📡 Western Illinois shows a big downside to the early signing period

[alagator]

The early signing period has been touted as a chance for kids who are firmly committed to their future schools to get the signing process over with earlier and solidify their futures. It’s a noble idea, but the December timing of it has some flaws. And Fisher is exposing a massive one.

With the signing period happening in December, there are still a lot of coaching vacancies around college football. Some new coaches, like Arizona State’s Herm Edwards, are still assembling staffs. And those coaches have to come from other schools — coaches who have been recruiting players to play at those schools.

Another reason I'm a fan of the ESD being before the season. "Touted as a chance for kids who are fimly committed to their future schools to get the signing day over with." No mention of how much of this time is dead.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

Head coach retires..quits..is fired..takes another job....before kid has at least one seasonat school...
Letter is void... kid can re start recruiting

 

[EasyTider]

Head coach retires..quits..is fired..takes another job....before kid has at least one seasonat school...
Letter is void... kid can re start recruiting

Is that a rules suggestion or the actual rule? Seems like a good one.

 

[TerryP]

Is that a rules suggestion or the actual rule? Seems like a good one.

It's his suggestion. The LOI is binding, period.

IF there was another rule passed (as if we need more NCAA regulations) how is it going to read? "If the coach quits/retires/etc. before the signing day in February the player is free?

 

[Tidestalker]

This is nothing new to the early signing day.

Coaches leave all the time for all kinds of reasons with no commitment to the student athletes they've recruited. What's the difference if it's 1 day, 1 year, or 3 years? Either way the kid has to handle coaching changes and adjust accordingly.

This is why it's so important for the kids to educate themselves on where they're potentially signing. Most coaching situations are in 1 of 3 stages - Well established / Marginal AKA could leave or get fired / Lame duck. Not too many of the #1's around, but if that's your main priority find your best option. If Western Illinois was your best option, then be excited to get school paid for and impress the new Coach.

Ultimately there's no one to feel sorry for here. NO ONE IS MAKING THE KIDS SIGN EARLY. If this is something to worry about, don't sign. As far as these cry baby coaches who love to impact public perception to make their jobs easier... They can suck it up and do 2 things at once. 6/7 figure salaries to coach a game, deal with it.

Until there is something to hold a coaches contract as binding as the LOI kids sign, anything that gives a kid more options in the NCAA landscape is a good thing. Coaches don't have to recruit them, players don't have to sign. This just gives them the option of sewing up a spot early that may or may not be there in the Spring, helps them understand who's seriously recruiting them and who's leading them on, and/or alleviating some stress so they can focus on other stuff kids do. So sick of the Nick Saban / Jim Boehim / Roy Williams / Urban Mayer egotistical cry baby rants about how something isn't in their favor.

 

[TheChief]

Nick's getting paid to try and put things in his favor. I'm glad he's doing his job.

 

[Tidestalker]

Nick's getting paid to try and put things in his favor. I'm glad he's doing his job.

Completely agree. Just like any topic - All depends on what your priorities are or your level of objectivity.

Would be a funny experiment to see how quickly people's opinion on this forum would change if Nick Saban was all for it... Praising the studs he's signed and how he doesn't have to spend the next 2 months babysitting 15 dudes... Or how they get to be high school kids for a semester...etc.

Not sure how long it will last though. The coaches in college sports swing big sticks. Maybe 1 more year?

 

[TerryP]

Would be a funny experiment to see how quickly people's opinion on this forum would change if Nick Saban was all for it...

He was for the ESD ON a date that actually made sense. He was right down to the dotted "I's" and crossed "T's."

The early signing period has been touted as a chance for kids who are firmly committed to their future schools to get the signing process over with earlier and solidify their futures.​

​

This new rule eliminates less than three weeks of allowable contact with recruits: Symbolism over substance.

This is why it's so important for the kids to educate themselves

I'm betting each and every one of these kids have told people "don't call me again." We see kids say "I'm closing down my recruiting." We see recruiting analyst say "no contact with him because he's closed contact with coaches off." Kids today, in 2018, can't do what other kids have done for years?

(Seriously, give me a freakin' break with this "avoid pressure so they can concentrate on their senior seasons." It has done NOTHING to eliminate that.)

If they don't want the pressure those 14-15 days don't answer the freakin' phone. Otherwise, we're left sitting here looking a rule that does very, very little when looking at the picture as a whole.

 

[Tidestalker]

He was for the ESD ON a date that actually made sense. He was right down to the dotted "I's" and crossed "T's."

