🏀 Basketball Captures Big Road Win with 68-62 Victory Over South Carolina

[50+yeartidefan]

But.metrics are great...how are they in crunch time.....
Stuid turnovers..stepping on baseline , walking, lazy passes,..etc
Free throws... thoseumbers are great @TerryP ....so we are a very good atthe charity stripe???...... werer pretty good in second half vsUSCe...could have really put them in aholeat end of first half...but missed 6-7 at close of first half.... and were awful vs @miss state... big games ....
See how they do in-next 3....good @free throw shooting will be critical....
Got to be good st charity stripe

 

[mando]

To me it is all about when you miss free throws and turn the ball over. My perception is they do it at the worse possible times during the games when hitting free throws or not turning the ball over would squash the run but instead it adds fuel to the fire. Now I do not have data/facts to back that perception up.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

To me it is all about when you miss free throws and turn the ball over. My perception is they do it at the worse possible times during the games when hitting three throws or not turning the ball over would squash the run but instead it adds fuel to the fire. Now I do not have data/facts to back that perception up.

Dont need data/ facts..can watch games and get the sense of whats happening..not always.....but what a team is going to do....
And sense of team....

 

[mando]

Dont need data/ facts..can watch games and get the sense of whats happening..not always.....but what a team is going to do....
And sense of team....

Yeah you can see it coming. You know the other team is going to make a run (always do) and then bama tightens up for a period of time. When they are able to work their way out the funk they pull out a win but when they cannot it turns into another frustrating loss.

 

[TerryP]

Yeah you can see it coming. You know the other team is going to make a run (always do) and then bama tightens up for a period of time. When they are able to work their way out the funk they pull out a win but when they cannot it turns into another frustrating loss.

The same can be said for over ¾ of the teams we'll see dancing. Which brings us back to the leadership/maturity discussions, right?

Dont need data/ facts..can watch games and get the sense of whats happening..not always.....but what a team is going to do....
And sense of team....

But you do. You have to take these things into account. The numbers themselves dispute the notion there isn't a team environment at play.

(A switch from Kira to Dazon gives this team a better defense; better rebounding numbers. It's the same with a guy like Petty--while he's not your scorer, he's your rebounder. Pieces to a puzzle.)

The numbers dispute turnovers as being a reason for losses. A game here or there? Sure. As an indicator of the teams "health." No. Giving up one more turnover a game isn't going to define a team.

In football, the game is a sprint. One stumble and a team can be knocked out of the picture.
Baseball, is readily and easily described as a marathon, not a sprint.
But, the same isn't given to basketball? It's as close to a marathon to baseball as any sport we're following (softball as an exception.)

 

[TUSKtimes]

(A switch from Kira to Dazon gives this team a better defense; better rebounding numbers. It's the same with a guy like Petty--while he's not your scorer, he's your rebounder. Pieces to a puzzle.)

Without Kira, this wouldn't be a .500 team. Without our 17-year-old phenom, this team would be a total disaster. The fact that he is literally our glue guy throughout ballgames says a lot. Petty runs so hot and cold as a shooter it's always feast or famine. He is also loose with the ball. Too big of a hurry and seldom stays under control (see Tennessee). He should be a potent shooter, feared from the 3 point line with his touch. Many a game he is still so inconsistent with his scoring.

Ingram is a very average player in the SEC. He's not quick and he can't jump. He's a tall guard that will play defense and will occasionally hit from the outside. He will also turn it over trying to do too much with the ball in his hands, and struggles mightily when pressured.

 

[TerryP]

Without Kira, this wouldn't be a .500 team. Without our 17-year-old phenom, this team would be a total disaster. The fact that he is literally our glue guy throughout ballgames says a lot. Petty runs so hot and cold as a shooter it's always feast or famine. He is also loose with the ball. Too big of a hurry and seldom stays under control (see Tennessee). He should be a potent shooter, feared from the 3 point line with his touch. Many a game he is still so inconsistent with his scoring.

Ingram is a very average player in the SEC. He's not quick and he can't jump. He's a tall guard that will play defense and will occasionally hit from the outside. He will also turn it over trying to do too much with the ball in his hands, and struggles mightily when pressured.

You're describing Kira, Petty, Jones, and Ingram all in the same post.

And I'm going right back to where I've always been. One or two turnovers, over the space of a half of basketball, doesn't make or break a team. The top four ball handlers are turning the ball over the same number of times--but only a select number are being called out. That, on top of the point that if Bama had two less per half they'd lead the nation in the fewest. It's a mountain made out of a mole hill. There's a .5 difference between the number of turnovers by Bama and that of Duke (as one example.)

Now, defensive efficiency? Duke and Bama are worlds apart: #7 vs #150.

 

[mando]

@TerryP I think there is a psychology going on here that draws us to free throws and turnovers as being the issue. When things are getting tight and us fans are getting antsy any misstep (turnovers or missed free throws) is magnified in our minds as we watch the game. Given the stat you showed maybe the real problem is Defense...

