🏈 McCaffrey and Fournette skipped their bowl games-Critics said it would hurt them in the draft. Top 8

[Tidestalker]

As long as he's paying his own way, I'd agree. You want to sit your junior year? Sit in class, or at home. Not on the athletic departments dime.

Completely agree

 

[BamaFan334]

Completely agree

I agree with this as well. I think they should play of course, but as ling as they don't start the season, I'm ok with what TerryP said.

 

[Tidestalker]

Isn't the original question about quitting on a team in the season? Or, is it now about whether it'll impact draft status? Or, is it the Saban question about Miami?

Here's an all-encompassing answer. You can't compare a coach who left after the season to a kid who doesn't play in a bowl game, in the season, while under an agreement with the University to play football.

Now, if you want to say...compare Petrino and Atlanta to a kid sitting out the game because he had his eyes on something else besides what was required? I'd say we're closer.

The original question of the kid quitting on his team. Yes, it could be considered morally wrong. However, it's the proper choice. How's that for a mind bender?

The problem is that the NCAA is so twisted, that morality is diminished. Funny to see how people react when the NCAA goes from having total control over a student athlete to the athlete being empowered over their own potential. How many coaches/coordinators leave before a bowl game? Is it wrong? Yes. Do they do it anyway, of course. If you're team is the beneficiary of a great new coach it's all good! Yet the players are supposed to "stick it out"? Absolutely not. I think it's great when they do... But I think it's better when they maximize their financial potential.

You know exactly why I've equated the Saban to Miami example into the argument of why it's OK for kids to sit out their junior year. It's the most basic principle possible - Do what you think is best for you. Saban does it, the kids should as well.

I can't even remember the Petrino to Atlanta situation... But if it relates to the kids doing what's best for themselves, I'm all for it.

 

[TerryP]

The original question of the kid quitting on his team. Yes, it could be considered morally wrong. However, it's the proper choice. How's that for a mind bender?

Is it the proper choice to have a portion of the tuition, books, their 'stipend,' etc. deducted if they choose not to participate?

Now, add this to theoretical bullshit questions. Stanford isn't as quality of a team to watch without a player like McAffrey. So, with him sitting out, it stands to reason the network lost money. The school, and the University, lost valuable exposure. There's a loss of value ... policy?

 

[UAgrad93]

The original question of the kid quitting on his team. Yes, it could be considered morally wrong. However, it's the proper choice. How's that for a mind bender?

The problem is that the NCAA is so twisted, that morality is diminished. Funny to see how people react when the NCAA goes from having total control over a student athlete to the athlete being empowered over their own potential. How many coaches/coordinators leave before a bowl game? Is it wrong? Yes. Do they do it anyway, of course. If you're team is the beneficiary of a great new coach it's all good! Yet the players are supposed to "stick it out"? Absolutely not. I think it's great when they do... But I think it's better when they maximize their financial potential.

You know exactly why I've equated the Saban to Miami example into the argument of why it's OK for kids to sit out their junior year. It's the most basic principle possible - Do what you think is best for you. Saban does it, the kids should as well.

I can't even remember the Petrino to Atlanta situation... But if it relates to the kids doing what's best for themselves, I'm all for it.

13 games into his first year with the Atlanta Falcons, Petrino left like a fart in the wind to go to Arkansas.

 

[Tidestalker]

Is it the proper choice to have a portion of the tuition, books, their 'stipend,' etc. deducted if they choose not to participate?

Now, add this to theoretical bullshit questions. Stanford isn't as quality of a team to watch without a player like McAffrey. So, with him sitting out, it stands to reason the network lost money. The school, and the University, lost valuable exposure. There's a loss of value ... policy?

Yes. The kid should have 1/13th of his scholarship reduced in the second semester.

"Stanford isn't as quality of a team to watch without a player like McCaffrey", "There's a loss of value". IMAGINE IF HE NEVER WEN'T THERE. Does Stanford give him a "bonus" when they get more fans/ad money/merch sales on his Heisman campaign? I bet it's worth a little more than the couple grand that 1/14th of his scholarship covers, eh?

Again... We're dealing with the 1% of studs that these schools NEED, or WANT. They can pass on 5 stars if they're worried about sitting out seasons or games... But long run, they'll lose money. I bet they don't.

 

[TerryP]

They can pass on 5 stars if they're worried about sitting out seasons or games

With the current mindset of this team, it's a safe bet to say those would be passed on in Tuscaloosa. There's been a fair share of these highly ranked recruits that didn't "pass" their official visit.

 

[Tidestalker]

With the current mindset of this team, it's a safe bet to say those would be passed on in Tuscaloosa. There's been a fair share of these highly ranked recruits that didn't "pass" their official visit.

Possibly! But... All you've seen is the mindset of guys in the final 4. The real test will be if/when they're on the outside looking in.

