🏈 Jalen or Tua? Bobby Bowden says 'Nick can't go wrong'

[mando]

Where are the passing lanes?

@TerryP I am a big Jalen fan and he is a winner and nothing but a class kid. I am curious however why you think he shouldn't throw the ball over the top into the end zone since there is no safety in the middle or at least I did not see one? Not saying put a lot of air on the ball but enough to get it over the LB. To me he could which would be the answer to your passing lane question.

Because it's a 15 yard throw he's going to have to loop over the linebackers. There is no window there. You've got a SAM sitting there spying on Jalen and the left corner, in coverage, crossing the route Calvin is running.
<img alt="" src="https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.567420689.0744/pp,650x642-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg" style="width: 75px; height: 100px;" />

I guess I would need to see more of the field to see if the over the top throw was risky or not. Hard to tell but with just one image it looks possible. None of us know what is being said in the film room that could effect the decision making.

BTW not wanting to get into the Jalen vs Tua debate to me it is not productive. My personal opinion is we have two great QB's and will win with either. I just love the class both show and they represent Bama in a first class way. As stated by many #BamaProblems.

I would not write Jalen off either. He is a great athlete, leader and competitor. He is most certainly working his butt off to improve in areas he needs to improve. I assume Tua is doing the same because he has flaws also we just have not seen enough of his play after SEC DC's have tape on him to understand them.

 

[Tidestalker]

You seem to take the #2 vs #13 personal. #2 is maxed out as a QB.

I don't see this as he does...

I'm done with this argument, personally.

...not argument. Not personal, either. Fascinating with no doubt.

You say "#2 is maxed at as QB" when Saban says "Jalen is improving."

I do take things literally and disagree with your statement. If Saban is saying he's improving, we've seen improvement, others have commented he's improving, it leads me to say don't write off Jalen.

No, Terry... I hear ya. Loud and clear. You're saying there's no "open lane". Who needs a lane when the entire backside of the field is wide open and the receiver has split the 2 defenders by 15 yards? Do you need a lane throw it over someone?

I don't need to. Where's the left corner? Crossing the pattern. Who needs a window? He's lofting the ball to hit that area or it's a jump and toss. Either way, it's a floater. As soon as that decision is made two are coming in on the play, the aforementioned LCB and the SAM along with one of their safeties.

Watch the SAM and safety--both are retreating on the play until Jalen starts to scramble. I see that. Jalen evidently saw that. Have you watched the other personnel? Evidently no because you're not considering them. Seriously. It's almost as if you think Dorian O'Daniel is another Vinnie Sunseri in pass coverage. He's far, far from...

Notice, he (CR) isn't even in his cut yet.

View attachment 9257
This wide open notion falls apart when you're looking at the entire field and watching what the others are doing.

Something tells me Jalen has watched enough film on Clemson that he knew where those guys were likely headed. He's always been a film room guy. But that's just speculation.

Terry.... Man..... I have no idea what you're talking about.

You really believe that these 2 defenders that are standing flat ass footed are going to turn and catch Calvin Ridley out of his break while running rull speed?! He's BEHIND THEM!

And your LCB post falls on def ears when you watch the video and see the LCB is on the OUTSIDE of our other receiver, meaning our other receiver is basically boxing him out despite the fact that he's far as hell away anyway.

Kind of funny to look at that picture perfect pocket with Ridley breaking wide open in the middle of the field and then see Jalen ending the play in a scramble... to his right. Talk about taking the long way home.

 

[T&B]

Try your best to put your bias aside, and watch both of these highlight reels one after the other.

The fact that you can claim that others have "bias" and you don't is so freaking ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

I don't have a favorite. In fact I wish Hurts was better than Tua. We likely would have won a title his first year.

Fact is he is nowhere near Tua.

That's not a bias it's a fact.

What's funny is your inability to process what you see with your own eyes.

The FACT that you claim your opinion is a fact, is proof of your bias...

It's not my opinion. It is an actual fact ! :lol:

Better:

1. of a more excellent or effective type or quality.
2. more excellently or effectively.
3. the better one; that which is better.

QB play in first half (Hurts) was abysmal. QB play in second half was nothing short of miraculous. (Tua)

By definition one is better than the other.

 

[JoshB]

Try your best to put your bias aside, and watch both of these highlight reels one after the other.

The fact that you can claim that others have "bias" and you don't is so freaking ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

I don't have a favorite. In fact I wish Hurts was better than Tua. We likely would have won a title his first year.

Fact is he is nowhere near Tua.

That's not a bias it's a fact.

What's funny is your inability to process what you see with your own eyes.

The FACT that you claim your opinion is a fact, is proof of your bias...

It's not my opinion. It is an actual fact ! :lol:

Better:

1. of a more excellent or effective type or quality.
2. more excellently or effectively.
3. the better one; that which is better.

