🏈 A couple of random thoughts regarding "Textbook Gate

[bamafan4ever]

When I first heard about Alabama having to stand before the NCAA and the COI in San Diego, I literally became somewhat nauseous. The thought of having to endure months and months of agonizing over possible sanctions and being berated even more by members of the media was just more than I cared to even think about. I have generally made it a habit to abstain from rival message boards anyway because what they have to say simply doesn't matter.

There has been some push back from the media about Alabama not making all of this public knowledge before now and I have heard that rivals are upset because Alabama waited until recruiting was over to come out with this (my heart bleeds) but aside from all of that, Alabama has spared its fanbase greatly from having to have listened to this garbage since May of last year.

When Alabama went through the whole Albert Means/Memphis mess earlier in the decade, fans got play by play of every action Alabama and the NCAA took. We knew when the PLOI arrived, we knew when the LOI arrived and we knew about the whole sordid affair after filling in the blanks from the redacted reports from Alabama and the NCAA. We listened to month after month of banter which literally turned into years of discussion which did nothing but compound the existing problems that were there as a result of a lengthy investigation. Of course Cecil Hurt is mad. Of Course Kevin Scarbinsky and Finebaum are upset. By virtue of Alabama keeping this information away from them for the better part of the year, they lost potential fish wrapper sales and good fodder for the radio airwave fire. No, what really happened is Alabama took away a weapon that would have been used against it for the last year. Most assuredly, this whole ordeal would have grown to biblical proportions through the mouth pieces of Finebaum and Hurt.

Am I insinuating that Hurt enjoys this kind of thing? Let's just say, I haven't heard him as excited and giddy as he was or speak to the great length that he did while on the Finebaum show last week. After all, he is the "BAMA/NCAA go-to-guy" when these NCAA things are ongoing. I personally think the spotlight makes him stink a little.

As a side note, the silence from the Alabama camp was something new. Leaks used to prevail in our AD and this would have been in the news one day later if it had occurred several years ago. What is strange to me, there was absolutely no one from the NCAA that leaked this information! This is amazing to me. Maybe things are starting to turn in Indianapolis ever so slightly but their ultimate actions will speak volumes in that regard. We will all find out soon enough and thanks to the handling of this whole situation, we didn't have to stew over this for months on end.

 

[Guest]

While I can understand to an extent the media's anger over this, I have no serious issue with the U of A withholding this information. Finebaum would be looking after Finebaum, Scarbinsky after Scarbinsky, etc. if they had gotten this information last may. There would have been talk show idiots insisting that we were once again staring down the barrell of a gun. It says a lot to me that once the LOI was made public, the muck rakers have not been able to get much going about this. It is after all, old news, and most of us don't care if the ladie's track program loses a couple of scholarships on this account. From the point of view of the major sports, the worst that could happen is that the NCAA will make some finding which leaves the "repeat offender" window open.

 

[Guest]

You know I don't really get all this. I really don't care that the information wasn't made public. Maybe I'm biased since I'm an alum and fan, but I really don't think that I would care if Auburn did the same.

I just don't see where it's that big of a deal other than shock and awe for the media pundits once they got hold of it. I must admit that I'm very thankful that I didn't know about it til now, but that's mainly because now I don't have to worry and think about it for months.

The only real question I have in any of this is whether any of this was shared with the 2009 recruits. Since the info wasn't made public I tend to think it wasn't shared by our staff. Did Lance Thompson share it though? You know he had to know. Did he scare Darren Myles away? Marsalis Teague? I don't know.

I wonder what my reaction would be if I was a recruit that just signed with Alabama. I wonder if any of them have negative thoughts about it. They might just have a right to.

 

[bamafan4ever]

You know I don't really get all this. I really don't care that the information wasn't made public.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I did care. That couldn't be further from the truth. On the contrary, it's a relief!

I just don't see where it's that big of a deal other than shock and awe for the media pundits once they got hold of it. I must admit that I'm very thankful that I didn't know about it til now, but that's mainly because now I don't have to worry and think about it for months.

Agreed!

Did Lance Thompson share it though? You know he had to know. Did he scare Darren Myles away? Marsalis Teague? I don't know.

You bet your rear end that he used it against us. Whether or not it was enough to drive those players away that you mentioned, who knows? Not ever going to get them all I guess.

