🏈 What's your thought(s) on this hypothetical: Saban pressures AL schools to cancel summer camps.

[TerryP]

This isn't the first time this has happened in Louisiana this year and that's the reason I'm bringing this up for debate.

Let's assume, shall we, that South Alabama decides to hold a camp where some coaches from out-of-state schools are scheduled to attend. But, the University of Alabama exerts pressure against the school and forces them to cancel their camps. What would your opinion be of AD Byrne and Coach Saban if they orchestrated such a move?

Cowardly?
Protecting the "border?"
Looking out for the best interest of the University of Alabama?
He's (Saban) lost it?

There are a number of theories being pushed as to why smaller schools in Louisiana are having to cancel their summer football camps. When the first report broke, there was a slight suggestion Orgeron was doing this to keep the "borders of Louisiana" closed to outside schools.

Thamel, in his most recent report, suggests that the LSU administration is behind the pressure. (You can read the article from the Tweet below.) From an outside perspective, how do you view that move?

Personally, I see this as counterproductive. It seems to me a coach is running a huge risk of alienating high school coaches, as well as the smaller school's coaching staff's, by handicapping their programs' recruiting efforts.

I also can't escape the thought that Orge has his focus in the wrong place(s.) Out of state schools were going into LA and plucking players that fit the positions of need long before these summer camps cropped up (in the form we see them today.) I'm wondering if he is thinking "all I need to do to improve the program is keep players in state." What happens when he's looking for that running back, or quarterback, and finds the state's talent level that class lower than normal? Is he going to go out of state and try to recruit a kid when he's already alienated other programs?

I'm led to think this is just a small example of a bigger picture: he's in over his head and we're beginning to see signs of his tenure begin to unravel.

 

[rammerjammer]

I think it is a two-edged sword.

With Saban as our coach, I think that camps can be held and done however the school sees fit. Saban is excellent and no matter what, will land his share of top rated talent regardless of who comes into his back yard. I also think that the high school coach has an obligation to the student, and if he really cares about the player/student he wants them to go to the next level, no matter where it is. He also should look for every opportunity to get his player exposure.

On the other side, I can remember back to our wonderful Shula/Franchione/Dubose years and I feel as though I would side with the "protecting our borders" mindset. When your coach is not the best at landing talent, you have to do what you have to do. Recruiting is cut-throat and you are always looking for an advantage.


How bout that for straddling the fence? Do I have a shot at being a politician?

 

[TUSKtimes]

I don't think even coach Saban can duplicate this pettiness with football dynamics being what they are in Alabama. The barners make this a 2 horse state and we need to recruit nationally to maintain the level of talent we are accustom to. I don't think Saban wants to create a tit for tat with college coaches. Makes you wonder if Orgeron will feel that reprisal now for himself?

But I certainly agree with your big picture analysis of how Orgeron is looking from the high school coaches perspective. They know most of their next level recruits will not be offered by LSU and could soon resent missed opportunities. Besides, the blue chippers are who Orgeron wants to close the borders to and he will never stop the 4 and 5-star recruit from taking their visits and camping where he chooses. I learned a long time ago, don't ever try to tell grown people what they can't do.

 

[alabama mike]

@TerryP

I think you answered the biggest question, "Personally, I see this as counterproductive. It seems to me a coach is running a huge risk of alienating high school coaches, as well as the smaller school's coaching staff's, by handicapping their programs' recruiting efforts." Let these guys have their camps because Alabama cannot and will not take all of them.

 

[Bamabww]

in LSU's case, desperate times calls for desperate measures. I think it will bite them in the ass but that's where they're at now.

 

[BAMANEWSBOT]

- LSU’s pressure on other in-state schools hosting satellite camps has struck again.

Several out-of-state schools have seen satellite camps at Louisiana schools canceled in part due to political pressure from LSU on in-state schools. The most recent involves Hal Mumme at Belhaven, which was set to hold a camp this week at a high school and include Texas, Houston and others.

After Sports Illustrated wrote about the camp and the pressure, the camp was canceled. SI’s Pete Thamel reported Mumme was unhappy with Ed Orgeron, and the cancelation costs Belhaven $5,000. It’s the third satellite camp in Louisiana involving Texas that has been canceled in recent weeks.

News, Notes & Quotes - June 14

 

[TerryP]

But I certainly agree with your big picture analysis of how Orgeron is looking from the high school coaches perspective.

A few weeks ago I made mention of a comment Orge made about the time he spent at Ole Miss and how he was watching Miles and thinking about what the LSU job was all about...how much he'd enjoy that position, etc. My first thought was along the lines of "why is he focused on another school when he's just been given an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach?" The focus just wasn't there was my final interpretation.