QB play in first half (Hurts) was abysmal. QB play in second half was nothing short of miraculous. (Tua)

By definition one is better than the other.

fact

fakt/

noun

1. a thing that is indisputably the case.

You seriously should have just stopped at your definition of better, because you just tried to attempt to base who is or isn't the better QB on a single half of football. There have been a TON of silly opinions in this thread but that be the most ridiculous.

 

[T&B]

Try your best to put your bias aside, and watch both of these highlight reels one after the other.

The fact that you can claim that others have "bias" and you don't is so freaking ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

I don't have a favorite. In fact I wish Hurts was better than Tua. We likely would have won a title his first year.

Fact is he is nowhere near Tua.

That's not a bias it's a fact.

What's funny is your inability to process what you see with your own eyes.

The FACT that you claim your opinion is a fact, is proof of your bias...

It's not my opinion. It is an actual fact ! :lol:

Better:

1. of a more excellent or effective type or quality.
2. more excellently or effectively.
3. the better one; that which is better.

QB play in first half (Hurts) was abysmal. QB play in second half was nothing short of miraculous. (Tua)

By definition one is better than the other.

fact

fakt/

noun

1. a thing that is indisputably the case.

You seriously should have just stopped at your definition of better, because you just tried to attempt to base who is or isn't the better QB on a single half of football. There have been a TON of silly opinions in this thread but that be the most ridiculous.

Try your best to put your bias aside, and watch both of these highlight reels one after the other.

The fact that you can claim that others have "bias" and you don't is so freaking ironic that it's not even funny anymore.

I don't have a favorite. In fact I wish Hurts was better than Tua. We likely would have won a title his first year.

Fact is he is nowhere near Tua.

That's not a bias it's a fact.

What's funny is your inability to process what you see with your own eyes.

The FACT that you claim your opinion is a fact, is proof of your bias...

It's not my opinion. It is an actual fact ! :lol:

Better:

1. of a more excellent or effective type or quality.
2. more excellently or effectively.
3. the better one; that which is better.

QB play in first half (Hurts) was abysmal. QB play in second half was nothing short of miraculous. (Tua)

By definition one is better than the other.

fact

fakt/

noun

1. a thing that is indisputably the case.

You seriously should have just stopped at your definition of better, because you just tried to attempt to base who is or isn't the better QB on a single half of football. There have been a TON of silly opinions in this thread but that be the most ridiculous.

Tua is definitely "indisputably" "better" than Hurts. lol What evidence is there to the contrary ? Everything points to Tua being the future.

 

[Max]

You seem to take the #2 vs #13 personal. #2 is maxed out as a QB.

I don't see this as he does...

I'm done with this argument, personally.

...not argument. Not personal, either. Fascinating with no doubt.

You say "#2 is maxed at as QB" when Saban says "Jalen is improving."

I do take things literally and disagree with your statement. If Saban is saying he's improving, we've seen improvement, others have commented he's improving, it leads me to say don't write off Jalen.

No, Terry... I hear ya. Loud and clear. You're saying there's no "open lane". Who needs a lane when the entire backside of the field is wide open and the receiver has split the 2 defenders by 15 yards? Do you need a lane throw it over someone?

I don't need to. Where's the left corner? Crossing the pattern. Who needs a window? He's lofting the ball to hit that area or it's a jump and toss. Either way, it's a floater. As soon as that decision is made two are coming in on the play, the aforementioned LCB and the SAM along with one of their safeties.

Watch the SAM and safety--both are retreating on the play until Jalen starts to scramble. I see that. Jalen evidently saw that. Have you watched the other personnel? Evidently no because you're not considering them. Seriously. It's almost as if you think Dorian O'Daniel is another Vinnie Sunseri in pass coverage. He's far, far from...

Notice, he (CR) isn't even in his cut yet.

View attachment 9257
This wide open notion falls apart when you're looking at the entire field and watching what the others are doing.

Something tells me Jalen has watched enough film on Clemson that he knew where those guys were likely headed. He's always been a film room guy. But that's just speculation.

Terry.... Man..... I have no idea what you're talking about.

You really believe that these 2 defenders that are standing flat ass footed are going to turn and catch Calvin Ridley out of his break while running rull speed?! He's BEHIND THEM!

And your LCB post falls on def ears when you watch the video and see the LCB is on the OUTSIDE of our other receiver, meaning our other receiver is basically boxing him out despite the fact that he's far as hell away anyway.

Kind of funny to look at that picture perfect pocket with Ridley breaking wide open in the middle of the field and then see Jalen ending the play in a scramble... to his right. Talk about taking the long way home.

You've just proven you haven't watched the video. There's no telling where you're getting your opinions from because the same video you suggested be watched again shows them retreating. The picture he posted shows the safety retreating.