I wonder what my reaction would be if I was a recruit that just signed with Alabama. I wonder if any of them have negative thoughts about it. They might just have a right to.

They probably were given the straight poop would be my guess. It doesn't seem to mesh with Saban's style not give someone full disclosure if he felt it may be an issue. My guess is, he doesn't think it will be a major issue........for now.

 

[Guest]

They probably were given the straight poop would be my guess. It doesn't seem to mesh with Saban's style not give someone full disclosure if he felt it may be an issue. My guess is, he doesn't think it will be a major issue........for now.

I don't know. ??? If that was the case then I wonder how it didn't leak. I'm not trying to make a huge deal out of this part. Just got me thinking. If that many people knew about it, it seems strange that no one said a word about it.

 

[TerryP]

The recruits for this class had no reason to be told about this. It had no effect on their scholarship offers.

I suspect the assistants didn't know about it as well. If they had, I'm sure Thompson would have used it on the recruiting trail. He spent time recruiting against Alabama this year. As in, if you aren't going to UT you should go somewhere else because ________.

Nice thread...sums up my thoughts very well.

 

[c5vetman]

So what is the worst that could happen to the football team?

 

[Guest]

Considering that the U of A suspended all the involved players immediately and they were reinstated with NCAA approval, I really don't see anything happening to the football program. Keeping the "Repeat Offender" window open would be the biggest thing.

 

[bamafan4ever]

Ok, break out the crying towels! Melick and Scarbinsky are still crying their little eyes out over this whole thing (from today's AL.com blog):

http://videos.al.com/birmingham-news/2009/03/at_alabama_mum_was_the_word.html

 

[Guest]

Ok, break out the crying towels! Melick and Scarbinsky are still crying their little eyes out over this whole thing (from today's AL.com blog):

http://videos.al.com/birmingham-news/2009/03/at_alabama_mum_was_the_word.html

:roll: They sound like whiny brats. But I am interested to hear what Saban says about what recruits were told. Like mentioned before, he's a straight shooter and hopefully that was the case with the players.

 

[ExiledTidefan]

In this state, if a media guy types or says something in public, it seems like all the sheeple take it as the biblical truth. It is so hard to make the masses think for themselves. They would rather be told what to think. I know that I'm not breaking new ground here. But this is another example. In this state, the talking heads make a living when the home teams are hiring or firing a coach. Or if the NCAA comes calling. In fairness, when one of the teams are doing well, they usually give props there too. But let's be real: if you work at a radio station or sports column in the state of Alabama, you better be covering what is going on in Tuscaloosa or in Lee County. Who cares about UAB? Troy? Jax State? UNA? It's all about UA and AU, and to be truthful, it's still mainly about THE U of A.

 

[Southern Bama]

Has Saban commented on any of this yet? I saw where Finebaum was talking about the possibility of the recruits being mislead :shock: I would feel alot better if Saban would comment...I swear...just when things start to look up...this crap has to start up again...

 

[ExiledTidefan]

It's not really the whole affair around the textbooks that is bugging me right now. Rather, it's the idea that we are having to answer to these clowns at the NCAA again. This is what comes from being high profile, and most importantly, WINNING. Do not believe for one minute that the folks we compete with for recruits aren't interested in seeing that the conference and the NCAA don't know everything Bama is doing at every step. I know Coach Saban knows this. I know Coach Moore knows this. However, in this era, you cannot turn a "blind eye" to your boosters and what they might be up to. And boosters can even include fellow students who work at the Supe Store, and are interested in doing favors for athletes. This all comes down to a matter of character, and turning down an opportunity to pocket a little money is not something we should expect.

 

[DIXIEDARLING]

When will the verdict be read.

 

[alagator]

It's not really the whole affair around the textbooks that is bugging me right now. Rather, it's the idea that we are having to answer to these clowns at the NCAA again. This is what comes from being high profile, and most importantly, WINNING. Do not believe for one minute that the folks we compete with for recruits aren't interested in seeing that the conference and the NCAA don't know everything Bama is doing at every step. I know Coach Saban knows this. I know Coach Moore knows this. However, in this era, you cannot turn a "blind eye" to your boosters and what they might be up to. And boosters can even include fellow students who work at the Supe Store, and are interested in doing favors for athletes. This all comes down to a matter of character, and turning down an opportunity to pocket a little money is not something we should expect.

