that, in the SEC, is almost unparalleled.

SECW: I'd put Utah's group even with LSU, ahead of all the others.

{mentioning LSU...one thing that strikes me just now is one of the problems that group had this year was passing defense in their LB'ing corps...a problem I see with Utah as well.}

When I look at Utah's secondary, I see a team who has inflated stats from playing such a terrible slate. It does not do a lot of good hashing out stats because stats by bad teams that were accumulated against bad teams don't mean a whole lot.

Utah has had 379 passes attempted on them this year.

They have 17 interceptions - 5 were off of the arm of the BYU quarterback.

Utah played 4 teams ranked lower than 105 in passing offense. Passing efficiency is terrible as well...and that is in a bad conference.

It has often been said that what makes the SEC so difficult is that week in and week out you play tough teams and then the softer teams can sneak up on you. The MWC is the opposite. The conference is so bad that a team like Utah can sneak up on Oregon State. The more I have watched video and weighed individual performances and statistics, the more I see them as a paper tiger.

 

[TerryP]

I understand where you are coming from.

It's just one of those situations where we see that group differently. It isn't the first time we've looked at something differently, not even in the first 10X, and undoubtedly not the last.

 

[Guest]

I understand where you are coming from.

It's just one of those situations where we see that group differently. It isn't the first time we've looked at something differently, not even in the first 10X, and undoubtedly not the last.

Maybe this will be an Arkansas scenario

 

[TerryP]

I understand where you are coming from.

It's just one of those situations where we see that group differently. It isn't the first time we've looked at something differently, not even in the first 10X, and undoubtedly not the last.

Maybe this will be an Arkansas scenario

:lol:

We didn't disagree about the Arkie's.

If, perchance, they need a reference for that statement they can find two in Clemson, South Carolina.

I've seen the term "slug-fest" used to describe this game. In a sense, that is true if you consider the battles Cody and Luigs (and his guards) will face in the trenches.

However, that term will not be reflected on the scoreboard come mid-afternoon Saturday

From...

http://rolltidebama.com/blog/?p=55

 

[redandwhite10]

It does not do a lot of good hashing out stats because stats by bad teams that were accumulated against bad teams don't mean a whole lot.

I can understand you feeling like Utah isn't SEC caliber, but calling them a bad team? I don't think anyone in their right mind can look at a team that is 12-0 and call them bad. That's just asinine.

 

[Guest]

It does not do a lot of good hashing out stats because stats by bad teams that were accumulated against bad teams don't mean a whole lot.

I can understand you feeling like Utah isn't SEC caliber, but calling them a bad team? I don't think anyone in their right mind can look at a team that is 12-0 and call them bad. That's just asinine.

You need to go back and read earlier posts.

I was referring to the MWC as a whole, not Utah specifically. Utah is a good team...6 of the 9 MWC teams are significantly less than good.

 

[Sixpack]

The speed and agility won't come into play vs the running game, specifically between our tackles. The weak spot on their DL (no matter who it is) is their interior. The leading tacklers on the Utah team this year are their two DE's.

Small correction, the two DEs are #3 & #5 in tackles. Two LBs are the leading tacklers, but not by much. SS ties at #3.

If you compare w/ Alabamas leading tacklers who are a SS and LB, not much difference. Your #3 is a DE as well. You are also comparing and 3-4 to a 4-3. In a 3-4 your front 3 are primarily tasked with occupying blockers freeing up the 4 LBs. SS is also heavily utilized in the run oriented SEC as a essentially a fifth LB.

Cody clogs the middle by occupying blockers freeing you interior LBs and SS to make tackles.

Trying to compare the two is very difficult since they are philosophically different.

People often point to the BYU game that they ran over us. Had they lined up and made us stop the run we would have, but to beat BYU you have to stop the pass. They focus so much of their offense on passing we often were playing two deep cover. I can only think of a handful of plays we actually brought up the SS for run support, even though he was one of our best run defenders. Also we often played in a nickle formation, which is much weaker against the run. I've not seen Bama going to 4-5 WRs much so suspect you'll see less nickle and the SS up more.

The pass happy MWC can be very different to defend, only a few teams are very run oriented. Hence more stats for DBs rather than LBs. There's a reason that Big 10 LBs have unreal tackle numbers.

From that position I have a difficult time comparing the two teams.

 

[Sixpack]

Also someone commented that we'd faced teams ranked lower than 105 in passing, if I were from the SEC I wouldn't throw that out there since 6 of 12 teams are ranked 94th or worse. The two top teams are Georgia and Ark.

If you go by pass efficiency 5 of 12 are 100+ and 7 of 12 are 85+

The MWC had 2 at 100+ and 3 at 85+ in PEFF. On the flip side the MWC had 5 teams or better than half the conference at better than 50 and TCU at 57 for Pass Off.

This shows the apples to oranges comparison that I'm talking about.

Some here think that JJ will go off against Utah, I'll guarantee you we've seen receivers as good as JJ. I'm talking about JJ today not a year or two from now. Now some of you may think we've not seen great WR/TE we've had or played over the years, so here's a few names to think about, Steve Smith (Carolina), Kevin Dyson (Tenn.), Calvin Johnson, Chris Cooley.

I doubt JJ is that big of a concern. Your running game concerns me more, but I don't know how good the SEC is because of the lack of games with teams from the MWC, Big 12 and Pac-10.

I only can find 4 games matching up SEC teams with these conferences...

Tenn 24 UCLA 27
Tenn 7 Wyoming 13
Georgia 27 Arizona St. 10
Ark 10 Texas 52

The only team we have a link to in the SEC is Tenn because of common opponents from the league. BYU throtteled UCLA the week after the game above 59-0 and Wyoming who finished 1-7 in the MWC, while Tenn finished 3-5 in the SEC.