Are you going to suggest a pass there from any other quarterback if say CJ Mosely were that linebacker or Eddie Jackson were that safety? No. You would not because you know their closing speeds.

I agree with the statement earlier. It's almost like you think Clemson's defenders are on par with the Citadel.

You claim a picture perfect pocket when there's evidence in this thread there are no passing lanes. That's not a picture perfect anything.

He's behind them in the picture. Correct. Go forward a few frames and you see them on the goal line and CR cutting a few yards deep. You're ignoring the greater point of the decision being made.

You're refusing to just admit you're not looking at this without prejudice even when your flaws are proven to be just that, flaws.

That's how you present yourself in my view.

 

[TerryP]

Terry.... Man..... I have no idea what you're talking about.

The defense is moving into a package...it's "cover 3 man."

 

[TUSKtimes]

The defense is moving into a package...it's "cover 3 man."

And I see you've moved into your package as well.......argumentative.

 

[TerryP]

The defense is moving into a package...it's "cover 3 man."

And I see you've moved into your package as well.......argumentative.

Because
...
evidence has been submitted? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TUSKtimes]

Because
...
evidence has been submitted? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I rest my case.

 

[Tidestalker]

You seem to take the #2 vs #13 personal. #2 is maxed out as a QB.

I don't see this as he does...

I'm done with this argument, personally.

...not argument. Not personal, either. Fascinating with no doubt.

You say "#2 is maxed at as QB" when Saban says "Jalen is improving."

I do take things literally and disagree with your statement. If Saban is saying he's improving, we've seen improvement, others have commented he's improving, it leads me to say don't write off Jalen.

No, Terry... I hear ya. Loud and clear. You're saying there's no "open lane". Who needs a lane when the entire backside of the field is wide open and the receiver has split the 2 defenders by 15 yards? Do you need a lane throw it over someone?

I don't need to. Where's the left corner? Crossing the pattern. Who needs a window? He's lofting the ball to hit that area or it's a jump and toss. Either way, it's a floater. As soon as that decision is made two are coming in on the play, the aforementioned LCB and the SAM along with one of their safeties.

Watch the SAM and safety--both are retreating on the play until Jalen starts to scramble. I see that. Jalen evidently saw that. Have you watched the other personnel? Evidently no because you're not considering them. Seriously. It's almost as if you think Dorian O'Daniel is another Vinnie Sunseri in pass coverage. He's far, far from...

Notice, he (CR) isn't even in his cut yet.

View attachment 9257
This wide open notion falls apart when you're looking at the entire field and watching what the others are doing.

Something tells me Jalen has watched enough film on Clemson that he knew where those guys were likely headed. He's always been a film room guy. But that's just speculation.

Terry.... Man..... I have no idea what you're talking about.

You really believe that these 2 defenders that are standing flat ass footed are going to turn and catch Calvin Ridley out of his break while running rull speed?! He's BEHIND THEM!

And your LCB post falls on def ears when you watch the video and see the LCB is on the OUTSIDE of our other receiver, meaning our other receiver is basically boxing him out despite the fact that he's far as hell away anyway.

Kind of funny to look at that picture perfect pocket with Ridley breaking wide open in the middle of the field and then see Jalen ending the play in a scramble... to his right. Talk about taking the long way home.

You've just proven you haven't watched the video. There's no telling where you're getting your opinions from because the same video you suggested be watched again shows them retreating. The picture he posted shows the safety retreating.

Are you going to suggest a pass there from any other quarterback if say CJ Mosely were that linebacker or Eddie Jackson were that safety? No. You would not because you know their closing speeds.

I agree with the statement earlier. It's almost like you think Clemson's defenders are on par with the Citadel.

You claim a picture perfect pocket when there's evidence in this thread there are no passing lanes. That's not a picture perfect anything.

He's behind them in the picture. Correct. Go forward a few frames and you see them on the goal line and CR cutting a few yards deep. You're ignoring the greater point of the decision being made.

You're refusing to just admit you're not looking at this without prejudice even when your flaws are proven to be just that, flaws.

That's how you present yourself in my view.

Wrong.

If I had any technological skills I would take the screen shot at 36:06 and laugh at your ass for the LB's "dropping in coverage". You're kidding. Can see a perfect pocket, Ridley wide open 6-8 yards behind the LBS's, in between 2 secondary defenders about 20+ yards apart.

If I'm prejudice you are blind. If you're sad about the stats I posted, get over it... I even left the Auburn game out for the real sensitive folks.

 

[JoseyWalesTheOutlaw]

I am glad #2 is returning (I assume he doesn't pull a Blake Barnett later) for this season. His ability to make shet happen with his feet is a great weapon to have. I am hopeful that #13 is a hard worker on and off the filed and if he can continue to get better the Tide is in a great spot to be really good football team. Watch the 1st half of Bama vs UGA and then the 2nd and you see two completely different offensive football teams. #13 makes every skill position player for the offense a threat.

