🏈 But they didn't win their conference...

[TerryP]

...and no disrespect meant to the ND poster. I am sure that I will be called an arrogant Bama homer, but this is just my opinion. Having watched ND play multiple games this season, and having watched every Bama game (and multiple UGA games), I think Bama or UGA will beat them comfortably. ND doesn't have the offensive horsepower to exploit Bama or UGA's weaknesses. ND is solid on defense, but Bama or UGA will be the best offense they have faced in terms of skill, physicality, and balance. Bama is fully capable of exploiting the ND secondary, and the Bama OL + RB's are fully capable of establishing the run. ND will have a ton of 3 & outs on offense, and their defense will tire from the pressure Bama puts on them. The Bama play action passing game will be the back breaker. ND will not be able to stop the run without loading the box - and if they do, they will give up big plays through the air. If Bama averages 4.5+ ypc (I think we will), we win by 21. If we beat UGA, I think the ND game will resemble our game against Mississippi State (slightly closer). I think MSU and ND are comparable teams. ND has a bit more star power on D, but a ND/MSU game would be good.

ND has given up 2 Rushing TD's on the season. Bama or UGA match that in the first half. UGA worries me a LOT more than ND.

Assuming we get past UGA we can talk about this post for four weeks or so.

For right now, I'll just say this.

I'm more impressed with Notre Dame than you are. I see a few things that are worth being wary.

From game one to week 13 Golson has improved as much, probably more, than any other QB in the nation. A true dual threat.

 

[Irish#1]

...and no disrespect meant to the ND poster. I am sure that I will be called an arrogant Bama homer, but this is just my opinion. Having watched ND play multiple games this season, and having watched every Bama game (and multiple UGA games), I think Bama or UGA will beat them comfortably. ND doesn't have the offensive horsepower to exploit Bama or UGA's weaknesses. ND is solid on defense, but Bama or UGA will be the best offense they have faced in terms of skill, physicality, and balance. Bama is fully capable of exploiting the ND secondary, and the Bama OL + RB's are fully capable of establishing the run. ND will have a ton of 3 & outs on offense, and their defense will tire from the pressure Bama puts on them. The Bama play action passing game will be the back breaker. ND will not be able to stop the run without loading the box - and if they do, they will give up big plays through the air. If Bama averages 4.5+ ypc (I think we will), we win by 21. If we beat UGA, I think the ND game will resemble our game against Mississippi State (slightly closer). I think MSU and ND are comparable teams. ND has a bit more star power on D, but a ND/MSU game would be good.

ND has given up 2 Rushing TD's on the season. Bama or UGA match that in the first half. UGA worries me a LOT more than ND.

Fair enough and here's my counter.
Go back and watch the ND games, particularly from Stanford on. ND has a very good passing attack. It's just that once Kelly establishes the lead, he starts grinding it out. Plus Golsen is very mobile and has been making plays with his legs when the pass isn't there. Kelly will open up the passing game anytime he needs it. The comeback against Pitt was all passing. I would also say that Oklahoma's offense is comparable to Bama's or Georgia. I don't know if Bama can run on the Irish or not, but Stanford and Pitt who are good running teams couldn't and neither could Oklahoma. OU fans were on an Irish forum saying they would kill us with their run game and play action with Landry. I would venture to say Stanford's run game is superior to Bama's.

ND rotates the D-line so I don't think condition will be a factor. Go read about "Longo Beach". Paul Longo is the strength and conditioning coach Kelly brought with him from Cincy. There may be teams as well conditioned as ND, but none better. The change in the team from two years ago to now is unbelieveable and one reason ND is undefeated. That's how you win those close games at the end. As far as the DB's, they may get burned, but the improvement from the beginning of the year to now is night and day. They did quite well against argueably the best two receivers (USC) in the country. They're freshmen and will only get better.

The only thing I take offense to is your comparison of ND to MSU. That tells me you really don't know that much about ND even though you've watched them several times.

