🏈 Problem in the running game...

jdpas29

jdpas29

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Before i get flamed, i know that statistically the running game in 2014 was pretty good. But it seemed like many times when we needed just that little something extra to get the 1st down we couldn't get it.

Losing TJ is a big deal with Henry being the heir apparent. I like Derrick Henry but i'm not sure if his style of running is going to work as a 1st and 2nd down back with our O-line blocking the way they are. I feel like he needs either different timing for the holes to open up or bigger holes to run through. He takes a bit longer to get to his top speed and this is why, IMO, he has so much success with outside running where he takes the corner and gradually turns upfield.

We don't know if Drake will really be able to return to form and I don't think anyone is under the assumption that he is going to be our 1st and 2nd down back.

Tyren Jones may not play another down if he doesn't fix his craniorectal insertion disorder.

Behind him we have a lot of frosh which, to me, spells a problem for blocking in the passing game.

---- It strikes me that after years of being stacked at this position, we are potentially quite thin coming up in 2015. With an unproven QB coming in no matter which one it is, I'm a bit concerned about this offensive unit next year.

---- On a side note, if i was a trainer, i would make Derrick Henry do plyometrics and karate or something for the entire off season. Needs more agility to go with that big-ass frame. Don't get me wrong. He's awesome. I just really want him to work out at the RB positions and to be the 1,2 down guy.
 
jdpas29 said:
craniorectal insertion
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Inversion, perhaps? Intrusion, I've seen. And I digress thinking about the urban-English language...

FWIW, did you know that last years third down conversion percentage was the highest we've had in Saban's tenure here?

My questions don't really involve the backfield, more the line, but in the end we're looking at the same thing as a question mark. What I find notable is the conversations tend to revolve around frosh and sophomores more than third and fourth year guys. Which, tells me, that Stoutland wasn't the best at one of two things (if not both;) evals and development.
 
i think we can credit Blake Sims and TJ for the vast majority of those conversions, but no i didn't know that. Blake saved us time and time on 3rd.

It seems to me that over the last 2-3 years line blocking for the passing game has gotten better every year with the opposite occurrence in the running game.
 
jdpas29 said:
Before i get flamed, i know that statistically the running game in 2014 was pretty good. But it seemed like many times when we needed just that little something extra to get the 1st down we couldn't get it.

Losing TJ is a big deal with Henry being the heir apparent. I like Derrick Henry but i'm not sure if his style of running is going to work as a 1st and 2nd down back with our O-line blocking the way they are. I feel like he needs either different timing for the holes to open up or bigger holes to run through. He takes a bit longer to get to his top speed and this is why, IMO, he has so much success with outside running where he takes the corner and gradually turns upfield.

We don't know if Drake will really be able to return to form and I don't think anyone is under the assumption that he is going to be our 1st and 2nd down back.

Tyren Jones may not play another down if he doesn't fix his craniorectal insertion disorder.

Behind him we have a lot of frosh which, to me, spells a problem for blocking in the passing game.

---- It strikes me that after years of being stacked at this position, we are potentially quite thin coming up in 2015. With an unproven QB coming in no matter which one it is, I'm a bit concerned about this offensive unit next year.

---- On a side note, if i was a trainer, i would make Derrick Henry do plyometrics and karate or something for the entire off season. Needs more agility to go with that big-ass frame. Don't get me wrong. He's awesome. I just really want him to work out at the RB positions and to be the 1,2 down guy.
Click to expand...

Everything you said about Henry is true. He is so big it is tougher for him to get through the line without being tripped up. His top end speed takes about five good steps to get going, BUT, when he gets those you better watch out. His outside running and screens is where his money is.

Drake can be a second and third down back because he's not scared to lower his pad level and stick it up in there. His value though is making a guy miss in space. He can fill Yeldon's roll more than he's given credit for. Yeldon was a great back, one that you wish could stay forever because he'll get you 4-5 every carry. He was my favorite, but Drake can be our X-Factor. Scarborough has a semester under his belt to get stronger and will have all of Spring and Summer camp to grasp some aspect of the playbook where he can be used. We'll be fine at running back. When all else fails, let Kiffin do his thing, because he can move guys around and get the ball anywhere he wants.
 
jdpas29 said:
i think we can credit Blake Sims and TJ for the vast majority of those conversions, but no i didn't know that. Blake saved us time and time on 3rd.
Click to expand...
I ran across an article last night talking about this...wanna say it was on 247, but I'd have to go look to be sure. It mirrored what I've been thinking about this fall and echoed what you're saying here a well. I'll see if I can find it...
 
