🏈 The continuing rumors of Saban and Texas

Old Timer from TX said:
You make some very valid points, but I'd just like to mention that the overall concensus in Austin is that Saban is as sure of a thing (low-risk) as a program that wants to win can have. To further illustrate my point I would have to address your questions about recruiting, and our sometimes overzealous, and yes nosy big money donors.

You asked whether or not I think that HS recruits would buy into this "cluster-***" situation that is Texas. I do. I realize that Saban isn't going to come over here and magically wave a wand and that tomorrow would be heaven on earth. It's going to be a process, but I really don't think it's going to be a very long process like people think. The talent cupboard at Texas is far from bare. There are already 4 and 5 star studs already in the program underachieving because of poor player development. That changes the second Saban walks through those burnt orange doors.

Secondly, I don't think that any dollar amount is going to just buy any coach. I do, however, think that it is a HUGE determining factor. You ask if a dollar amount is going to tempt a coach into walking into the "cluster-***" situation at Texas? Oh come on. A "cluster-***"? It's not that bad. Yes, it's now big-time headlines sports news, and I will agree that the longer this goes on it doesn't shed a great light on the Texas Football Program. However, its really not that bad. I don't know what the situation looks like outside of Texas, but I don't think its got legs to be a distraction past maybe the next couple of days.
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You're really turning this into what I consider to be a great conversation. I hope you don't take any offense from all of this...just going to say what I believe.

To further illustrate my point I would have to address your questions about recruiting, and our sometimes overzealous, and yes nosy big money donors.
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No semantics here. When have I asked questions about recruiting and TX? I fully understand how lazy Brown has been in his tenure.

That changes the second Saban walks through those burnt orange doors.
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No, it doesn't. It didn't here.

To the crux of the matter:

Yes, it's a cluster-****.

Here sits a board of regents split. You've got a school president being threatened with his job. An AD recently fired...and someone in authority was feeding that to the public instead of handling it as it should have been. A person seeking a new coach for a team with a coach. Hicks, in taking that move, made a move that wasn't even within his authority...but he's got a family member that is authorized?

Do I really need to go on?

How this all ends no one can say. I know what I believe.

One of those beliefs is this...and that will not change. All of you folks in Texas don't know who you are dealing with when it comes to the people you've chosen to poke.

Gotta be lovin' that banquet in Austin tonight...I've got a word for that whole scene.
 
Here's a thought that hasn't been raised yet. Don't you think Saban has the equity, and the good sense to use that equity, to remove a lot of the clusterf***iness as a condition of his employment? Stoops did that at OU, Saban did it at Alabama - though a much lesser extent was all that was required.* I think the BOT would get out of his way for a few years which is probably all he would need to get them into the playoffs and keep folks there happy.**

*One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach. That's the biggest difference in our two programs histories over the last 30 years, IMO.

**Saban isn't enough to lead Texas to a victory over an SEC team in the playoffs. His team might be as talented as any SEC team but it would not be as battle tested. That's the SEC's biggest advantage currently. Again, IMO.

While all of this is fun I'd bet my next paycheck that Saban stays at Alabama.
 
foshman said:
*One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach. That's the biggest difference in our two programs histories over the last 30 years, IMO.

**Saban isn't enough to lead Texas to a victory over an SEC team in the playoffs. His team might be as talented as any SEC team but it would not be as battle tested. That's the SEC's biggest advantage currently. Again, IMO.
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To your first point, Auburn has finally taken a step in the recent past that concerned me and that was shielding itself from Bobby Lowdowner. While he was there, we had Mr. Yella Wood screaming at the coach during a football game against Arkansas. Never seen that before or since at any school. Lowdowner allowed boosters to run amok and I really believe that AU has a lot of that corrected and the results are apparent.

To your second point, I am amazed how fast playing in the SEC has helped the games of both Mizzou and aTm. Outsiders can say all they want that its because the SEC is not as strong as previously thought but I contend the level of play mandated both programs to be galvanized by fire. It took Mizzou a little longer to adjust but boy did they ever? It didn't aTm as long largely because of of Maziel and Sumlin but they learned valuable lessons this year that they will carry forward. When you consider that Texas has their own network but aTm stll managed to draw almost 35 Million more viewers than the Horns, you begin to understand why the Aggies is a very large threat to dethrone Texas as the state football power and that's why the orange faithful are in panic mode.