Now to not only pick on the SEC, the Big 12 gets the same treatment from me. I hate seeing games like the Citadell, Western Kentucky, Weber St, or Chattanoga on any schedules. The bowls will be a good measuring stick for this season, but it doesn't help for next year as we'll be in the same situation. BTW Utah had to pick up Weber St. after the Texas contract fell apart, thanks Urban. Just think if Texas had played and beat Utah this year they'd probably be playing against the Gators rather than the Fiesta Bowl.

 

[Guest]

The speed and agility won't come into play vs the running game, specifically between our tackles. The weak spot on their DL (no matter who it is) is their interior. The leading tacklers on the Utah team this year are their two DE's.

Small correction, the two DEs are #3 & #5 in tackles. Two LBs are the leading tacklers, but not by much. SS ties at #3.

If you compare w/ Alabamas leading tacklers who are a SS and LB, not much difference. Your #3 is a DE as well. You are also comparing and 3-4 to a 4-3. In a 3-4 your front 3 are primarily tasked with occupying blockers freeing up the 4 LBs. SS is also heavily utilized in the run oriented SEC as a essentially a fifth LB.

Cody clogs the middle by occupying blockers freeing you interior LBs and SS to make tackles.

Trying to compare the two is very difficult since they are philosophically different.

People often point to the BYU game that they ran over us. Had they lined up and made us stop the run we would have, but to beat BYU you have to stop the pass. They focus so much of their offense on passing we often were playing two deep cover. I can only think of a handful of plays we actually brought up the SS for run support, even though he was one of our best run defenders. Also we often played in a nickle formation, which is much weaker against the run. I've not seen Bama going to 4-5 WRs much so suspect you'll see less nickle and the SS up more.

The pass happy MWC can be very different to defend, only a few teams are very run oriented. Hence more stats for DBs rather than LBs. There's a reason that Big 10 LBs have unreal tackle numbers.

From that position I have a difficult time comparing the two teams.

Bah.

Giving up over 400 yards of offense is crap, no matter how you try to spin it.

We probably play more nickel than any team you have played all year, and are one of the best in the nation against the run. If your DL is undersized and your corners are soft, you will give up yards.

As for "pass happy MWC," Utah was passed on 50 fewer times than Alabama was this season.

A member of your secondary will probably be the leading tackler against us...and that will be a bad thing - RB Glen Coffee would be the strongest player on your team if he was a Ute.

 

[Sixpack]

Bah.

Giving up over 400 yards of offense is crap, no matter how you try to spin it.

We probably play more nickel than any team you have played all year, and are one of the best in the nation against the run. If your DL is undersized and your corners are soft, you will give up yards.

As for "pass happy MWC," Utah was passed on 50 fewer times than Alabama was this season.

A member of your secondary will probably be the leading tackler against us...and that will be a bad thing - RB Glen Coffee would be the strongest player on your team if he was a Ute.

Your post demonstrates how little you know Utah or western teams for that matter let alone the games they played...

See my above post on passing offenses...

You harp on a team giving up 400 yds, but they win 48-24 to a 10-2 team, yet you gave up 382 to a 7-5 LSU team in a win in overtime. Talk about double standard. Lets see BYU national ranking Total Offense #16, Pass Off #6 and Pass Eff #14, meanwhile LSU #55, #67 and #87 in the same catagories.

You claim you'll play more nickel than anyone we've faced lets see, TCU's base defense is nickle and only move to 4-3 in obvious running downs. Same with a number of MWC teams.

I seriously doubt a member of our secondary will be our leading tackler, but wouldn't that be the same as Bamas second leading tackler for the year. By your logic since your SS is #2 for your team I guess Bama is just crappy :roll:

About Coffee being the strongest player on our team, I thought he was being touted as the second strongest on your's, so I fail to see the slam. Besides I don't know his numbers so I have no comparison.

 

[SkinyUte]

Sixpack, you forgot the "all stats gained outside the SEC are either meaningless or artificially inflated" rule, which renders argument you could possibly make moot. :wink: :wink:

 

[TerryP]

The speed and agility won't come into play vs the running game, specifically between our tackles. The weak spot on their DL (no matter who it is) is their interior. The leading tacklers on the Utah team this year are their two DE's.

Small correction, the two DEs are #3 & #5 in tackles. Two LBs are the leading tacklers, but not by much. SS ties at #3.

If you compare w/ Alabamas leading tacklers who are a SS and LB, not much difference. Your #3 is a DE as well. You are also comparing and 3-4 to a 4-3. In a 3-4 your front 3 are primarily tasked with occupying blockers freeing up the 4 LBs. SS is also heavily utilized in the run oriented SEC as a essentially a fifth LB.

Cody clogs the middle by occupying blockers freeing you interior LBs and SS to make tackles.

Trying to compare the two is very difficult since they are philosophically different.

People often point to the BYU game that they ran over us. Had they lined up and made us stop the run we would have, but to beat BYU you have to stop the pass. They focus so much of their offense on passing we often were playing two deep cover. I can only think of a handful of plays we actually brought up the SS for run support, even though he was one of our best run defenders. Also we often played in a nickle formation, which is much weaker against the run. I've not seen Bama going to 4-5 WRs much so suspect you'll see less nickle and the SS up more.

The pass happy MWC can be very different to defend, only a few teams are very run oriented. Hence more stats for DBs rather than LBs. There's a reason that Big 10 LBs have unreal tackle numbers.

From that position I have a difficult time comparing the two teams.

http://www.crimsontusks.com/about35635.html