🏈 Bama Getting Sucked Into Scandal

[XXL TideFan]

Alabama Players Possibly Involved

This guy is a piece of work.

 

[sean]

ok, somebody educate me here...

why is it wrong for someone not associated with the program to give money to a player? according to this guy, he never paid a coach (which, to me, shouldn't be wrong, either); he only gave money to players. from what i've read, he's not a booster of any schools he mentioned.

is it wrong if i were to give a player money? even $5?

and if the player pays it back, isn't that just a loan? if so, are they saying loans are against the rules? and, again, if so, the ncaa is basically saying that no player shall receive any type of money from anyone at any time.....for any reason.

and don't get me started on how the fbi is setting players up by entrapment.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

ok, somebody educate me here...

why is it wrong for someone not associated with the program to give money to a player? according to this guy, he never paid a coach (which, to me, shouldn't be wrong, either); he only gave money to players. from what i've read, he's not a booster of any schools he mentioned.

is it wrong if i were to give a player money? even $5?

and if the player pays it back, isn't that just a loan? if so, are they saying loans are against the rules? and, again, if so, the ncaa is basically saying that no player shall receive any type of money from anyone at any time.....for any reason.

and don't get me started on how the fbi is setting players up by entrapment.

Slippery slopes your questions are
But a guy just says something?????
Anybody can say anything
Lots of gray area

 

[OldPlayer]

ok, somebody educate me here...

why is it wrong for someone not associated with the program to give money to a player? according to this guy, he never paid a coach (which, to me, shouldn't be wrong, either); he only gave money to players. from what i've read, he's not a booster of any schools he mentioned.

is it wrong if i were to give a player money? even $5?

and if the player pays it back, isn't that just a loan? if so, are they saying loans are against the rules? and, again, if so, the ncaa is basically saying that no player shall receive any type of money from anyone at any time.....for any reason.

and don't get me started on how the fbi is setting players up by entrapment.

It's always been against NCAA regulations. It has the potential to set the player up for extortion (I gave you $200 and if you don't shave a few points off, I will expose this and you'll be declared ineligible).

Do you remember the Alfred Means case? Amateur athlete means you don't get paid, regardless of source.

 

[BamaFan334]

ok, somebody educate me here...

why is it wrong for someone not associated with the program to give money to a player? according to this guy, he never paid a coach (which, to me, shouldn't be wrong, either); he only gave money to players. from what i've read, he's not a booster of any schools he mentioned.

is it wrong if i were to give a player money? even $5?

and if the player pays it back, isn't that just a loan? if so, are they saying loans are against the rules? and, again, if so, the ncaa is basically saying that no player shall receive any type of money from anyone at any time.....for any reason.

and don't get me started on how the fbi is setting players up by entrapment.

You are not allowed to take any money as a player from anyone considered a booster or anyone that could profit from that money. I mean, a random old lady could give Tua $5 in a town in Kansas for whatever reason and it wouldn't be a violation, but someone like you that can be proven to be a supporter of a program, it's a violation. Remember when a coach gav one of our players like $100 (may have been less) for gas and to repair his car? Violation for that.

 

[OldPlayer]

You are not allowed to take any money as a player from anyone considered a booster or anyone that could profit from that money. I mean, a random old lady could give Tua $5 in a town in Kansas for whatever reason and it wouldn't be a violation, but someone like you that can be proven to be a supporter of a program, it's a violation. Remember when a coach gav one of our players like $100 (may have been less) for gas and to repair his car? Violation for that.

Even the $5 is against the rules (but never enforced). There are always the boosters who provide $100-handshakes (was much less in my day but $100 wasn't impossible).

 

[mando]

This kind of stuff makes me nervous. This guy is under oath in a federal court case and looking at 60+ years in prison from what I understand. Doesn't he have a lot more to lose if he is dishonest at this point?

 

[BamaFan334]

Even the $5 is against the rules (but never enforced). There are always the boosters who provide $100-handshakes (was much less in my day but $100 wasn't impossible).

I was under the impression it was only against someone that benefits the program or could benefit from the player. So what's the difference in a random stranger and say a distant relative or even a classmate loaning you a few bucks for lunch?