I feel confident that ND can go toe to toe with Bama and UG and hold their own. The one thing ND has this year, is the "it" factor and their spritual leader Manti Teo. This team reminds me so much of Ara's teams (yes I'm that old. lol) and you guys know how they played. Good Luck Saturday.

 

[Southern Bama]

I too am impressed with Golson and Teo. ND is hungry also.....which reminds me of our 1992 and 2009 teams.

 

[Big_Fan]

Feel free to take offense, ND doesn't have much of one. Your comparison of the Bama run game to Stanford is far worse. Stanford doesn't have an offensive lineman that would start for Bama. SJSU couldn't hold Bama to 37 yards rushing if we started our scout team. wsu held Stanford to 120. Our worst rushing game was against a bowl bound ole miss team, and it was 28-7 at the half.
ND has a decent defense, but you have not played a team with an OL remotely as physical...or receivers that block as well as catch.

Fair enough and here's my counter.
Go back and watch the ND games, particularly from Stanford on. ND has a very good passing attack. It's just that once Kelly establishes the lead, he starts grinding it out. Plus Golsen is very mobile and has been making plays with his legs when the pass isn't there. Kelly will open up the passing game anytime he needs it. The comeback against Pitt was all passing. I would also say that Oklahoma's offense is comparable to Bama's or Georgia. I don't know if Bama can run on the Irish or not, but Stanford and Pitt who are good running teams couldn't and neither could Oklahoma. OU fans were on an Irish forum saying they would kill us with their run game and play action with Landry. I would venture to say Stanford's run game is superior to Bama's.

ND rotates the D-line so I don't think condition will be a factor. Go read about "Longo Beach". Paul Longo is the strength and conditioning coach Kelly brought with him from Cincy. There may be teams as well conditioned as ND, but none better. The change in the team from two years ago to now is unbelieveable and one reason ND is undefeated. That's how you win those close games at the end. As far as the DB's, they may get burned, but the improvement from the beginning of the year to now is night and day. They did quite well against argueably the best two receivers (USC) in the country. They're freshmen and will only get better.

The only thing I take offense to is your comparison of ND to MSU. That tells me you really don't know that much about ND even though you've watched them several times.

I feel confident that ND can go toe to toe with Bama and UG and hold their own. The one thing ND has this year, is the "it" factor and their spritual leader Manti Teo. This team reminds me so much of Ara's teams (yes I'm that old. lol) and you guys know how they played. Good Luck Saturday.

 

[TerryP]

Feel free to take offense, ND doesn't have much of one. Your comparison of the Bama run game to Stanford is far worse. Stanford doesn't have an offensive lineman that would start for Bama. SJSU couldn't hold Bama to 37 yards rushing if we started our scout team. wsu held Stanford to 120. Our worst rushing game was against a bowl bound ole miss team, and it was 28-7 at the half.
ND has a decent defense, but you have not played a team with an OL remotely as physical...or receivers that block as well as catch.

If we had their center we wouldn't be starting Barrett at C. That's my opinion, but also one shared by a certain ex-Bama QB now residing in the Jets camp.

---

And hey, D.

"Feel free to take offense?" Come on man, show a little hospitality.

 

[XXL TideFan]

As a Bama fan, there isn't anyone that I would rather beat to win the crystal ball. I have only seen them play once, the USC game. I was shocked, not that they won but at the manner in which they won. I thought that Kelly was one of those spread 'em out and sling types. Here they were playing the type of football that we like. Gonna be a good game, just gotta beat the dawgs first.

 

[Big_Fan]

If we had their center we wouldn't be starting Barrett at C. That's my opinion, but also one shared by a certain ex-Bama QB now residing in the Jets camp.

---

And hey, D.

"Feel free to take offense?" Come on man, show a little hospitality.

schwartz is the best ol they have, but I wouldn't trade Jones for him. Greg isn't exactly unbiased considering where Shwartz went to HS - and he didn't take snaps from Jones.

As for the offense comment... I guess you didn't see what I did there.

 

[TerryP]

schwartz is the best ol they have, but I wouldn't trade Jones for him. Greg isn't exactly unbiased considering where Shwartz went to HS - and he didn't take snaps from Jones.

