Stand for the Anthem or Stay Off the Field

[JoshB]

while i absolutely HATE when players (or anyone else, for that matter) kneel during our National Anthem as a sign or protest. i also HATE this new rule. kneeling during the National Anthem is a freedom protected under the Bill of Rights in our Constitution. it is considered Freedom of Speech. granted, the protection comes in the form of you are protected from the U.S. government. but i still HATE when companies and organizations punish those for choosing to insert their guaranteed rights. it is appalling and fascist.

again, i do no agree with the players kneeling during the National Anthem, but i will defend their right to do so. wake up NFL owners/commissioner, you're not as powerful as you think you are.

It's not a free speech issue. Players are employees, fulfilling the responsibilities for which they are hired, and they are required to follow the work rules and policies set forth by their employers. Being televised while performing your job doesn't change that absolute.

RTR,

Tim

See, that's where you're wrong. NFL players have a CBA, no where in that CBA does it state that the players have to do anything during the anthem. Period. By making ANY rule the NFL has unilaterally changed that agreement and if the NFLPA wanted to fight it, it could get ugly. It's also why the NFL put in the rule that TEAMS, not players, will be fined if a player kneels. They literally CAN'T fine a player for that. Now, can an NFL team just fire a player for kneeling? Probably but what NFL owner is dumb enough to do that at this point? Probably more likely if its the third string outside linebacker than if JJ Watt does it, though.

To be clear, I didn't mention collective bargaining. I said it's not protected free speech. However, since you mention collective bargaining, it's only fair to tell you a CBA does not cover all work conduct, rules and policies. That's with any industry. The article above states such when it notes, "The anthem policy will be part of the NFL's game operations manual and thus not subject to collective bargaining." You're right, the union probably will contest it, but the operations manual is an example of something outside a CBA.

You may not like, and you can rant about it, but facts are facts.

RTR,

Tim

Dude, i understand you dont like me and you want to be a jerk at all times but I wasn't ranting about anything. I brought up the CBA because that's what the NFLPA is likely going to cite, because the NFLPA is supposed to have some say (and the owners) in any rules changes, especially with fines. They are trying to skirt it by saying the NFL is just going to fine the teams. But if you want me to rant, I can go off about the presidents collusion and interference in all of this if you want me to? THAT I will rant about.

I don't even know you. Before today, have I even responded to a post of yours? I said it's not free speech, and you told me I was wrong because of a CBA, and you went off on a bonus Trump tangent. CBA's are not all encompassing, and the ops manual shows that. That's all. The players are private employees subject to rules of conduct set by their employers.

Trump is an indefensible dolt. Save your time typing.

RTR,

Tim

I used to be Birdman...

 

[JoshB]

ok, not free speech; but a form of protest. and that is included in the first amendment, as well. so i was wrong there.

and again, yes those amendments protect you from the government...but i still don't think it's right that they be punished by their employer for practicing those rights.
if the company i worked for told me i was required to stand/kneel/do jumping jacks/whatever, during the national anthem, and it was different than what i wanted to do, would they then have recourse to terminate me? in all honestly, i don't know. i would hope they wouldn't; but they may have a just reason to do so.

but i'd still make the same argument about it. i don't think they should be allowed to punish the players for exercising their 1st amendment rights. yes, legally, they may be able to do just that...but that doesn't make it right.

I do agree. And when all else fails some folks will just have to have enough resolve to stick to their conscientious convictions and be willing to pay the price and go it alone.

Yesterday a supreme court case ruled that a cake baker had the right to not make a wedding cake for 2 homosexuals. How did it get that far? Definitions of right and wrong keep changing with society over time. It's always been kinda scary when the supreme court or any court of government is asked to intervene on matters of the conscious.

Because people think we can legislate things like morals when you really can't. I think it should be 100% legal for anyone that owns a private business to refuse service to anyone they want, but you need to have your reasonings posted. Dont wanna serve blacks? Cool, post it. Dont wanna serve gays? Cool, post it. Lets see how many of these people have the guts to do it and how many can even keep their businesses open after that.

 

[TUSKtimes]

Because people think we can legislate things like morals when you really can't. I think it should be 100% legal for anyone that owns a private business to refuse service to anyone they want, but you need to have your reasonings posted. Dont wanna serve blacks? Cool, post it. Dont wanna serve gays? Cool, post it. Lets see how many of these people have the guts to do it and how many can even keep their businesses open after that.

A conscientious position has to be held to a high moral standard. Seems fair and in compliance with my point. But that posted list could get really long. Dear customers: We don't make cakes with satanic images on it. Please don't ask, we don't put swastikas on our cakes. Just saying, could be a long list.

 

[sean]

I understand where you're coming from, but the employer has the right and discretion to limit your protests when you are on duty. For example, let's say you are an advocate for the legalization of something, let's say pot, and you want to wear your "Legalize Pot Now!" T-shirt while you are making house calls as a service technician for a HVAC/pest control/plumber/etc. as a form of protest. The First Amendment protects your right to wear that shirt after hours (or any other shirt - Black/Blue Lives Matter, etc.), but not while you're on duty.

which is crazy, in my opinion. no employer should be allowed to keep you from exercising your rights, any of them, at any time. now should they be allowed to reprimand you, if you do.

 

[ElephantStomp]

[BGCOLOR=transparent]I don’t agree with the protesting the flag thing in the least bit there many many people that went to foreign countries, got their hands dirty, and paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedoms and rights. [/BGCOLOR]

While good ol Roger and the owners are making rules for the players during the anthem they better make one for fans too. People walk around the concourse, stand around bullshitting, etc.

 

[JoshB]

[BGCOLOR=transparent]I don’t agree with the protesting the flag thing in the least bit there many many people that went to foreign countries, got their hands dirty, and paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedoms and rights. [/BGCOLOR]

While good ol Roger and the owners are making rules for the players during the anthem they better make one for fans too. People walk around the concourse, stand around bullshitting, etc.

Last year I was looking down from the press box and I counted at least a dozen people/families that were sitting down and DOZENS more playing on their phones, walking around or talking. Those people were of literally all age and race. I almost took pictures and posted it online but Im sure that would have not gone over well. It's only an outrage because people turned it into one.