I too am 'bugged' that we are "having to answer to these clowns at the NCAA again. In fact, I am far more than 'bugged,' I am f-ing pissed off.

I am f-ing pissed off that our leaders and the people they personally selected and appointed to positions of responsibility were so derelict in their duties that we are again in this position. We were told, and told, and told, and told that '100% compliance was our mantra in all things' and we would be so because of our understanding the repeated open disdain for internal compliance we had demonstrated in the recent past left us no other option. We were told, by those same incompetent leaders, that we would be the model of over-reaching compliance - that we would be the standard for which all programs would look for guidance.

Instead, we are so lax in our oversight that it took a CLERK at the Supe Store to detect a scam that had be going on for three academic YEARS. And what does our insular athletic department do when the scam is detected by this clerk? Why they blame the clerks and some mid-level manager at the Supe Store and deflect all blame from the people actually working in the athletic department and are actually RESPONSIBLE (such as that term existed off Bryant Drive). Why they actually 'reassign' the person who devised the flawed and failed detection program to a job with somewhat MORE responsibility. BRILLIANT! (And we fans/boosters actually wonder why we find ourselves in this position every five years like clockwork?)

What the hell does it take to get fired in Tuscaloosa? Lose a few more football games than comfortable and/or screw your secretary? Any other form of prolonged incompetence seems to be excusable.

Our problem has nothing to do with winning too much or some fear by our opponents that we are re-rising from the ashes like the phoenix. It has EVERYTHING to do with our incompetence and arrogance. Did it ever cross your mind that if WE quit violating the rules in a serious way every four or five years that maybe the evil and sinister NCAA would not have any reason to KEEP using us as an example?

If we receive the loss of ONE scholarship in ANY sport, Mal Moore needs to be fired - not merely allowed to resign to 'save face' before sundown that very day. If not, Dr. Witt is compliant in the incompetence and HE needs to explain why his woefully underwhelming actions demanding compliance do not match his very eloquent words.

 

[ExiledTidefan]

Hey, I'm with you that this is inexcusable. But I still say that there are plenty of folks besides students, alumni, and fans who would love to see Bama get "slammed" again. There are Aubie's walking around the office I sit in right now who've been blabbering about "things in Mobile not looking right" for over a year. They will spread rumors just to get the dog on the trail. When that happens, no stone goes unturned. The NCAA is a quasi-governmental organization, and thus, their folks have sorts of time to go on wild goose chases for possible violations.

What I'm saying is, if we are dealing with the NCAA, they most certainly won't quit until something, ANYTHING, turns up. Even if it means just following the trail of a rumor from a certain so-and-so down in the south Alabama area.

This has nothing to do with books, and everything to do with Bama winning. We are winning on the field, we are winning on the recruiting trail, and we are winning in the court of opinion of college football fans.

 

[alagator]

Hey, I'm with you that this is inexcusable. But I still say that there are plenty of folks besides students, alumni, and fans who would love to see Bama get "slammed" again. There are Aubie's walking around the office I sit in right now who've been blabbering about "things in Mobile not looking right" for over a year. They will spread rumors just to get the dog on the trail. When that happens, no stone goes unturned. The NCAA is a quasi-governmental organization, and thus, their folks have sorts of time to go on wild goose chases for possible violations.

What I'm saying is, if we are dealing with the NCAA, they most certainly won't quit until something, ANYTHING, turns up. Even if it means just following the trail of a rumor from a certain so-and-so down in the south Alabama area.

This has nothing to do with books, and everything to do with Bama winning. We are winning on the field, we are winning on the recruiting trail, and we are winning in the court of opinion of college football fans.

Well, if our very own people would stop being idiots and opening the door to the NCAA to 'come on in' every four or five years we would not have to worry about any 'rumors' rival fans want to spread.

I agree this is not merely about 'textbooks.' It is about the people in charge of our athletic department overlooking something as simple as monitoring a textbook distribution program that allowed unauthorized activity for THREE academic years until detected by a mere clerk at the Supe Store.

If we are so slack on that simple matter, why should the NCAA not accept our invitation to once again 'come on in' and give us yet another rectal exam? If we screw up something this simple at a time when our leaders publically profess our 'total dedication to 100% compliance' why should they trust us over the really big matters?

I am sorry to come down so hard on you, but frankly I am long past the point of understanding what the heck our people are doing. And am really tired of hearing our internal incompetence explained away as some vendetta by the NCAA.