As for the offense comment... I guess you didn't see what I did there.

I didn't miss anything. The play on words was evident.

I'd dare say that Greg has a pretty damn good eye for what it takes to be a center in the collegiate ranks. I'm sure there is some bias, but I'm also remembering comments about the kid being overlooked when evaluated. At that school, in that region, it's more than common.

I made my comment about hospitality based on knowing you. I can feel the excitement you have thinking about the possibility of facing Notre Dame. I have had conversations with you about them before.

I'm not saying it's a mindset on the level of your feelings about Arkansas. But, I'd dare say it's probably pretty damn close.

Irish seems like a guy we can talk about the seventies with...assuming we get past UGA.

And, that's something I look forward to doing.

I said weeks ago this is the game I wanted as a fan. I hope to see it happen.

 

[Irish#1]

Feel free to take offense, ND doesn't have much of one. Your comparison of the Bama run game to Stanford is far worse. Stanford doesn't have an offensive lineman that would start for Bama. SJSU couldn't hold Bama to 37 yards rushing if we started our scout team. wsu held Stanford to 120. Our worst rushing game was against a bowl bound ole miss team, and it was 28-7 at the half.
ND has a decent defense, but you have not played a team with an OL remotely as physical...or receivers that block as well as catch.

You dismiss Stanford too easily. I know how good Bama's o-line is, but Stanford's isn't that far behind. If you want to believe ND doesn't have an offense that's fine. When you start talking about how a scout team would roll (no pun intended) then I know you've drank a little too much kool-aid.

 

[Big_Fan]

You dismiss Stanford too easily. I know how good Bama's o-line is, but Stanford's isn't that far behind. If you want to believe ND doesn't have an offense that's fine. When you start talking about how a scout team would roll (no pun intended) then I know you've drank a little too much kool-aid.

So you think SJSU wouldd hold Bama's scout team O to < 40 yards rushing?

SJSU had a good season in a bad conference, but gave up almost 300 yards rushing to SDSU...and a lot of yards to others. The fact that Stanford had 37 yards rushing against a WAC tam doesn't convince me that they have a rushing attack better than Bama's. The WAC is the left coast Sun Belt.

 

[planomateo]

So you think SJSU wouldd hold Bama's scout team O to < 40 yards rushing?

SJSU had a good season in a bad conference, but gave up almost 300 yards rushing to SDSU...and a lot of yards to others. The fact that Stanford had 37 yards rushing against a WAC tam doesn't convince me that they have a rushing attack better than Bama's. The WAC is the left coast Sun Belt.

Are you talking about the San Jose State vs Stanford game at the beginning of the season? http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2012&game=201200000067420120831.xml

San Jose State had 70 yds net against Stanford. Stanford put up 155 yds net against San Jose State.

 

[Big_Fan]

Are you talking about the San Jose State vs Stanford game at the beginning of the season? http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2012&game=201200000067420120831.xml

San Jose State had 70 yds net against Stanford. Stanford put up 155 yds net against San Jose State.

This is what I get for trying to post from an Android. Half of what I typed didn't post. That is why I wasn't my normally verbose self.

Stanford was held to 37 yards in the second half by SJSU. Teams with strong running games and great OL's generally get better as the game goes on - especially when playing lower tier teams that lack depth. SJSU had their best season in recent memory, but they were still weak relative to upper tier BCS programs. Had Bama played them, we would have worn them out and our second team would have gotten a chance to run the ball.

Forde's article was unbiased on the surface, but it failed to take the "Trickle down" approach, and look at extrapolated opponent data. I am aware that great teams can have bad games or struggle with lesser teams, but elite teams generally take care of business impressively. Poor showings are usually limited to one off week. The coach will blow a gasket, and the next time out they plaster the also-ran bum of the week.

Looking at Notre Dame's schedule in more detail... not simply saying "most impressive win..."