Regardless, in my post above you mention that I am describing 3/4 of the teams in the tournament in how the Bama responds to runs by the other team. You are probably right but I want to be in the 1/4 bucket. Is that asking to much? Maybe so but surely we can be better than a .500 team in the SEC.

 

[TUSKtimes]

You're describing Kira, Petty, Jones, and Ingram all in the same post.

And I'm going right back to where I've always been. One or two turnovers, over the space of a half of basketball, doesn't make or break a team. The top four ball handlers are turning the ball over the same number of times--but only a select number are being called out. That, on top of the point that if Bama had two less per half they'd lead the nation in the fewest. It's a mountain made out of a mole hill. There's a .5 difference between the number of turnovers by Bama and that of Duke (as one example.)

Now, defensive efficiency? Duke and Bama are worlds apart: #7 vs #150.

Sure I am, these are the people responsible for our success or not. You don't like getting dragged into debates about team strategy, grit, fundamentals, all those human things that need to be coached up as much as any X and Os.

Let's take Duke, I've watched a few of their games against the big boys. When Zion blew a shoe they had less talent, less toughness inside and even with still a truckload of talent they started losing basketball games. I don't know if their "defensive efficiency" has statistically changed since he went out, maybe it has or hasn't, but I'm not confused about what their problem is. They need Zion back and soon.

I'm not taking my focus off the coach or players for team success to pay homage to any statistic, good or bad. If I'm going to fix something that needs fixing I'm going to be looking at someone in the eye. Whatever is staring back at me is the answer.

 

[TerryP]

Sure I am, these are the people responsible for our success or not. You don't like getting dragged into debates about team strategy, grit, fundamentals, all those human things that need to be coached up as much as any X and Os.

And yet I've addressed every one of those three on more than one occasion. So, how do you get "I don't like being dragged into" a conversation where it's that very conversation I've been offered critique?

Hyperbole? Over exaggeration if you prefer?

Let's take Duke, I've watched a few of their games against the big boys. When Zion blew a shoe they had less talent, less toughness inside and even with still a truckload of talent they started losing basketball games. I don't know if their "defensive efficiency" has statistically changed since he went out, maybe it has or hasn't, but I'm not confused about what their problem is. They need Zion back and soon.

When Zion went out they lost to UNC and recently Va Tech--two top 20 teams. What's ironic in this comparison is the loss to VT had Duke with fewer turnovers than they average and they shot around 80% of the free throw line. The game recaps mention how VT played that night going as far as saying even if Zion were to have played it wouldn't have made a difference. Why? No need to look any further than the play that broke the tie: it wasn't a loss of toughness, or grit, or turning the ball over. It wasn't because they missed from FT's. It was because they didn't defend well. Coach K commented on how VT won that game characterizing it not as a Duke loss, and a VT win. (It's also the third game in a row VT has won at Cassell.)

I'm not taking my focus off the coach or players for team success to pay homage to any statistic, good or bad. If I'm going to fix something that needs fixing I'm going to be looking at someone in the eye. Whatever is staring back at me is the answer.

Which in the end leaves you with what? Are you looking these players in the eye? What basis do you have to judge "grit" upon? It's a subjective observation.

Say what you want about the nuts and bolts to this statement. There's no better evidence of where this teams shortcomings fall when you see they've dropped from 16 to the 60's to the 150th spot they occupy today. There's no better evidence against it being a FT situation than seeing them lose game where they are great from the line and win some when they aren't. And that carries over to the turnover argument as well.

 

[UAgrad93]

@TUSKtimes , reading you and @TerryP go back and forth discussing issues we have or perceived made me think to the quote of "Have defense will travel!" I started thinking, I've seen that on here somewhere. Where have I seen it? Who has that in their sig? You!! Not bashing you by the way. I'm just saying that defense can win or lose you a lot of games in basketball and baseball just like football. I agree with you that when @TerryP 's point about defense or lack of starts showing it's face, players need to get a knot jerked in their ass and their attention regained.
I think all of it goes hand in hand. Lack of focus, mental lapses, laziness, immaturity, low basketball IQ, etc. all lead to our defensive play. I made the comment about the USCe game that the BAMA defense really played with great intensity and fire. They seemed to have that sense of urgency about them.
I think that sometimes that CAJ waits a little too long to call a timeout when things start going sideways. Only he knows the answer but I think he may be thinking one of two things. Survive to the media TO to preserve our TOs or let's see if they will play their way out of the adversity they have often caused. Often it seems, he waits too late.