Now, with this, I'm wondering where his head is and your comment touches on part of these musings. Is he thinking of the fan base and their perspective? We're just a few months away from media members in Louisiana talking about how many LSU had lost to Bama in the past class. Is that where his focus is? Right now, out of the top 10 in state, three are committed elsewhere. (Emphasis on right now.)

I've seen nothing that makes me worry about the coaching staff at LSU. However, I don't want to see them drop further down the food chain in the SEC.

 

[TerryP]

Let these guys have their camps because Alabama cannot and will not take all of them.

Neither can LSU.

But why worry about Herman and Texas coming in for a day or two? We're talking about a state that has a lot of talent as well as talking about the flagship school of the state.

 

[TUSKtimes]

A few weeks ago I made mention of a comment Orge made about the time he spent at Ole Miss and how he was watching Miles and thinking about what the LSU job was all about...how much he'd enjoy that position, etc. My first thought was along the lines of "why is he focused on another school when he's just been given an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach?" The focus just wasn't there was my final interpretation.

Now, with this, I'm wondering where his head is and your comment touches on part of these musings. Is he thinking of the fan base and their perspective? We're just a few months away from media members in Louisiana talking about how many LSU had lost to Bama in the past class. Is that where his focus is? Right now, out of the top 10 in state, three are committed elsewhere. (Emphasis on right now.)

I've seen nothing that makes me worry about the coaching staff at LSU. However, I don't want to see them drop further down the food chain in the SEC.

Les Miles had the offense wrong but I thought he did a great job of making his program all about LSU. I think where Orgeron is falling into the same trap of a lot of SEC coaches is making it all about an Alabama or someone or something else besides just focusing on his team. I thought to get the job he felt compelled to promote himself as the new and improved anti-Miles, but he honestly looks like a man still running for office.

 

[TerryP]

comment Orge made about the time he spent at Ole Miss and how he was watching Miles and thinking about what the LSU job was all about

I think where Orgeron is falling into the same trap of a lot of SEC coaches is making it all about an Alabama or someone or something else besides just focusing on his team

Therein is one of my suspicions. It's not a recipe for success on the field, but will likely do wonders for how the fan base feels about him ...

...

until the season draws to a close and they see another 5-3 type season on the books (if that.)

 

[UAgrad93]

I wouldn't see Saban even giving this a moment of thought. We recruit at such a national level as it is and we seem to cherry pick those in state kids if they fit our type of kid.
Ogreron has BAMA and Saban in that little mind so bad just like their fanbase. In the end, I think the HS coaches will see what he is doing and really express their displeasure as well. While a school like La Monroe might have a Texas in the list, there will be 10-12 more staffs from small FBS and FCS schools that could pick up some of the lesser talented kids and give them a shot at chasing their dreams.

 

[BAMANEWSBOT]

Head coach Ed Orgeron is serious about protecting his recruiting turf in Louisiana. (AP)
Top football prospects in the state of Louisiana ought to be doing one thing right now – researching everything they can about the University of Texas football program and then searching for a way to get over to Austin for a visit.

The Longhorns apparently have so much going for themselves that if coach Tom Herman even wades across the Sabine River, the LSU Tigers might collapse in ruins.

Don’t take my word for it. Take the actions of LSU head coach Ed Orgeron. Stricken by a case of myopia, Orgeron is being blamed for getting a third high school football camp canceled in his state because Herman’s Longhorns and some other schools were going to be there.

“Paranoid Ed,” is how Hal Mumme, the former Kentucky coach now in charge of D-III Belhaven University (Miss.), described Orgeron to Scout.com and that sure sounds about right.

A quick primer over this controversy. In recent years college football programs around the country have created so-called “satellite camps” – single-day events so their coaching staffs can get out into particular areas and potentially scout a player they would have otherwise missed.

Schools usually team up, with a slew of D-I programs working a camp ostensibly hosted by a local Division III program. Just about any high school kid can attend for a small fee. It allows players of all levels of ability – from five-star to maybe a D-III prospect – a reason to come out and learn a little football and maybe brush shoulders with some famous head coach. It cuts down on travel, cost and commitment for the players and their families. If nothing else, kids often get motivated to work on both their games and their college academic eligibility. With any luck, a few will get discovered and offered a scholarship.

No player has to attend. Usually everyone has a good time. It’s a win-win for everyone, especially when the camps are held in rural areas where opportunity doesn’t always knock. It’s virtually impossible to find a negative here.