Great post, foshman.
 
The other question is this...as foshman eluded to, is Texas ready to give complete control over to Saban? Are all the powers to be, with their big oil money willing to shut the !@#$ up and let Coach Saban steer the cattle? They can't shut up long enough to give Coach Mack a proper send off. When we say cluster !@#$, believe me we see it as good as any fanbase there is. Texas has a cluster brewing there, so wave all the money you want, when Coach Saban stays at Bama what do the Texas Oilmen do next? Does the powers to be have a escape plan? Do they put all their eggs in one basket? Trust me when I say this, you all have too many hands in the pot, and thats only one reason why Coach Saban will not be coaching in Texas. Keep waiving the money though, that is your biggest draw, and I dont blame the oilmen of Texas for doing it.
 
I'm too old, like my username says, to really take any offense from the critiques on my posting on here. Its really not a big deal. I look at these sports forums as a big sports bar on wheels. You go into a Sports Bar in New York and start talking smack about the Jets or Giants, even if its in a respectful way, and you get run out of the bar. So, a little bit of no-no comments to me is not that big of a deal.

What I am hearing alot, and its been exemplified by SouthAlabamaJaguars fan foshman, is that "One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach." Well, it just so happens that one of the things that Texas fans and donors do better than any other school is completely interfere and meddle in everything that is going on with the coaching. Its kinda well-known in Austin, and sports radio commentators have commented on it.

The atmosphere that has evolved with Mack and our former AD Deloss Dodds put so much emphasis on granting access to the big money donors, that now it's like those donors are calling the shots. I think that's wrong. Alot of the fans think it is wrong. It just emphasizes the big money donors are the important ones, not the other 100,000 fans. That is an enormous downside to the job for any man, Nick Saban included. Who would want to put up with old farts with money always being nosy and interfering? Well, actually Mack Brown was good at schmoozing the money guys.

Down in Austin, we've referred to our "Good Ole Boy Money Network" and how the entire Arrogance and Entitlement of the Athletic Program is a direct result of this cultural change that we've slowly undergone with Deloss Dodds. When Mack took over, that culture of arrogance, entitlement really took off. I believe it has permeated the football program. Mack is as soft as they come, and his teams have taken his identity. So forgive us, if we are pushing so hard for Saban. He is the anti-Mack.
 
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Old Timer from TX said:
I'm too old, like my username says, to really take any offense from the critiques on my posting on here. Its really not a big deal. I look at these sports forums as a big sports bar on wheels. You go into a Sports Bar in New York and start talking smack about the Jets or Giants, even if its in a respectful way, and you get run out of the bar. So, a little bit of no-no comments to me is not that big of a deal.

What I am hearing alot, and its been exemplified by SouthAlabamaJaguars fan foshman, is that "One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach." Well, it just so happens that one of the things that Texas fans and donors do better than any other school is completely interfere and meddle in everything that is going on with the coaching. Its kinda well-known in Austin, and sports radio commentators have commented on it.

The atmosphere that has evolved with Mack and our former AD Deloss Dodds put so much emphasis on granting access to the big money donors, that now it's like those donors are calling the shots. I think that's wrong. Alot of the fans think it is wrong. It just emphasizes the big money donors are the important ones, not the other 100,000 fans. This is a enormous downside to the job for any man, Nick Saban included. Who would want to put up with old farts with money always being nosy and interfering? Well, actually Mack Brown was good at schmoozing the money guys. Down in Austin, we've referred to our "Good Ole Boy Money Network" and how the entire Arrogance and Entitlement of the Athletic Program is a direct result of this cultural change that we've slowly undergone with Deloss Dodds. When Mack took over, that culture of arrogance, entitlement really took off. I believe it has permeated the football program. Mack is as soft as they come, and his teams have taken his identity. So forgive us, if we are pushing so hard for Saban. He is the total anti-Mack.
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I don't blame Texas for pushing hard, the thing is, money isn't the answer, it is the environment that Texas created that drives the big time coaches away. Coaches like Saban want the higher ups to do their job, the money men to do their job, and let him do his. That is why Texas won't get Saban, and they need to shore that up to get the top coaches there.
You have been tactful and decent with your points old timer, glad you debated, this board needed a little pot stirring just to keep us on our toes. Stick around this sports bar on wheels, I don't see anything you have done as wrong, better yet it has educated me to appreciate what we have even more.
 