 

[TUSKtimes]

When Zion went out they lost to UNC and recently Va Tech--two top 20 teams. What's ironic in this comparison is the loss to VT had Duke with fewer turnovers than they average and they shot around 80% of the free throw line. The game recaps mention how VT played that night going as far as saying even if Zion were to have played it wouldn't have made a difference. Why? No need to look any further than the play that broke the tie: it wasn't a loss of toughness, or grit, or turning the ball over. It wasn't because they missed from FT's. It was because they didn't defend well. Coach K commented on how VT won that game characterizing it not as a Duke loss, and a VT win. (It's also the third game in a row VT has won at Cassell.)

You genuinely think in numbers, don't you? I might let you do my taxes, but you ain't getting anywhere near my basketball team.

Which in the end leaves you with what? Are you looking these players in the eye? What basis do you have to judge "grit" upon? It's a subjective observation.

Yes, Terry, you coach up your players, in a subjective kind of way. Grit is subjective. Life is subjective. Though if anyone ever comes up with an equation for grit, my money is on you.

Let me wax poetic for a moment: "The eyes are the window to the soul." Before you get any results, good or bad, you get the attitude first. Always the attitude, that's your trigger point. That's where a good coach or parent makes the adjustment. And then you get your message out the same way you get your message out with your kids, have you got some of those?

You make eye contact and you want to see the emotional acceptance and understanding that they got it. You want to see in that countenance, no attitude, disagreement or confusion. And when I ask them what they plan on doing about the problem, I expect a specific plan of action, mostly based on my strong recommendations that I probably already covered with them. If at that point, I can see in those faces that there are still unbelievers and stragglers at that point, you mentor accordingly. My kids and grandkids and some of the folks that have worked for me over the years could put you in mine of all the different things that has entailed.

I assume that's some of the same stuff Avery is now dealing with, with the players not getting the minutes they have in the past. I've recently seen him get in the face of 2 of his players on the sidelines and he wasn't going over their stats. He told Ingram to pick up his energy, he screamed at Reece to get out on the 3 point shooter. Interesting neither was in the game down the stretch of our last contest. I believe he is getting sick and tired of what he has seen as a response. I know I am.

 

[TUSKtimes]

@TUSKtimes , reading you and @TerryP go back and forth discussing issues we have or perceived made me think to the quote of "Have defense will travel!" I started thinking, I've seen that on here somewhere. Where have I seen it? Who has that in their sig? You!! Not bashing you by the way. I'm just saying that defense can win or lose you a lot of games in basketball and baseball just like football. I agree with you that when @TerryP 's point about defense or lack of starts showing it's face, players need to get a knot jerked in their ass and their attention regained.
I think all of it goes hand in hand. Lack of focus, mental lapses, laziness, immaturity, low basketball IQ, etc. all lead to our defensive play. I made the comment about the USCe game that the BAMA defense really played with great intensity and fire. They seemed to have that sense of urgency about them.
I think that sometimes that CAJ waits a little too long to call a timeout when things start going sideways. Only he knows the answer but I think he may be thinking one of two things. Survive to the media TO to preserve our TOs or let's see if they will play their way out of the adversity they have often caused. Often it seems, he waits too late.

That pretty much sums up my feeling on the subject. And when you have these tendencies as a team, how could it be happing on only one side of the court? The difference between Terry and myself is what to call it. And it's only important to me in discussing how you fix it. At this point, I think we are both saying it ain't working. At least I think that's what he is saying. I know that's how I feel about our basketball program in year 4.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@TUSKtimes , reading you and @TerryP
I think that sometimes that CAJ waits a little too long to call a timeout when things start going sideways. Only he knows the answer but I think he may be thinking one of two things. Survive to the media TO to pre...serve our TOs or let's see if they will play their way out of the adversity they have often caused. Often it seems, he waits too late.

Just a quicknote @UAgrad93 ......and poking fun.....
Sometimes i want to think what the hell is CAJ thinking...and then I think...
Ummmmmm...."NBA Coach of the Year". And then I realize ....
Hush 50+...just watch and hush...lol

 

[UAgrad93]

@50+yeartidefan I catch myself like that at times too. I also think that he is dealing with 18-22 year olds and not millionaires with A LOT higher basketball IQ and he forgets that at times.
I know I’ve caught myself doing it in the past as well. I coached HS ball for 13 years, but then got out of it to be there for my kids. I would be asked to help out with my son’s baseball teams and I would always give in, but would forget and think their skills and IQ wasn’t what I was used to coaching. I think CAJ might still be finding himself in that situation in year 4.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@50+yeartidefan I catch myself like that at times too. I also think that he is dealing with 18-22 year olds and not millionaires with A LOT higher basketball IQ and he forgets that at times.
I know I’ve caught myself doing it in the past as well. I coached HS ball for 13 years, but then got out of it to be there for my kids. I would be asked to help out with my son’s baseball teams and I would always give in, but would forget and think their skills and IQ wasn’t what I was used to coaching. I think CAJ might still be finding himself in that situation in year 4.

But you wonder...Fake field goal and all..