 

[PurlJam]

Wasn't he paying players/coaches/families to steer them towards certain agents and not to play for certain colleges?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

And what are the " many others" referenced in stead just a few blue bloods mentioned
Could be all 126

 

[OldPlayer]

I was under the impression it was only against someone that benefits the program or could benefit from the player. So what's the difference in a random stranger and say a distant relative or even a classmate loaning you a few bucks for lunch?

It depends on the context. Borrowing a few bucks for lunch is different than a few hundred to fix your car. It comes down to how the player's position as a player contributes to the rationale for the loan. Did the player's status as a football player contribute to the loan or was the player given the same consideration as any other student? The player could go to the bank to get a loan (as any other student could). Were there specific repayment plans established? Were the conditions of the loan the same as if they went to the bank?

 

[Elderfalsedemigod]

Bottom line is any player who received money from this guy was technically ineligible to play at that point. Now you have the 4 year statute of limitations that comes into play and the fact that nobody with UA ties was involved. I believe if all of that holds true the worst would be vacating of wins that the players participated in. Also you have the fact he hasn't yet mentioned names and the NCAA does not have power of subpoena over this guy. Now if he continues to spout info all of the above could change

 

[rocknthefreeworld]

Wasn't he paying players/coaches/families to steer them towards certain agents and not to play for certain colleges?

Yes, but in at least one case it appears he did so with the knowledge of at least one Penn State coach with the idea of not only steering him to a particular agent but also stay in school for another year. This guy is also involved in the stuff that got UNC in trouble about 7 years ago. As long as nobody at Alabama was involved or knew then this should flow past without causing trouble.

 

[rueben]

Did y'all forget about the Auburn Booster taking Julio and Ingram offshore fishing?

 

[50+yeartidefan]

As long as it involves Bama and ncaa....there is an element of worry...
People dont brag about catching a bunch of bluegill....but a trophy bass... thats what they brag about

 

[sean]

You are not allowed to take any money as a player from anyone considered a booster or anyone that could profit from that money. I mean, a random old lady could give Tua $5 in a town in Kansas for whatever reason and it wouldn't be a violation, but someone like you that can be proven to be a supporter of a program, it's a violation. Remember when a coach gav one of our players like $100 (may have been less) for gas and to repair his car? Violation for that.

but to what degree is someone considered a booster? can they prove that i'm a booster? can they prove that i financially support the program, or the school, in any way?

am i a fan? obviously and absolutely! but that doesn't make me a booster. does purchasing tickets to a game make me a booster? if so, then they'd have to prove that i bought tickets; which would be next to impossible to do.

also, what about my previous question about paying it back. if that happens, it is actually a loan and not just someone giving money to a player. again, though, it'd have to be proven that money changed hands. and someone can say anything under oath. but the devil in the details is that it has to be proven. can he prove that he gave them money? can the player (or their family) prove that they didn't take it? can the fbi/ncaa/whoever prove that money did exchange hands for a service? and do so without any doubt?

 

[OldPlayer]

but to what degree is someone considered a booster? can they prove that i'm a booster? can they prove that i financially support the program, or the school, in any way?

am i a fan? obviously and absolutely! but that doesn't make me a booster. does purchasing tickets to a game make me a booster? if so, then they'd have to prove that i bought tickets; which would be next to impossible to do.

also, what about my previous question about paying it back. if that happens, it is actually a loan and not just someone giving money to a player. again, though, it'd have to be proven that money changed hands. and someone can say anything under oath. but the devil in the details is that it has to be proven. can he prove that he gave them money? can the player (or their family) prove that they didn't take it? can the fbi/ncaa/whoever prove that money did exchange hands for a service? and do so without any doubt?

Is there some type of loan document that says here is what you're getting and here is what you pay back on what schedule? You can't hand over $$$ and say "pay it back whenever." The NCAA doesn't have the power to subpoena you, but they can make the player ineligible until everything they need is made available.

 

[bamachine]

As long as it involves Bama and ncaa....there is an element of worry...
People dont brag about catching a bunch of bluegill....but a trophy bass... thats what they brag about

Gimme the bluegill every time, along with some cornmeal, seasonings and my Fry Daddy.