We have shown a near two decade long pattern of either not understanding the NCAA rules or a serious disregard for following them. Is it going to actually take imposing the Death Penalty, instead of just threatening the same, on one of our athletic programs for our people (administrators/coaches/players/fans) to actually be compliant instead of paying lip service to the idea of being so? Frankly, I am to the point where I think we can not or will not learn.

 

[Guest]

Well, if our very own people would stop being idiots and opening the door to the NCAA to 'come on in' every four or five years we would not have to worry about any 'rumors' rival fans want to spread.

I agree this is not merely about 'textbooks.' It is about the people in charge of our athletic department overlooking something as simple as monitoring a textbook distribution program that allowed unauthorized activity for THREE academic years until detected by a mere clerk at the Supe Store.

If we are so slack on that simple matter, why should the NCAA not accept our invitation to once again 'come on in' and give us yet another rectal exam? If we screw up something this simple at a time when our leaders publically profess our 'total dedication to 100% compliance' why should they trust us over the really big matters?

I am sorry to come down so hard on you, but frankly I am long past the point of understanding what the heck our people are doing. And am really tired of hearing our internal incompetence explained away as some vendetta by the NCAA.

We have shown a near two decade long pattern of either not understanding the NCAA rules or a serious disregard for following them. Is it going to actually take imposing the Death Penalty, instead of just threatening the same, on one of our athletic programs for our people (administrators/coaches/players/fans) to actually be compliant instead of paying lip service to the idea of being so? Frankly, I am to the point where I think we can not or will not learn.

I agree. Where is the accountability? Alabama football is a multi-million dollar business. You think a CEO of a multi-million dollar business would have to answer for multiple violations? Heck yeah - but not at Alabama. :?

 

[bamafan4ever]

I agree. Where is the accountability? Alabama football is a multi-million dollar business. You think a CEO of a multi-million dollar business would have to answer for multiple violations? Heck yeah - but not at Alabama. :?

Insert bailout joke here....

I agree strongly with the accountability or lack thereof. I think it is time for some serious changes in the AD.

For a program that has been progressive as of late like Alabama's football program, you do have to wonder how we have managed as well as we have. Examples: Coach Saban, 2 expansions this decade to Bryant-Denny, improved student athlete facilities, fitness facilities that are second to none, etc. Most of this under some type of probation window.

On the other hand, Alabama should be ashamed at the low rent product that it produces for PPV broadcasts of games. In my opinion, the SID has always done a piss poor job in general promoting Alabama football. The Coach Saban Show is almost an embarrassment.

There are more than compliance issues at Alabama. There is a strong need for someone progressive, aggressive and innovative. If having a strong football coach is seen as a priority so should having a strong AD. It has become paramount. There is a good foundation at Alabama. We should strike while the iron is hot!

 

[TerryP]

For a program that has been progressive as of late like Alabama's football program, you do have to wonder how we have managed as well as we have. Examples: Coach Saban, 2 expansions this decade to Bryant-Denny, improved student athlete facilities, fitness facilities that are second to none, etc. Most of this under some type of probation window.

On the other hand, Alabama should be ashamed at the low rent product that it produces for PPV broadcasts of games. In my opinion, the SID has always done a piss poor job in general promoting Alabama football. The Coach Saban Show is almost an embarrassment.

There are more than compliance issues at Alabama. There is a strong need for someone progressive, aggressive and innovative. If having a strong football coach is seen as a priority so should having a strong AD. It has become paramount. There is a good foundation at Alabama. We should strike while the iron is hot!

To be fair, if you talk of two expansions of the last decade as things accomplished you should also add changing the PPV games to a better quality product as well. The cameras are being changed to Hi-Def cameras with the latest expansion. It's part of the same deal with the sound system, although I'm not sure if the camera's will be in place this season like the sound system will be.

I don't know if it's fair to call the Ath. Dept. not progressive in one sentence and then compliment the progress in the other.

Now, the Coach Saban show? First of all, I have to say I've only seen it a few times because it isn't carried here locally. And, normally, I don't take the time to watch it online. Heck, that time I'd rather spend watching the replay of the game in its entirety than highlights and comments about that game...but, that's just me.

What I do wonder is this.

You talk about the quality of the show and I wonder what/whose show you are comparing it to? Quite frankly, I can't think of any coach's show that strikes me as a top notch production.