🏈 Wow! Dabo is putting together an Alabama staff at Clemson..
- Thread starter TerryP
- Start date
Granted, the 2005 Alabama defense was outstanding and was coordinated expertly by Kines. The 2004 unit was also very good. 2006 and 2003 - not so much.
Look at his years as the DC at Georgia in the mid-to-late 1990s. His teams were soft and frequently scored upon. There is a reason he was hired by FSU as just a position coach - and would have remained there unless he was picked by Pappy Price to be our DC.
And while you cannot lay the totality of this at the feet of a mere coordinator, but Kines has been a DC in the SEC for something like fourteen or fifteen years, and one more year in the Big 12, and he has NEVER been a coach on a team that has won a conference championship in either league. And outside of less than five of those years would his units even rate in the top half of the conference in most categories.
Look, Kines coaches a 1960s style of bend-but-don't-break system that depends on the opponent making a mistake to stop someone. That worked well when college QBs were not very skilled or advanced in reading defenses. In today's game, that does not work too well without fantastic defensive talent. And most coordinators can succeed with fantastic defensive talent.
Top that off with the fact Kines is a HORRIBLE recruiter. There is a reason both FSU and us had trouble signing more than one quality LBer every year or two while he was on the respective staffs.
Great interview, for a good laugh at least. Fantastic storyteller. Average coach - or coordinator at least. Horrible recruiter. Which skill sets are more important to success of the football program?
Dabo can do better. Without trying too hard.
Look at his years as the DC at Georgia in the mid-to-late 1990s. His teams were soft and frequently scored upon. There is a reason he was hired by FSU as just a position coach - and would have remained there unless he was picked by Pappy Price to be our DC.
And while you cannot lay the totality of this at the feet of a mere coordinator, but Kines has been a DC in the SEC for something like fourteen or fifteen years, and one more year in the Big 12, and he has NEVER been a coach on a team that has won a conference championship in either league. And outside of less than five of those years would his units even rate in the top half of the conference in most categories.
Look, Kines coaches a 1960s style of bend-but-don't-break system that depends on the opponent making a mistake to stop someone. That worked well when college QBs were not very skilled or advanced in reading defenses. In today's game, that does not work too well without fantastic defensive talent. And most coordinators can succeed with fantastic defensive talent.
Top that off with the fact Kines is a HORRIBLE recruiter. There is a reason both FSU and us had trouble signing more than one quality LBer every year or two while he was on the respective staffs.
Great interview, for a good laugh at least. Fantastic storyteller. Average coach - or coordinator at least. Horrible recruiter. Which skill sets are more important to success of the football program?
Dabo can do better. Without trying too hard.
Not too sure I'd want to follow the Sly Croom method of choosing Staff......didn't work out too well for him.
As far a Coach Kines is concerned, Dabo could do a lot worse. CJK has a world of experience for a young HC to lean on, including HC experience. I think he's shown that with decent personnel, he can field a championship quality D. I'd shudder to think where we would have been under Shula without the steady presence of Joe Kines. Great hire, IMO.
As far a Coach Kines is concerned, Dabo could do a lot worse. CJK has a world of experience for a young HC to lean on, including HC experience. I think he's shown that with decent personnel, he can field a championship quality D. I'd shudder to think where we would have been under Shula without the steady presence of Joe Kines. Great hire, IMO.
TerryP said:
Well, Terry. The call might have been Ball's, but he was not the person in charge of the defense - that was Kines was it not?
If Kines did not approve the call, then all he had to do was make another one instead. But the reality is that, regardless of who suggested or made the call, the decision to apply ZERO pressure and play a soft zone behind a three man containment rush fit perfectly into a decade-plus pattern preferred by Kines.
This is beginning to sound like the attacks constantly made by the administrators of the Tidefans.com site against Bob Connelly and his teaching of the 'bucket step technique' all the while excusing Radar and Shula from allowing a position coach to teach a flawed and failed style.
The only conclusion there was that a position coach had cowed his coordinator and Head Coach bosses into doing something they knew was unsound. Is it now that Ball had cowed Kines and Kines was not responsible? What does that say about the calming and stabilizing influence of Kines on a staff of young bucks?
Ball reported to Shula on his calls on just about everything including things in his personal life.
I've never seen a guys head so far up another mans...
You get the picture.
My opinion on Kines is as follows...considering the cards he was dealt and the people he was surrounded by, he did a hell of a job as our DC.
HOWEVER, he was dealt a defensive hand that have a few aces...we see that now on the NFL level but they never reached the potential they could have with the right staff in place.
I've never seen a guys head so far up another mans...
You get the picture.
My opinion on Kines is as follows...considering the cards he was dealt and the people he was surrounded by, he did a hell of a job as our DC.
HOWEVER, he was dealt a defensive hand that have a few aces...we see that now on the NFL level but they never reached the potential they could have with the right staff in place.
TerryP said:
And Kines was the major part of that staff that limited that potential with his passive style of play. A style that predated his time at Alabama.
Unless we start using some tangible numbers we are both just talking our opinions and perceptions. I stand by the fact that in roughly 16 years as a DC at such programs as Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Alabama again, and Texas A&M (not exactly the Vanderbilts, and South Carolinas, and Baylors of their respective leagues) Kines has never been the coordinator of a conference championship team and on only one or two occasions a conference leading defense. You would think the law of averages would have improved those odds for even a blind hog - much less a top-tier coordinator.
I
imported_Porter
LOL... Dabo is way too predictable (even his double reverse passes are predictable). Or, maybe it is that nobody wants to step in that bear trap and work under him, so he HAS to hire those guys.
http://www.crimsontusks.com/about34886
http://www.crimsontusks.com/about34886
G
Guest
BamaDelta said:
Kirby is DC now.
Steele had his title changed and his responsibilities changed last year. One of the contributing reasons was he wanted to spend less time on the road recruiting.
IF, Steele ends up leaving, based on the staff we have now, it would be Kirby's defense.
The likely move would be to hire an inside linebackers coach.
The other possible move would be Lance Thompson takes over the entire group of LB'ers, and we bring in another secondary coach. Although, that's not something I would expect.
G
Guest
TerryP said:
Yes, I knew Kirby was and is DC. I guess I don't understand the dynamics of the responsibilities with Steele being Associate Head Coach and Head Defensive Coach. Maybe I'm thinking Steele was more a part of the D than he is. I guess I assumed currently the D is a product of Steele and Smart. Obviously if Steele left it would be all Kirby's.
I'm not taking anything away from Steele. Don't misunderstand me. He's a hell of a coach.
Saban's defense: You could almost consider Steele and Smart to be Co-DC's. It's a joint effort between the two of them
All that said...I wouldn't expect to see any drop off if he does leave.
We'll see. But, like we talked about 3-4 weeks ago, him leaving shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.
Saban's defense: You could almost consider Steele and Smart to be Co-DC's. It's a joint effort between the two of them
All that said...I wouldn't expect to see any drop off if he does leave.
We'll see. But, like we talked about 3-4 weeks ago, him leaving shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.
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