“It was for sure LSU,” Mumme told Scout. “And I think it’s a shame for an SEC school to pick on a D-III school that relies on these kinds of camps to recruit kids and give them opportunities. What they did was they pressured every facility in the state not to let us use it. And they were successful – at depriving some kids in Louisiana an opportunity.”

Mumme is correct. By using its influence over other public colleges in the state, as well as area high schools, Orgeron is trying to limit competition for in-state players. It is, as Mumme announced, unfair to state residents because it also limits opportunity.

Parents and high school coaches should speak out. Orgeron was named head coach at LSU last winter, not state nanny.
While the unapologetically cutthroat ethos of college football is one of its enduring charms, this is shortsighted. It speaks to a coach who fears beating state schools for in-state talent, a rather peculiar note to strike especially for an otherwise charismatic guy who works at a place that almost always dominates on signing day.

It is another sign of how out of whack priorities can get when college football is involved.

“Protecting the state of Louisiana is always going to be my job as the coach of LSU,” Orgeron said early this spring.


Yes, he’s paid handsomely to win football games for the Tigers and a line like that is always a winner on the chicken dinner booster circuit. It’s also ridiculous.

Protect the state of Louisiana from whom exactly … universities of all sizes and shapes eager to unearth some high school kid and give them a scholarship?

LSU can’t take all the players in the state. LSU doesn’t want all the players in the state. The players don’t all want LSU. It’s OK. If Orgeron was comfortable in his abilities, he’d welcome that.

The idea that Cornell, out of the Ivy League, isn’t going to be in Hammond on Thursday, possibly connecting with some player who probably otherwise would never get on its radar – or the Big Red on his – is absurd. There is no threat to LSU football.

Not even mighty Texas is going to steal all the players – and even if the Longhorns do, it’s not a crime that a young man and his family decided to attend a prestigious university across state lines.

Could a satellite camp help the Longhorns get another player or two a year out of Louisiana? Sure. There’s a reason Herman was coming after all. Will it dramatically change the fortunes of college football? So far, they haven’t made that big of a difference. Besides, Interstate 10 runs both ways and no one is, or ever should, stop Orgeron from running his own camps from Beaumont to El Paso.

Just go compete. LSU has plenty to sell too.

That Orgeron is so troubled by Texas is probably the best compliment and recruiting card he could present Herman, who is trying to revive a sleeping powerhouse.

If LSU is so scared of him coming to Hammond for a weekday afternoon in June, then maybe everyone should find a way to get over to Austin and see just what it is that is so intimidating.

LSU's Ed Orgeron isn't his state's nanny, so protests over satellite camps are laughable

 

[TerryP]

Protect the state of Louisiana from whom exactly … universities of all sizes and shapes eager to unearth some high school kid and give them a scholarship?

LSU can’t take all the players in the state. LSU doesn’t want all the players in the state. The players don’t all want LSU. It’s OK. If Orgeron was comfortable in his abilities, he’d welcome that.

“Paranoid Ed,” is how Hal Mumme, the former Kentucky coach now in charge of D-III Belhaven University (Miss.), described Orgeron to Scout.com and that sure sounds about right.

It's a rare occurrence I find myself agreeing with Wetzel, or Mumme for that matter.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

It's always great when u get somebody worrying about things they cant control...
LSU and O cant control Saban and Bama...They can only sit by the fire and wait for the flames to wither .... They had their shot...fools should have paid Jimbo what he wanted..

 

[alagator]

fools should have paid Jimbo what he wanted..

If we believe what's reported, LSU offered 6.8 million. His new contact with FSU pays him 5.5 million which was a raise of $250,000.

What conclusions can we draw from that?
1- the reports of the first offer of 6 million, then 6.8 million were wrong.
2- it wasn't about money, LSU never received a second thought from Fisher.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

If we believe what's reported, LSU offered 6.8 million. His new contact with FSU pays him 5.5 million which was a raise of $250,000.

What conclusions can we draw from that?
1- the reports of the first offer of 6 million, then 6.8 million were wrong.
2- it wasn't about money, LSU never received a second thought from Fisher.

Well we dont know...and never will..".but the reports were....thats what he wanted...but LSU said no...while FSU is a good job...LSU is an awesome...top 5..job....
Of course he could have been leveraging FSU....
I believe....that UT or AU will go after him with Sabanish money if their programs falter in the next couple of years... time will tell...

 

[alagator]

Well we dont know...and never will..".but the reports were....thats what he wanted...but LSU said no...while FSU is a good job...LSU is an awesome...top 5..job....