 

[mrchase]

We are one defensive stop in Clemson #2 and one thank god Ridley stole that pass on 4th and 8 against UGA from all of this actually playing out on the field and not on this board.

 

[mrchase]

And why is there an argument about a play that resulted in a touchdown......

 

[Max]

Wrong.

If I had any technological skills I would take the screen shot at 36:06 and laugh at your ass for the LB's "dropping in coverage". Y

If you had watched the video you would see you'd be laughing your ass off at yourself. Because, your just grossly wrong.

Here's two pictures. One showing the linebackers retreating the other (only two seconds later) where they are inside the five headed to the goal line. You can see the safeties foot in the bottom right. Jalen isn't scrambling yet and Clemson is in pass coverage.

The play is happening exactly how it has been described here. You have the pictures in front of you. But, too damn hard headed to admit your wrong.

I rest my case.

proceed to jail.





View attachment 9259View attachment 9258

 

[Tidestalker]

Wrong.

If I had any technological skills I would take the screen shot at 36:06 and laugh at your ass for the LB's "dropping in coverage". Y

If you had watched the video you would see you'd be laughing your ass off at yourself. Because, your just grossly wrong.

Here's two pictures. One showing the linebackers retreating the other (only two seconds later) where they are inside the five headed to the goal line. You can see the safeties foot in the bottom right. Jalen isn't scrambling yet and Clemson is in pass coverage.

The play is happening exactly how it has been described here. You have the pictures in front of you. But, too damn hard headed to admit your wrong.

I rest my case.

proceed to jail.

View attachment 9260

View attachment 9261

View attachment 9259View attachment 9258

You're high man!

Show the screen shot at 36:06. Just because you and Terry use a picture of line backers with edited arrows going backwards doesn't mean they actually went backwards. Not to mention the LCB with the arrow to the middle was still on the outside of our own receiver. LMAO.

I may have to google how to screen shot... Fake news all over this thread. RTR though!

 

[Tidestalker]

This is your LB's "Dropping into coverage"?! C'mon now....

And that LCB? Foster has a better chance of catching an errant throw than him. SMH

 

[JoshB]

And why is there an argument about a play that resulted in a touchdown......

Because the notion that Jalen made a good play kills certain people entire agenda. We've seen a very vocal portion of this fan base demanding Tua be No. 1 since the very minute he walked onto campus (and especially sine the 2017 A-Day). Those people will never, ever let that go no matter what and God forbid if Jalen DOES end up being named starter. We've already seen experts on here claiming that it will prove that arguably the greatest coach in the history of college football is "out of touch" (less than a year after winning a national championship mind you).

 

[T&B]

This is your LB's "Dropping into coverage"?! C'mon now....

And that LCB? Foster has a better chance of catching an errant throw than him. SMH

View attachment 9264

Tua would be on time, on target, and there would be zero hesitation with a receiver that wide open. Hahaha

Hell the ball Tua got to Ruggs in the title game was fit into a window nowhere near that size. lol

The receiver is Wide Open. You cant ask for a more wide open receiver than that. hhahaaahha

If Tua was in on this play the ball would literally already be in the WR's hands. Literally.

 

[Tidestalker]

And why is there an argument about a play that resulted in a touchdown......

Because the notion that Jalen made a good play kills certain people entire agenda. We've seen a very vocal portion of this fan base demanding Tua be No. 1 since the very minute he walked onto campus (and especially sine the 2017 A-Day). Those people will never, ever let that go no matter what and God forbid if Jalen DOES end up being named starter. We've already seen experts on here claiming that it will prove that arguably the greatest coach in the history of college football is "out of touch" (less than a year after winning a national championship mind you).

Hey, it's the guy who proclaimed to move on from the subject! A man of his word I see.

Jokes aside, get back to the basic conversation/debate that the play started with. Jalen struggles to anticipate a receiver getting open and obviously has trouble stepping up into the pocket and making downfield throws consistently. More than not, he prefers escaping to his right to the sideline. The debate started when a couple posters claimed there was no "window" to throw the ball into, and that LB's "dropped into coverage" and the LCB was a threat, while the above picture clearly proves otherwise. QB just couldn't pull the trigger on a perfectly called and executed route.

The idea is that it may be helpful to the offense to have QB that can make the wide open throw, on time and on target, as the play is designed as opposed to escaping straight right to the sideline. Seems as if that is a better and more efficient way to break down good/great defenses, as we saw in the National Championship game.

A couple shorter answers to why the play is being broken down so much:

1. This is an Alabama football forum. We are talking about Alabama football.

2. It's the offseason. If you or the other dude has a better topic, bring it to the table.