| FTBL Tua vs. "top" defenses

[JoshB]

I'm sure we've all heard everyone's favorite talking points about Tua now, #1 he sucks against "good defenses" and #2 he is injury prone. The stats that get thrown up Ad nauseam now is the "vs. Top 25 defenses":

TUA vs. Top 25 defenses (2018)

• LSU (#25 overall) - 25/42, 295 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT; 49 yards rushing, 1 TD (29-0 win, four weeks after knee injury)
• Mississippi State (#1 overall) - 14/21, 169 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT (24-0 win, five weeks after knee injury)
• Georgia (#14 overall) - 10/25, 164 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT (35-28 win, injured ankle on first drive and then injured it further later)
• Clemson (#4 overall) - 22/34, 295 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT (struggled throughout, loss)

But when you expand that to Top 50 defenses...
TUA vs. Top 50 defenses (2018)

• Texas A&M (#32 defense) - 22/30, 387 yards, 4 TD, 1 rushing TD (pre injury, 45-23 win)
• Auburn (#35 defense) - 25/32, 324 yards, 5 TD, 1 rushing TD (more than a month after initial injury, 52-21 win)
• Arkansas State (#45 defense) - 13/19, 228 yards, 4 TD (before injury, 57-7 win)
• Tennessee (#49 defense) - 19, 29, 306 yards, 4 TD (two weeks after knee injury, 58-21 win)

Of course that doesn't benefit the narrative, so obviously the narrative is now "only Top 25 defenses" are good ones I guess (of course pointing out how he absolutely torched two other Top 35 defenses doesn't help this talking point either). I also think you have to take into account the knee (and then ankle) injury that clearly affected him down the stretch, which brings us to the #2 talking point. I dont think its really fair to call him "injury prone" - the first one was a pretty freak accident - but regardless the added muscle mass can only help him.

 

[TerryP]

That's not a lot different than the narrative we've seen pushed about how bad the defense was last season. I have said a few times the entire season is unfairly characterized based on one game. A bad game, no doubt, but still one game.

Consider how often we heard about how good the Oklahoma offense was last year. I don't recall hearing generational talent, like we do Tua, but I do recall hearing people talk about their offense being historically good. And, that's true. Why bring up OU? There's only one team that did better against the Sooners on defense than Bama and that's Army (who coincidentally had the ball in their possession about 80% of that game.

I don't see mention of how well they did against UGA's offense holding them to one score while the offense got their act together. Or, how only one team in the SEC (you've mentioned here) that gave up less than 300 YPG average against SEC competition.

Just to add a stat ... UA went into the NC game ranked #2 in defensive efficiency. That's not a bad defense.

 

[mando]

That's not a lot different than the narrative we've seen pushed about how bad the defense was last season. I have said a few times the entire season is unfairly characterized based on one game. A bad game, no doubt, but still one game.

Consider how often we heard about how good the Oklahoma offense was last year. I don't recall hearing generational talent, like we do Tua, but I do recall hearing people talk about their offense being historically good. And, that's true. Why bring up OU? There's only one team that did better against the Sooners on defense than Bama and that's Army (who coincidentally had the ball in their possession about 80% of that game.

I don't see mention of how well they did against UGA's offense holding them to one score while the offense got their act together. Or, how only one team in the SEC (you've mentioned here) that gave up less than 300 YPG average against SEC competition.

Just to add a stat ... UA went into the NC game ranked #2 in defensive efficiency. That's not a bad defense.

@TerryP I am one that expressed concern with last years defense. It is not that it was bad but it was not up to the standard set by past Saban defenses (my perception). Sure they were better than other defenses but they did not smother them like we have seen with some of Sabans defenses. Maybe that is unfair with the current day offenses but that is where I come from.

One other point from last year that reinforces this, I do not think we shut down the run game as effectively as in the past. My perception/expectation is that teams simply abandon trying to run but that did not always happen last year.

 

[mando]

Oh yeah and the thread was actually about Tua, he is the man period. So it is silly to throw doubt on him. Of course you are not going to have the same stats/productivity when you are injured or against these really good defenses with lots of future NFL starts on them.

 

[TUSKtimes]

That's not a lot different than the narrative we've seen pushed about how bad the defense was last season. I have said a few times the entire season is unfairly characterized based on one game. A bad game, no doubt, but still one game.

Consider how often we heard about how good the Oklahoma offense was last year. I don't recall hearing generational talent, like we do Tua, but I do recall hearing people talk about their offense being historically good. And, that's true. Why bring up OU? There's only one team that did better against the Sooners on defense than Bama and that's Army (who coincidentally had the ball in their possession about 80% of that game.

I don't see mention of how well they did against UGA's offense holding them to one score while the offense got their act together. Or, how only one team in the SEC (you've mentioned here) that gave up less than 300 YPG average against SEC competition.

Just to add a stat ... UA went into the NC game ranked #2 in defensive efficiency. That's not a bad defense.

Talent-wise, it wasn't a bad defense. It was a defense that didn't develop as much depth as needed and it was a defense that did not communicate well in making formation adjustment. It was a defense that was left too long on the field. And especially against up-tempo teams, eventually tired out in second halves and at the end of the season.

No one should look at last year's struggles and not see the depth and coaching as an issue. It's the most logical explanation, statistically, why our defense went from #1 in the nation in 2017 to #16 in 2018 when it was all said and done.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

And one other minor point...
Tua and injury prone....
Some 350 pound lineman step your ankle.....
Its going to affect u....
Regardless who u are.....
So I really dont buy the injury "prone" shit either...
Brodie Croyle was injury prone...most every game he was dinged up...college and pro....that’s injury prone

 

[#80]

Two keys for Tua stay healthy and don't hold the ball to long there is away's the next play.

 

[JoshB]

That's not a lot different than the narrative we've seen pushed about how bad the defense was last season. I have said a few times the entire season is unfairly characterized based on one game. A bad game, no doubt, but still one game.

Consider how often we heard about how good the Oklahoma offense was last year. I don't recall hearing generational talent, like we do Tua, but I do recall hearing people talk about their offense being historically good. And, that's true. Why bring up OU? There's only one team that did better against the Sooners on defense than Bama and that's Army (who coincidentally had the ball in their possession about 80% of that game.

I don't see mention of how well they did against UGA's offense holding them to one score while the offense got their act together. Or, how only one team in the SEC (you've mentioned here) that gave up less than 300 YPG average against SEC competition.

Just to add a stat ... UA went into the NC game ranked #2 in defensive efficiency. That's not a bad defense.

I also find it interesting that the same people that propped Murray up for the Heisman used "Tua didn't do as well against top defenses" and how his stats were inflated because of "poor competition" as their reasoning that Murray was better. Now that is the irony of all ironies.

 

[TerryP]

@BamaBoyJosh, it reached a point to where the circular logic was laughable at times. Sad at others. I do believe you're right in the end ... it was all about those 400 more yards passing.

 

[50+yeartidefan]

@BamaBoyJosh, it reached a point to where the circular logic was laughable at times. Sad at others. I do believe you're right in the end ... it was all about those 400 more yards passing.

And tua kinda showed what he could do vs big 12 D....and Ok...