 

[sean]

Is there some type of loan document that says here is what you're getting and here is what you pay back on what schedule? You can't hand over $$$ and say "pay it back whenever." The NCAA doesn't have the power to subpoena you, but they can make the player ineligible until everything they need is made available.

but my thing is the proof. can they just say anyone is ineligible just because they heard a rumor and have no proof?

if someone tells the ncaa that they gave money to someone, they should have to prove it. that burden should be on them; NOT the person they say received the money. but i believe the ncaa, more times than not, will believe whoever tells the story first. and, without any due diligence of trying to find proof, will make players ineligible, or punish schools without actual proof. and, of course, there are times when they have plenty of proof, and should punish a school or player(s), but don't. or, when they do, the punishment doesn't fit the crime...to the benefit of the "criminal".

that's why i say the larger, more powerful schools (all of those in the p5 conferences) should just say, "we're not dealing with the ncaa anymore and we're going our own way and creating our own rules/oversight committee." what the hell would the ncaa do to them? what COULD they do to them? it's not like they could arrest them, or fine them. ok yeah, they COULD fine them. but if they refuse to pay the fine, what would happen? nothing. taking their power from them means they have no power over you.

they can put a representative from each school/conference on a committee and be self-policing. draw up rules that state, without question, what the punishment will be if any of them are caught breaking the rules. and then carry out that/those punishment(s) without fail.

i.e.,
*get caught cheating? probation for 2 years, 2 year bowl ban, loss of half of your scholarships, loss of conference money for 1 year, affected players forced to sit for a season
*get caught cheating again? probation for 5 years, 5 year bowl ban, loss of 75% of your scholarships, loss of conference money for 3 years, affected players get dismissed from team and forfeit scholarship
*get caught cheating WHILE on probation? indefinite probation, indefinite bowl ban, loss of 85% of scholarships, loss of conference money for 5 years, affected players get dismissed from the school and are no longer eligible to play college sports

harsh? maybe. but sending a clear message will make the schools, teams, and players take notice and work hard at doing the right things the right way. make rules, force teams to ADHERE to those rules, and don't put up with any bullshit. the ncaa in its current form is a joke. they're so all over the board and wishy-washy that you can't really take them serious anymore.

 

[OldPlayer]

but my thing is the proof. can they just say anyone is ineligible just because they heard a rumor and have no proof?

if someone tells the ncaa that they gave money to someone, they should have to prove it. that burden should be on them; NOT the person they say received the money. but i believe the ncaa, more times than not, will believe whoever tells the story first. and, without any due diligence of trying to find proof, will make players ineligible, or punish schools without actual proof. and, of course, there are times when they have plenty of proof, and should punish a school or player(s), but don't. or, when they do, the punishment doesn't fit the crime...to the benefit of the "criminal".

that's why i say the larger, more powerful schools (all of those in the p5 conferences) should just say, "we're not dealing with the ncaa anymore and we're going our own way and creating our own rules/oversight committee." what the hell would the ncaa do to them? what COULD they do to them? it's not like they could arrest them, or fine them. ok yeah, they COULD fine them. but if they refuse to pay the fine, what would happen? nothing. taking their power from them means they have no power over you.

they can put a representative from each school/conference on a committee and be self-policing. draw up rules that state, without question, what the punishment will be if any of them are caught breaking the rules. and then carry out that/those punishment(s) without fail.

i.e.,
*get caught cheating? probation for 2 years, 2 year bowl ban, loss of half of your scholarships, loss of conference money for 1 year, affected players forced to sit for a season
*get caught cheating again? probation for 5 years, 5 year bowl ban, loss of 75% of your scholarships, loss of conference money for 3 years, affected players get dismissed from team and forfeit scholarship
*get caught cheating WHILE on probation? indefinite probation, indefinite bowl ban, loss of 85% of scholarships, loss of conference money for 5 years, affected players get dismissed from the school and are no longer eligible to play college sports

harsh? maybe. but sending a clear message will make the schools, teams, and players take notice and work hard at doing the right things the right way. make rules, force teams to ADHERE to those rules, and don't put up with any bullshit. the ncaa in its current form is a joke. they're so all over the board and wishy-washy that you can't really take them serious anymore.

The rules of law don't apply to NCAA investigations. If their investigation finds enough circumstantial evidence, they can take that to the school. The accuser is likely to have evidence. Eventually, someone will break down.

As for P5 schools saying screw the NCAA, there won't be a big walkout. How many schools would walk out and who would Alabama play while they wait for other schools to walk out? How long would that take to get enough schools to walkout for a full schedule? Do you think the conference would step in before that happens? While schools are trying to get support of a walkout, the NCAA would come in and try to mitigate the situation with support of the conference.