Navy: The midshipmen are usually solid, insofar as Academy ball goes. Their record this season is 7-4, with a win over USAF and a likely win coming against Army to reach 10 wins. ND plastered them in game one in the UK. Looking closer, PSU plastered them 34-7 in game 2, in spite of the early season turmoil surrounding the program, and the Midshipmen were shut out by SJSU 12-0. Probably the most condemning loss was the 41-31 loss to a Troy team that finished 5-7 (3-5 Sunbelt)

Purdue: ND squeaked by the Boilermakers 20-17. Purdue was bad this season. Really bad. Purdue finished 6-6, but did not beat a single team with a winning record. They did manage to lose 44-28 to a Golden Gopher team that finished @ 6-6. They were blown out by PSU 34-9.

Mich State: At the time, the 20-3 win over MSU seemed impressive. MSU finished at 6-6 (3-5), and lost to Iowa.

Michigan: 13-6 over the Wolverines is one of ND's best wins. Michigan turned the ball over 6 times, but Notre Dame couldn't capitalize. Of course, what makes this game interesting is that the Wolverines were a common opponent. The demolition of Michigan is well documented. Michigan gained 2/3rds of their total O against Bama after they were down 31-7. ND did not dominate Michigan.

Miami: This game turned some heads because of name recognition, but in retrospect, it is not surprising. Miami had no defense to speak of in 2012. They were the victim of a KSU curb stomping, and beat Duke by a TD in a shut out. Duke. Yeah, I know Duke was better this year, but not good enough to prevent curb stompings by FSU, Clemson, and GT - ACC teams who were dominated by SEC opposition.

Stanford is a pretty impressive win. In Stanford, Notre Dame beat a team that would finish 3rd or 4th in either SEC division.

BYU = Ole Miss

OU: Big Game Bob is guaranteed to blow a game he should win. What bothers me, is that ND had so much trouble scoring on OU. The score is misleading. The game was tied @ 13 in the 4th quarter. OU gave up a quick strike TD and turned the ball over on downs deep in their own territory.

Boston College: it is hard to get worse than the Eagles.

Wake Forest: Thank God for BC because it is hard to be worse than Wake. 38-0 is a beat down, but Vandy hung half a hundred on them.

USC: Bad coach. Bad year. QB out with an injury...

______________________

The only team on ND's schedule that would potentially finish in the upper half of the SEC is Stanford. There are several teams on their schedule that would go 0-fer SEC. Even Auburn would have beaten BC or Wake.

ND had struggles throughout the season, and the common opponent was competitive against them - not against us.

I can't see ND staying on the field for much over a half. It will be the ugliest BCS bowl game since Cincy played Florida in the Sugar Bowl.

 

[It Takes Eleven]

If we get a chance, I expect we will perform well against ND. However, a balanced review of our performance this year would reveal times when our vaunted "strong running game and great OL generally get better as the game goes on - especially when playing lower tier teams that lack depth". Western Kentucky would be our best (or worst) example. I believe we rushed for 38 yards in the second half, and 32 of it came on a single Kenyon Drake TD run.

I hope we're still talking about this Saturday night.

RTR,

Tim

 

[tidentrue]

i hope we're still talking about this saturday night.

amen brother!!!!

 

[Big_Fan]

If we get a chance, I expect we will perform well against ND. However, a balanced review of our performance this year would reveal times when our vaunted "strong running game and great OL generally get better as the game goes on - especially when playing lower tier teams that lack depth". Western Kentucky would be our best (or worst) example. I believe we rushed for 38 yards in the second half, and 32 of it came on a single Kenyon Drake TD run.

I hope we're still talking about this Saturday night.

RTR,

Tim

Again, look at the bigger picture. We had blown Michigan off of the field in week one. SJSU was the first game for Stanford. The WKU game was not remotely competitive, and the coaches tinkered with the offense. Beating WKU 35-0 in the manner of a cat plays with a mouse before killing it, is a bit different than beating SJSU 20-17 - with the game in doubt all the way until the end. Had the Cardinal not recovered a fumble in the 4th quarter and cashed it in for a field goal, the game could have gone to OT.