No, that's not the case.

LSU focuses on Houston's Tom Herman after Jimbo Fisher balks at $6.8M per year offer

LSU focuses on Houston's Tom Herman after Jimbo Fisher balks at $6.8M per year offer

LSU's coaching search to replace Les Miles is in full swing and likely will be wrapped up by the end of the weekend.

School administrators had been in contract negotiations with Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher for the majority of the week, according to multiple sources with knowledge of LSU's coaching search. But LSU shifted its focus to Houston's Tom Herman midday Wednesday after reaching an impasse with Fisher and his representatives.

It's a credit to Orgeron, who was 5-2 in his seven games as interim and the Tigers, who finished the regular season 7-4 overall and 5-3 in the SEC's West Division, that LSU had a season-high in points and 624 yards under such dire circumstances.

Three sources with knowledge of the negotiations said LSU was prepared to pay $6 million a year for Fisher and upped the ante to $6.8 million annually for the former Tigers assistant. But even that number was not enough to sway Fisher's camp, led by agent Jimmy Sexton. Fisher is making $5.25 million this season.

LSU's administrators, most notably athletic director Joe Alleva, wanted a deal with Fisher done by Wednesday. When it did not happen, Alleva turned his focus to Herman. LSU has been in contact with Herman's representatives for well over a month, but the talks "really heated up early Wednesday afternoon," according to a source close to Herman, when Fisher fell through.

Multiple media outlets reported LSU zeroing in on Herman, who makes $3 million annually, during the Tigers' game with Texas A&M on Thanksgiving night, much to the chagrin of Alleva. The dynamics behind the leak are as intriguing as the coaching search itself.

 

[TerryP]

@50+yeartidefan This is second hand info but if you think about it the story makes a lot of sense.

We've had a family come through Tuscaloosa where the father, mother, and their sons played for UA in different sports. They are from Memphis and live next door to Jimmy Sexton, Fisher's agent.

According to them Sexton said Fisher has little regard for Joe Alleva (and using the word little may be me being gracious.) Some of it has to do with how he handled Miles the last two seasons. Some has to do with how Miles played Alleva when the alleged "job offer" from Arkansas was being floated around. Some of it has to do with how Alleva has his focus on things like Bama, instead of the overall health of the football program.

Bottom line, according to what I've been told it wasn't a case of money. It was a case of who his boss would be in Baton Rouge.

...LSU is an awesome...top 5..job....

I have to disagree with you here.

The LSU head coaching job may be a top ten job. Maybe. In my opinion it's certainly not a top five job. At best, it ranks as the third best job in the SEC alone behind Bama and Florida. One could argue it falls below Georgia.

Then we add schools like Ohio State, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan...now we can start discussing if it's even a top 10 job. It's a good job, no doubt. With the right guy at the helm, a great job. But, they don't have that guy running their athletic department right now.

**You want a question to ponder for a bit? Would Joe Alleva or Jay Jacobs be the best Athletic Director if you had to choose one of the two?

 

[RTB X Bot]

 

[50+yeartidefan]

I haveread the story....Agreed Herman was in equations....and that gave LSU bargaining power...they thought..but not buying the story completely...now if the reason to not work for Alleva was worth 1-2 million.....thats a wow...probably more in line with Fisher wanting Saban-ish control...Alleva wasn't giving on that...
Plus....lets add in...Coach O.... not successful at last stop...Ole MS...was 5-2 as interim...
There are a lot out there that would have jumped at 6-7 million....i would guess...
Never will believe thats the best a top 5 (or 10) program could do... i know we did Dubose...how did that turn out?????

I think if you built a matrix of schools and program rankings....LSU would be top 5 or close...cant disagree with any listed
but...money...tradition..fan base..control of state...political control...quality of HS program....population....flag ship program..
You listed FL...3 major schools in state...4-5-6 more mid majors... OK n Mich..dont agree completely ..but LSU is right there with OSU, Texas, Bama, USC, .....but agree Alleva isnt who I would want to work for...(we have had some I didnt care for either)...
Imagine if you will...Saban staying at LSU!!!!! But I have always thought....LSU and UGA are the most under achievers....Couldnt happen to a better group..
Fun discussions though...no right..no wrongs..cause we dont know ALL...

Ok...Alleva or Jacobs...Jacobs easy....AU will do ANYTHING to keep up with BAMA....no limit.... Period. If AU falters and is mediocre....or worse....(and with their schedule and coaching and roster it's possible) the checkbooks are coming out in Lee county....and not just for coaches,.....