The early signing period has been touted as a chance for kids who are firmly committed to their future schools to get the signing process over with earlier and solidify their futures.​

​

This new rule eliminates less than three weeks of allowable contact with recruits: Symbolism over substance.



I'm betting each and every one of these kids have told people "don't call me again." We see kids say "I'm closing down my recruiting." We see recruiting analyst say "no contact with him because he's closed contact with coaches off." Kids today, in 2018, can't do what other kids have done for years?

(Seriously, give me a freakin' break with this "avoid pressure so they can concentrate on their senior seasons." It has done NOTHING to eliminate that.)

If they don't want the pressure those 14-15 days don't answer the freakin' phone. Otherwise, we're left sitting here looking a rule that does very, very little when looking at the picture as a whole.

How many coaches are following up with these signed kids after the early NSD? I'd guess a grand total of 0. So yes, it will eliminate that pressure for at least 7 weeks (between NSD's - not sure how many of those days are dead period). That's still progress.

In regards to Saban, yes he was for it for the same reasons it still makes sense despite his disagreement with the timing. Maybe not as emphasized, but all the same reasons. Just happens push him to double duty at a stressful time and he doesn't like that.

I'm all for moving up the NSD as early as anyone wants to. Hell leave this one too. Have 10 of them. From my perspective this may not be perfect but it's clearly progress... Would have been great for kids like OJ Smith who thought they were committed but were on Saban's grease board as a "grey shirt option" if the staff can find better players down the road. They would have had to tell him on Dec 17th he couldn't sign instead of the last minute on Feb 5th when everyone else's classes were filling up also.

 

[TUSKtimes]

At this point, I'm not feeling the debate. Last year Alabama signed 16 recruits early and we had the #1 class in the nation. This season we signed 14 guys early and we have about as many recruits out there to worry about as we basically did last season. Coach Saban will figure out the difference soon enough.

 

[TerryP]

How many coaches are following up with these signed kids after the early NSD? I'd guess a grand total of 0. So yes, it will eliminate that pressure for at least 7 weeks (between NSD's - not sure how many of those days are dead period). That's still progress.

It's basically three weeks. I've repeatedly pointed to that, stalker. The dead period started on the 18th, the first early signing day was on the 20th. The dead period last until the 11th of January. (The 5th through the 7th is a quiet period.) Another quiet period on the 4th of Feb, then back to dead on the 5th with NSD on the 7th.

At this point, I'm not feeling the debate. Last year Alabama signed 16 recruits early and we had the #1 class in the nation. This season we signed 14 guys early and we have about as many recruits out there to worry about as we basically did last season. Coach Saban will figure out the difference soon enough.

There was no early signing period last year. Perhaps that has something to do with your inability to "feel the debate?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tidestalker]

It's basically three weeks. I've repeatedly pointed to that, stalker. The dead period started on the 18th, the first early signing day was on the 20th. The dead period last until the 11th of January. (The 5th through the 7th is a quiet period.) Another quiet period on the 4th of Feb, then back to dead on the 5th with NSD on the 7th.

Like I said, progress!!!

What you won't address is how the early period certainly helps multiple offer kids understand who has prioritized them and who hasn't. The less non-offer "offers" the better for high school kids. College coaches should be more believable than politicians.

 

[TUSKtimes]

There was no early signing period last year. Perhaps that has something to do with your inability to "feel the debate?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Semantics, my friend, just semantics. Most of the hay had been gathered and in the barn by January. The fact that it left about the same percentage of Feb signees to be concerned with is food for thought.

 

[TerryP]

Like I said, progress!!!

I suppose it's progress. If I took one step climbing the Statue of Liberty I could call that progress as well. :naughtydevil:

I consider how this was started by the media stating how it would make it easier on kids and I see very, very little in its current form. To me, we're seeing the end result of a "play" to add another TV viewing day. (And that only worked in certain conferences. The PAC had no coverage at all of the ESD.)

What you won't address is how the early period certainly helps multiple offer kids understand who has prioritized them and who hasn't. The less non-offer "offers" the better for high school kids. College coaches should be more believable than politicians.

How are they not informed of what their offer is now at Bama? Commits aren't accepted until Saban speaks with the player. A vast majority of the "offers" made by Bama are offers contingent on appearing in camp. (Which we witnessed first hand these last few months.) It's been that way since Saban arrived. There are committable offers at Bama. There have been since day one with Saban. And, you'll find those committable offers given to kids with multiple offers.

 

[TerryP]

Semantics, my friend, just semantics.

I don't see how you can use "semantics" here when you're using last year as an example of how the ESD worked well. Verbiage, my friend, verbiage.