It is a good comparison in that WKU is probably close to equal with SJSU - or was early in the season. SJSU has a better record, but the Sagarin rankings that our ND visitor is fond of says that the SBC is a better conference than the WAC. Realistically, SJSU is probably a bit better than WKU, but SJSU would fit right in with the SBC.

Regardless, Stanford is not ND. ND has a solid defense and a serviceable offense - but they are not an elite team. They have had the benefit of a schedule that looked difficult in the preseason turning out to be not as difficult. LSU, UGA, USCe, Florida, or aTm would be undefeated with that schedule - as would Bama. MSU would probably have a couple of losses, as would Ole Miss or Vandy. The top 6 SEC teams would have looked more impressive against the same teams.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bama or UGA shut out ND, though I do think Bama would stand a better chance of doing it.

 

[bamaraider]

I don't think you should judge a team by the strength of schedule, but by the eye test.. ND is a hell of a team and I will admit I think they would give us a more stressful game than we had with LSU..I think they're very similar defensively and little more conservative on offense..I'm not saying we would lose; but however, they are no pushover...They would destroy Georgia or South Carolina. Why? Too finesse, not fundamentally sound on defense, fatigue, offensive line play ,and the fact that both of those teams have a track record of imploding in big games.

Now...onto the Jawja game this week....Alabama mauls Georgia in a old fashion beat down and Mark Richtt gets put on the hot seat...AGAIN

 

[bamafan4ever]

I don't think you should judge a team by the strength of schedule, but by the eye test.. ND is a hell of a team and I will admit I think they would give us a more stressful game than we had with LSU..I think they're very similar defensively and little more conservative on offense..I'm not saying we would lose; but however, they are no pushover...They would destroy Georgia or South Carolina. Why? Too finesse, not fundamentally sound on defense, fatigue, offensive line play ,and the fact that both of those teams have a track record of imploding in big games.

Now...onto the Jawja game this week....Alabama mauls Georgia in a old fashion beat down and Mark Richtt gets put on the hot seat...AGAIN

I don't think that is possible and/or I don't think my heart could handle it. That was a brutal second half until the last 1:28 or so!

 

[Irish#1]

This is what I get for trying to post from an Android. Half of what I typed didn't post. That is why I wasn't my normally verbose self.

Stanford was held to 37 yards in the second half by SJSU. Teams with strong running games and great OL's generally get better as the game goes on - especially when playing lower tier teams that lack depth. SJSU had their best season in recent memory, but they were still weak relative to upper tier BCS programs. Had Bama played them, we would have worn them out and our second team would have gotten a chance to run the ball.

Forde's article was unbiased on the surface, but it failed to take the "Trickle down" approach, and look at extrapolated opponent data. I am aware that great teams can have bad games or struggle with lesser teams, but elite teams generally take care of business impressively. Poor showings are usually limited to one off week. The coach will blow a gasket, and the next time out they plaster the also-ran bum of the week.

Looking at Notre Dame's schedule in more detail... not simply saying "most impressive win..."

Navy: The midshipmen are usually solid, insofar as Academy ball goes. Their record this season is 7-4, with a win over USAF and a likely win coming against Army to reach 10 wins. ND plastered them in game one in the UK. Looking closer, PSU plastered them 34-7 in game 2, in spite of the early season turmoil surrounding the program, and the Midshipmen were shut out by SJSU 12-0. Probably the most condemning loss was the 41-31 loss to a Troy team that finished 5-7 (3-5 Sunbelt)

Purdue: ND squeaked by the Boilermakers 20-17. Purdue was bad this season. Really bad. Purdue finished 6-6, but did not beat a single team with a winning record. They did manage to lose 44-28 to a Golden Gopher team that finished @ 6-6. They were blown out by PSU 34-9.

Mich State: At the time, the 20-3 win over MSU seemed impressive. MSU finished at 6-6 (3-5), and lost to Iowa.

Michigan: 13-6 over the Wolverines is one of ND's best wins. Michigan turned the ball over 6 times, but Notre Dame couldn't capitalize. Of course, what makes this game interesting is that the Wolverines were a common opponent. The demolition of Michigan is well documented. Michigan gained 2/3rds of their total O against Bama after they were down 31-7. ND did not dominate Michigan.