BTW Saban offered McCaffrey. I doubt he would have passed on that commitment. Most certainly was all in on Fournette

 

[BamaFan334]

Possibly! But... All you've seen is the mindset of guys in the final 4. The real test will be if/when they're on the outside looking in.

BTW Saban offered McCaffrey. I doubt he would have passed on that commitment. Most certainly was all in on Fournette

McCaffrey was a four star by the way.

So what if they chose to sit out the Championship game? What if Henry, OJ, Ragland, Drake, Allen, Coker, A'Shawn, Cyrus, Griffith and Foster all decided to sit out against Clemson in 2016, simply to keep from getting injured? You're cool with all draft eligible Juniors and Seniors sitting out and not playing? So what happens when companies decide it's not worth their money to sponsor and fund bowls, the bowl system is done, and all of that money from bowl revenues vanishes and there isn't enough money to pay for scholarships, equipment, medical, and everything else that money goes for? A lot of questions you need to answer to still get the benefit of the doubt that it's cool for a guy to quit before bowl season.

 

[Tidestalker]

McCaffrey was a four star by the way.

So what if they chose to sit out the Championship game? What if Henry, OJ, Ragland, Drake, Allen, Coker, A'Shawn, Cyrus, Griffith and Foster all decided to sit out against Clemson in 2016, simply to keep from getting injured? You're cool with all draft eligible Juniors and Seniors sitting out and not playing? So what happens when companies decide it's not worth their money to sponsor and fund bowls, the bowl system is done, and all of that money from bowl revenues vanishes and there isn't enough money to pay for scholarships, equipment, medical, and everything else that money goes for? A lot of questions you need to answer to still get the benefit of the doubt that it's cool for a guy to quit before bowl season.

Then THE PLAYERS will be healthy for the draft.

The fans and universities will watch a game with good players, instead of great players. It doesn't matter if I'm "cool with it" or not.

Fans in general are more worried about their own entertainment value than the players doing what's best for themselves. When you type that whole hypothetical equation out, don't you look at it and say, "Damn the NCAA is ridiculous."? It's a crappy system with huge flaws in it that can capitalize greatly off of college kids talents. And believe me, there is no easy fix and I don't pretend to have one. But I'm all for the kids using whatever power is in their control to make the most for themselves.

 

[BamaFan334]

Then THE PLAYERS will be healthy for the draft.

The fans and universities will watch a game with good players, instead of great players. It doesn't matter if I'm "cool with it" or not.

Fans in general are more worried about their own entertainment value than the players doing what's best for themselves. When you type that whole hypothetical equation out, don't you look at it and say, "Damn the NCAA is ridiculous.". It's a crappy system with huge flaws in it that can capitalize greatly off of college kids talents. And believe me, there is no easy fix and don't pretend to have one. But I'm all for the kids using whatever power is in their control to make the most for themselves.

No shit, that's why we pay all the money we do to go see them and watch them play, for entertainment. No one is going to watch just good players. Maybe a few, but not many. I don't go to Braves games unless someone offers me tickets, mediocre team, so I don't pay or have any desire to go see them and shell out big money. Just look at attendance for schools like Kansas, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa State, Rutgers, and any other run of the mill school with only good players, not great players and tell me a school can survive off that in a conference full of those same teams, not being carried by an Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma etc. Put a conference worth of that kind of revenue together, and see if anyone wants to go see them play, pay the money that keeps the engines running.

People will always be profited off of, it's business. Even your Top 8 draft picks are being profited off of, even the owners of the NFL are being profited off of. The cycle never ends and everyone is used, so blaming the NCAA for making money is the most preposterous argument one can make. College players are being compensated, whether the check is bypassing them to pay for everything, or whether they're made responsible with paying everything while being given money through their scholarship. That's a fact, they're getting something for their time, just like a job. My guess is you don't do you AAU and coaching for free (if you do, more power to you, very honorable), so technically you're profiting off your players and so are AAU leagues. It happens, and it's the way of the world and business, no side stepping that. So please quit using that to defend your stance.

 

[Tidestalker]

No ****, that's why we pay all the money we do to go see them and watch them play, for entertainment. No one is going to watch just good players. Maybe a few, but not many. I don't go to Braves games unless someone offers me tickets, mediocre team, so I don't pay or have any desire to go see them and shell out big money. Just look at attendance for schools like Kansas, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa State, Rutgers, and any other run of the mill school with only good players, not great players and tell me a school can survive off that in a conference full of those same teams, not being carried by an Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma etc. Put a conference worth of that kind of revenue together, and see if anyone wants to go see them play, pay the money that keeps the engines running.

People will always be profited off of, it's business. Even your Top 8 draft picks are being profited off of, even the owners of the NFL are being profited off of. The cycle never ends and everyone is used, so blaming the NCAA for making money is the most preposterous argument one can make. College players are being compensated, whether the check is bypassing them to pay for everything, or whether they're made responsible with paying everything while being given money through their scholarship. That's a fact, they're getting something for their time, just like a job. My guess is you don't do you AAU and coaching for free (if you do, more power to you, very honorable), so technically you're profiting off your players and so are AAU leagues. It happens, and it's the way of the world and business, no side stepping that. So please quit using that to defend your stance.