Most of the hay had been gathered and in the barn by January. The fact that it left about the same percentage of Feb signees to be concerned with is food for thought.

Relieving the coaches of having to follow up on those kids is a plus. Adding the extra work involved for the same coaches washes it out.

Personally, I see too many negatives when compared to "a kid locks his place up." I don't see a soul, outside of me, pointing to the added responsibilities it's placed on high school coaches. Who, by the way, have lost money due to the new recruiting rules.

 

[Tidestalker]

I suppose it's progress. If I took one step climbing the Statue of Liberty I could call that progress as well. :naughtydevil:

I consider how this was started by the media stating how it would make it easier on kids and I see very, very little in its current form. To me, we're seeing the end result of a "play" to add another TV viewing day. (And that only worked in certain conferences. The PAC had no coverage at all of the ESD.)


How are they not informed of what their offer is now at Bama? Commits aren't accepted until Saban speaks with the player. A vast majority of the "offers" made by Bama are offers contingent on appearing in camp. (Which we witnessed first hand these last few months.) It's been that way since Saban arrived. There are committable offers at Bama. There have been since day one with Saban. And, you'll find those committable offers given to kids with multiple offers.

Been a looooong time since those offers were issued at camp. Lots of moving and shaking since. Commitments and de commitments at positions.

I'll put it this way - There are multiple kids on Feb signing day that were issued offers who want to commit to Alabama, but can't. If you disagree we can agree to disagree. But the point is, if they want to sign now they at least know earlier where they truly stand. And there are still spots left at other schools they're interested in.

Less musical chairs on Feb 7th (obviously still some). More up front honesty on December. I dig it

 

[TerryP]

There are multiple kids on Feb signing day that were issued offers who want to commit to Alabama, but can't

This is true each and every year. But, they know whether or not they can commit. How more up front can you be by telling them we're interested but we're also looking at limited numbers and limited positions?

 

[Tidestalker]

This is true each and every year. But, they know whether or not they can commit. How more up front can you be by telling them we're interested but we're also looking at limited numbers and limited positions?

If you believe that's what they're being told from day 1. But it's not.

Do you really think their initial offer is: "We are offering you a scholarship! But you may or may not be able to commit depending on the people we have in front of you". Of course it's not. lol

I completely understand the fluctuations on a recruiting board... My point is, when things change, these coaches aren't calling kids and telling them it's changed. Only when the kid goes to commit and/or sign does that news get dropped. And that's the truth. So when they're stringing a kid along for 3-4 months and he doesn't know better, it leaves a recruit X in a bind on the days leading up to Feb signing day (or even on the day).

If there is an earlier signing day and the staff is iffy on a kid that wants to sign - They aren't going to let him. At that point he has 6 weeks to figure it out with 10 spots left at XYZ school, instead of 1 week and rushed trip to Miss St. or 1 day and he's signing at Arkansas.

Again, not perfect... But progress. I'd love to see that day get moved up because it would minimize even more half ass offers. I'm all for it

 

[TUSKtimes]

I don't see how you can use "semantics" here when you're using last year as an example of how the ESD worked well. Verbiage, my friend, verbiage.



Relieving the coaches of having to follow up on those kids is a plus. Adding the extra work involved for the same coaches washes it out.

Personally, I see too many negatives when compared to "a kid locks his place up." I don't see a soul, outside of me, pointing to the added responsibilities it's placed on high school coaches. Who, by the way, have lost money due to the new recruiting rules.

The financial repercussions on the high school coach? You have truly taken a Saban preference to scientific heights.

The only credible argument I've heard from the anti-ESD apologist is that we might miss out on the next Josh Jacobs out there, somewhere. Here's a thought, maybe coach Saban has already found that unknown, overlooked player a little earlier with a Jerome Ford, or Slade Bolden? With ESD maybe we don't lose a Brandon Ruiz, Tony Conners, Von Bell, etc, etc.

 

[TerryP]

The financial repercussions on the high school coach? You have truly taken a Saban preference to scientific heights.

You have to pay closer attention to details. With the new legislation high school coaches are no longer allowed to work summer camps. They were paid to do so.

If they can't work those camps they aren't getting paid. Hence, they've lost money. That;s not to mention the extra hours they have to put in from when school officially closes for the holidays therein losing part of their vacation.

With ESD maybe we don't lose a Brandon Ruiz, Tony Conners, Von Bell, etc, etc

Maybe. It's a hypothetical assuming schools would have received commitments then versus what they'll get now.