Miami: This game turned some heads because of name recognition, but in retrospect, it is not surprising. Miami had no defense to speak of in 2012. They were the victim of a KSU curb stomping, and beat Duke by a TD in a shut out. Duke. Yeah, I know Duke was better this year, but not good enough to prevent curb stompings by FSU, Clemson, and GT - ACC teams who were dominated by SEC opposition.

Stanford is a pretty impressive win. In Stanford, Notre Dame beat a team that would finish 3rd or 4th in either SEC division.

BYU = Ole Miss

OU: Big Game Bob is guaranteed to blow a game he should win. What bothers me, is that ND had so much trouble scoring on OU. The score is misleading. The game was tied @ 13 in the 4th quarter. OU gave up a quick strike TD and turned the ball over on downs deep in their own territory.

Boston College: it is hard to get worse than the Eagles.

Wake Forest: Thank God for BC because it is hard to be worse than Wake. 38-0 is a beat down, but Vandy hung half a hundred on them.

USC: Bad coach. Bad year. QB out with an injury...

______________________

The only team on ND's schedule that would potentially finish in the upper half of the SEC is Stanford. There are several teams on their schedule that would go 0-fer SEC. Even Auburn would have beaten BC or Wake.

ND had struggles throughout the season, and the common opponent was competitive against them - not against us.

I can't see ND staying on the field for much over a half. It will be the ugliest BCS bowl game since Cincy played Florida in the Sugar Bowl.

I could rebuttal what you are saying with additional comments and we could go on and on but it would be a waste of time. Teams develop over the course of the season. You have to look at the teams the week the games are played, not at the end of the year. Golson is a much better QB now than he was at the start of the season. ND isn't putting up showtime numbers because it's not their style. Like I said go look at their games. Kelly isn't afraid to open it up when needed. Look at what he did against OU right after OU scored to close within 6 or 7. He went deep and then it was all over. He opened it up against Pitt for a great comeback.

The SEC is a great conference but to think Stanford wouldn't fare any better than 3rd or 4th in either division isn't being objective. They have a very good defense (ask Oregon) and a very good rushing game. I wouldn't be surprised to see them 2nd or 3rd.

Can ND beat Bama or UG? I don't know, but I'm comfortable enough with this team to know they won't get blown or out manhandled.

 

[TerryP]

I could rebuttal what you are saying with additional comments and we could go on and on but it would be a waste of time. Teams develop over the course of the season. You have to look at the teams the week the games are played, not at the end of the year. Golson is a much better QB now than he was at the start of the season. ND isn't putting up showtime numbers because it's not their style. Like I said go look at their games. Kelly isn't afraid to open it up when needed. Look at what he did against OU right after OU scored to close within 6 or 7. He went deep and then it was all over. He opened it up against Pitt for a great comeback.

The SEC is a great conference but to think Stanford wouldn't fare any better than 3rd or 4th in either division isn't being objective. They have a very good defense (ask Oregon) and a very good rushing game. I wouldn't be surprised to see them 2nd or 3rd.

Can ND beat Bama or UG? I don't know, but I'm comfortable enough with this team to know they won't get blown or out manhandled.

There's one thing I pay a great deal of attention to—and those here can attest—and that's what I call the mental makeup of a team.

Take Florida as an example. They are much better in the physical aspect of their play this year than last. They still have their issues evidence by struggling to beat the Ragin' Cajuns at home 10 weeks into the season.

I bring that up to say this. No matter how "ugly they forced the other team to lose" (isn't that how you preferred it? :bluebiggrin: ) ND has managed to pull it out in the end.

Stanford: I didn't see them do anything special against Oregon. Sound defense, with discipline gap control. None-the-less, yes a good defense. How they would do if they were in the SEC this year? It depend on their schedule. If they had Mizzou's, they'd be in the bottom half of the league. Georgia's? I can see third in the east.

 

[bamaraider]

I don't think that is possible and/or I don't think my heart could handle it. That was a brutal second half until the last 1:28 or so!

touche...