Old Timer from TX said:
I'm too old, like my username says, to really take any offense from the critiques on my posting on here. Its really not a big deal. I look at these sports forums as a big sports bar on wheels. You go into a Sports Bar in New York and start talking smack about the Jets or Giants, even if its in a respectful way, and you get run out of the bar. So, a little bit of no-no comments to me is not that big of a deal.

What I am hearing alot, and its been exemplified by SouthAlabamaJaguars fan foshman, is that "One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach." Well, it just so happens that one of the things that Texas fans and donors do better than any other school is completely interfere and meddle in everything that is going on with the coaching. Its kinda well-known in Austin, and sports radio commentators have commented on it.

The atmosphere that has evolved with Mack and our former AD Deloss Dodds put so much emphasis on granting access to the big money donors, that now it's like those donors are calling the shots. I think that's wrong. Alot of the fans think it is wrong. It just emphasizes the big money donors are the important ones, not the other 100,000 fans. That is an enormous downside to the job for any man, Nick Saban included. Who would want to put up with old farts with money always being nosy and interfering? Well, actually Mack Brown was good at schmoozing the money guys.

Down in Austin, we've referred to our "Good Ole Boy Money Network" and how the entire Arrogance and Entitlement of the Athletic Program is a direct result of this cultural change that we've slowly undergone with Deloss Dodds. When Mack took over, that culture of arrogance, entitlement really took off. I believe it has permeated the football program. Mack is as soft as they come, and his teams have taken his identity. So forgive us, if we are pushing so hard for Saban. He is the anti-Mack.
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I fixed it for you! I stated earlier in the week that Coach Saban wouldn't go because it would take him 2-3 years to weed out all of the softness. He may only coach another 6-8 years anyways, so why waste valuable time!!
 
Old Timer from TX said:
I'm too old, like my username says, to really take any offense from the critiques on my posting on here. Its really not a big deal. I look at these sports forums as a big sports bar on wheels. You go into a Sports Bar in New York and start talking smack about the Jets or Giants, even if its in a respectful way, and you get run out of the bar. So, a little bit of no-no comments to me is not that big of a deal.
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I find this funny. I can't tell you how many times I've used the same analogy with the forum here. Some have questioned if the sports bar I hang out at would allow a two or three minute diatribe from me. They do and evidently we hang out in the same type establishments.

Old Timer from TX said:
What I am hearing alot, and its been exemplified by SouthAlabamaJaguars fan foshman, is that "One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach." Well, it just so happens that one of the things that Texas fans and donors do better than any other school is completely interfere and meddle in everything that is going on with the coaching. Its kinda well-known in Austin, and sports radio commentators have commented on it.
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One thing I believe is missed in these discussions with Bama and TX fans is our ability to recognize all of these things you've just mentioned. We've dealt with the same thing. When I made the comparison to a cluster-**** it certainly wasn't pulled out of thin air, it was pulled from recent memory.

Old Timer from TX said:
The atmosphere that has evolved with Mack and our former AD Deloss Dodds put so much emphasis on granting access to the big money donors, that now it's like those donors are calling the shots. I think that's wrong. Alot of the fans think it is wrong. It just emphasizes the big money donors are the important ones, not the other 100,000 fans. That is an enormous downside to the job for any man, Nick Saban included. Who would want to put up with old farts with money always being nosy and interfering? Well, actually Mack Brown was good at schmoozing the money guys.
Click to expand...
Old Timer from TX said:
Down in Austin, we've referred to our "Good Ole Boy Money Network" and how the entire Arrogance and Entitlement of the Athletic Program is a direct result of this cultural change that we've slowly undergone with Deloss Dodds. When Mack took over, that culture of arrogance, entitlement really took off. I believe it has permeated the football program. Mack is as soft as they come, and his teams have taken his identity. So forgive us, if we are pushing so hard for Saban. He is the anti-Mack.
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Personally, there's never been any critical comments about the point TX wanted Saban. The criticism was about the approach. I honestly don't believe the idea that "we can just throw a lot of money at him and he'll come" would be a put off to the Saban's ever crossed the minds of those fueling this story.