I wonder what the percentage of 3rd down calls on less than 5 yds was a run play as opposed to a pass. I can recall multiple times where we threw quick routes or screens out to Amari and others when I was wanting to cram it down the D's throat!!
 
@uagrad93 I may be wrong here but it seems like that might have been one of the things DC Reeves broke down a month or so ago.

The numbers, as I recall, showed we passed the ball more on third down but not by a large margin: 90 to 109 or something along those lines. On third and short I recall we ran the ball about two and a half more times than passing...

I'd have to go break down the numbers and the CFB database I go to often isn't responsive...makes it a bit of a bitch to work through.
 
Yes, I believe many of our third down conversions, although impressive in rate, were more dependent on a pass or scramble. As opposed to a short yardage, relatively high percentage run, I was holding my breath many times waiting to see if a receiver, usually Cooper, held on to the slant or quick out. Also, in regard to our blocking in general, we took a step backwards. The only reason the pass blocking looked better is because Sims eluded guys coming free many times. Would not have happened that way with any other QB we've played in some time.

As to the original question, I believe we have the potential to lack depth at RB, particularly if Henry gets dinged up again or Drake doesn't make it all the way back. That being said, two of our new backs look to be plug and play ready (not withstanding the pass blocking hurdle). Henry has to pick up his pass blocking - bringing Yeldon in, hurt, to pass block became too much of a tell on play calling last year.

I have faith that the O line will be much improved in the run game this year. Time will tell.

RTR,

Tim
 
uagrad93 said:
^^ DC put out several articles with the breakdown. It just seemed like 3rd and 3 or less, we were chucking it around more than running it.
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A case of what you were wanting to see versus what you saw when it was needed?

That perception versus reality thing hit home, A LOT, this past season.
 
TerryP said:
A case of what you were wanting to see versus what you saw when it was needed?

That perception versus reality thing hit home, A LOT, this past season.
Click to expand...

I always tend to go back to my upbringing when it comes to calling plays. 1st and 10 run or pass; 2nd and short play action deep; 3rd and short- run the ball for 1st down.
 
I've always felt that Henry has never possessed the physicality commensurate with his size. I've seen him get literally blown up in pass protection by oncoming LBs and DBs. Just looking at him, you'll notice he is long-limbed, which supports what has already been said about his acceleration, or lack thereof. To me, his lower body has always looked underdeveloped for a RB, even after accounting for the length of his legs.

Seems like to me, unless he strengthens his base and becomes more physical inside the tackles, his utility will be limited.
 
@musso, I would have to agree with you. He does seem to have the legs of an endurance runner than the build of a RB. We used to say a guy like him had "bird legs". He doesn't possess that big ass and thick thighs that you would expect from RBs. He is going to have to learn to drop his hips and explode into a LB or he will continue to get lit up in pass pro.
 
Yea, when watching him run, I always think of former Oh St RB turned ESPN commentator Robert Smith. I think he later played for the Vikings. Similar build and running style. Problem is, players are too fast today for that kind of runner to thrive. You now must have the rare explosion and physicality of an Adrian Peterson if you want to succeed at RB at that size.
 
If Henry were built more like Ingram or Richardson, shorter in stature, this wouldn't be a problem. The kid has some wheels though. I don't think he can hit it between the tackles for 3-4 yds when it comes "nut cutting time" though. Henry excels on the edge with the outside zone and sweeps.
 
uagrad93 said:
If Henry were built more like Ingram or Richardson, shorter in stature, this wouldn't be a problem. The kid has some wheels though. I don't think he can hit it between the tackles for 3-4 yds when it comes "nut cutting time" though. Henry excels on the edge with the outside zone and sweeps.
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I agree he doesn't possess an explosive first step or a wicked lateral move, but he's done a good bit of damage between the tackles.

As to the "bird legs" allegation from an earlier post, his thigh measurement may not be of the Newhouse or Dupree variety, but he's well built. He should do very well this year.

RTR,

Tim
 
musso said:
I've always felt that Henry has never possessed the physicality commensurate with his size. I've seen him get literally blown up in pass protection by oncoming LBs and DBs. Just looking at him, you'll notice he is long-limbed, which supports what has already been said about his acceleration, or lack thereof. To me, his lower body has always looked underdeveloped for a RB, even after accounting for the length of his legs.

Seems like to me, unless he strengthens his base and becomes more physical inside the tackles, his utility will be limited.
Click to expand...

I agree he's proven to be a liability pass blocking, but that's a factor of knowing assignments, recognition, leverage AND desire. Hopefully he'll develop in this area.

RTR,

Tim
 

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