You're making all the right arguments, and saying all the right things IMO. EXCEPT - when you say "Blaming the NCAA for making money is the most preposterous argument one can make".

1. Who's blaming them? I've pointed out the system is ridiculous... And it is... Because of issues like the one we're discussing. But mostly because of Title 9... Which is a whole other topic.

2. You've made all the free market type of arguments but for some reason have a hard time digesting why a player would leverage his power, or resources, to get the most for himself. Fighting it tooth and nail.

You're completely contradicting yourself.

 

[BamaFan334]

You're making all the right arguments, and saying all the right things IMO. EXCEPT - when you say "Blaming the NCAA for making money is the most preposterous argument one can make".

1. Who's blaming them? I've pointed out the system is ridiculous... And it is... Because of issues like the one we're discussing. But mostly because of Title 9... Which is a whole other topic.

2. You've made all the free market type of arguments but for some reason have a hard time digesting why a player would leverage his power, or resources, to get the most for himself. Fighting it tooth and nail.

You're completely contradicting yourself.

I brought up the NCAA because there was a comment made about the NCAA making money off these players and these players not getting paid. That's why I ran off on that little tangent.

They can leverage their power, but once they start they should be forced to finish, or take their funding away from them. The school made an investment in you, and should be forced to live up to the contract you signed. I'm not even so sure I agree with 1/13th of their scholarship being revoked, since it's the post season that makes as much as the regular season. It's all business and quitting is doing an injustice to so many. We've talked about how small a percentage of injuries have occurred in the last bowl game of an athlete, and I'm sure the percentage is even more that a draft slide could happen based on the human element of a GM and a ton of other deciding factors like combine testing, Pro Day testing, normal life in between the season and the draft. Anything can happen, but I don't see these guys hiding in a room in order to protect their futures. They still go work out and they can get hurt training. So to say marginalize your chances of getting hurt where you can basically makes no sense because they are still volunteering their bodies to the wear and tear of training and all of the possibilities. Joe McKnight I think it was, working out and a bar falls on his throat almost killing him.

 

[TerryP]

Derrick Henry is still taking classes.

 

[planomateo]

Bingo...but lets throw out some bullshit that's "common sense" that "many" don't get their degree after leaving early...

 

[BamaFan334]

Bingo...but lets throw out some bullshit that's "common sense" that "many" don't get their degree after leaving early...

Feel free to prove it's bullshit by showing more than two or even twenty that go back. No one said "zero" go back. It was simply stated not a lot.

N.B.A. Players Make Their Way Back to College

Decent article. I admit, more than I thought, but still a small percentage of those that leave school early. This does not even count those that go to D-League, overseas, or simply don't make it.

 

[alagator]

Feel free to prove it's bullshit by showing more than two or even twenty that go back. No one said "zero" go back. It was simply stated not a lot.

N.B.A. Players Make Their Way Back to College

Decent article. I admit, more than I thought, but still a small percentage of those that leave school early. This does not even count those that go to D-League, overseas, or simply don't make it.

You're bringing basketball numbers into a football conversation, aren't you? The two simply aren't comparable.

 

[BamaFan334]

You're bringing basketball numbers into a football conversation, aren't you? The two simply aren't comparable.

How is that not comparable to the conversation? It was brought up by another member that they believe a guy should be able to go pro right out of high school in any sport. I used this article to bring in how basketball players are failing and some, yet not many are coming back. It was also discussed in this article the number of football players that go back to school, so it correlates to this thread just fine. My main focus was to prove that just because Derrick and Ha Ha came back doesn't mean a ton of guys around the country are doing the same, and when their professional careers are over, they do not have the education to get a real job and most don't come back to school. Therefor, leaving early can hinder life after football or any other sport if you weren't mature or educated enough to manage your money correctly.

"Their retirement years can be completely different. An estimated 60 percent of N.B.A. players are broke within five years of retiring, and 78 percent of N.F.L. players are bankrupt or under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce within two years, according to a report by Sports Illustrated in March. The magazine also reported that many baseball players struggle financially after retirement."

The Longest Professional Sports Careers – The Roosevelts
The average playing career for an NFL players is 3.5 years, the average MLB career is 5.6 years, the average NBA career is 4.8 years, and the average NHL career is 5.5 years.

With those short averages, add the years after retirement and a lot of these guys aren't even 30 before they are broke. This was all I was trying to say.

 

[alagator]

How is that not comparable to the conversation? It was brought up by another member that they believe a guy should be able to go pro right out of high school in any sport

I read right over that. I'd bet the same guy says there are players that aren't ready for SEC play each year.

 

[RTB X Bot]