Stick around...you seem like the kind of guy that follows more than just TX football...I'm sure you'd fit right in on a lot of discussions here.
 
Old Timer from TX said:
What I am hearing alot, and its been exemplified by SouthAlabamaJaguars fan foshman, is that "One of the things Alabama does better than other schools, certainly Auburn, is not work against their coach." Well, it just so happens that one of the things that Texas fans and donors do better than any other school is completely interfere and meddle in everything that is going on with the coaching. Its kinda well-known in Austin, and sports radio commentators have commented on it.

Down in Austin, we've referred to our "Good Ole Boy Money Network" and how the entire Arrogance and Entitlement of the Athletic Program is a direct result of this cultural change that we've slowly undergone with Deloss Dodds. When Mack took over, that culture of arrogance, entitlement really took off. I believe it has permeated the football program. Mack is as soft as they come, and his teams have taken his identity. So forgive us, if we are pushing so hard for Saban. He is the anti-Mack.
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Don't be fooled. I am an Auburn fan but the admins changed my logo a few years back because Alabama fans hate informed non rednecky Auburn fans. I'm also a South Alum though I attended Auburn in the early 90's.

Also I lived in Austin for 6 years and worked in the oil industry for the first year. I've seen that mentality you speak of first hand. My old boss literally expected Mack brown to see him whenever he desired.

Auburn has too much of that mentality. Being the ignored little brother has made too many of our fans and boosters act like idiots. It's getting better. Slowly.

Alabama and Texas both have the same issues with their fanbases - I would say their fan bases are worse than ours - but our BOT under Lowder was a joke. We almost lost our accreditation because of it.
 
bamafan4ever said:
To your second point, I am amazed how fast playing in the SEC has helped the games of both Mizzou and aTm. Outsiders can say all they want that its because the SEC is not as strong as previously thought but I contend the level of play mandated both programs to be galvanized by fire. It took Mizzou a little longer to adjust but boy did they ever? It didn't aTm as long largely because of of Maziel and Sumlin but they learned valuable lessons this year that they will carry forward. When you consider that Texas has their own network but aTm stll managed to draw almost 35 Million more viewers than the Horns, you begin to understand why the Aggies is a very large threat to dethrone Texas as the state football power and that's why the orange faithful are in panic mode.

Great post, foshman.
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I'm glad you agree. I don't think it's simply a matter of talent. Talented teams lose 4-5 games quite often. It's the mentality of a team that develops over a season of being challenged over and over again by teams with equal or similar depth and talent.

The only place the SEC has a huge advantage in terms of talent is along the defensive line, specifically at DT. In the SEC the best teams almost always have extremely talented defensive lines (even Auburn's line this year is athletic as hell. Certainly more athletic than the non SEC teams save FSU. The difference is that FSU hasn't yet played a team with a line as good as ours that is used to playing against defensive lines as talented as they are.) The most successful SEC teams each season also have an offensive line that plays well enough to handle those defensive lines. I think that is what happened with Missouri and TAM. They had plenty of defensive line talent. It just took better competition for them to really prosper.
 
foshman said:
Don't be fooled. I am an Auburn fan <strike>but the admins</strike> a family member changed my logo a few years back because Alabama fans hate informed non rednecky Auburn fans. I'm also a South Alum though I attended Auburn in the early 90's.

Also I lived in Austin for 6 years and worked in the oil industry for the first year. I've seen that mentality you speak of first hand. My old boss literally expected Mack brown to see him whenever he desired.

Auburn has too much of that mentality. Being the ignored little brother has made too many of our fans and boosters act like idiots. It's getting better. Slowly.

Alabama and Texas both have the same issues with their fanbases - I would say their fan bases are worse than ours - but our BOT under Lowder was a joke. We almost lost our accreditation because of it.
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Fixed this for you! :chat2_mooning:
 
TerryP said:
Really?

You know...may have one day when I...more I think about it. Hrrrm.

Nope. In the end, Bran did it. Yep. That's the story.
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Either way I don't much care. It's been easier to not be caught up in accusations of trolling and goat fucking and hating anything related to Alabama football since it was changed.
 

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